Battle Fantasia: Combos, Strategy, Discussion

[Elochai]

AJOH (Ashley) vs Lotus (Ashley):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEQSd35GBjs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TC1dhtxqOU

Glad that this game is still getting played overseas!

[jinxhand]

Does anyone know if Machida Don still plays this game??? He was a really good Donvalve player who made Ashely players seem low tier.

[jinxhand]

***NEW UPDATED INFO***

Copied from my Dustloop post:

People continue to fear Ashely mixups that lead into strong combos... Sure, he has j2C, and 623B which is safe on block, but the one thing that makes them weak is the fact that they're moves that hit only once... The same thing goes for jB. Tons of Ashley players do it, but no one ever takes the time to stop them. A simple gachi attempt allows you to not only stop the move in its tracks, but you can possibly convert that into a strong g-counter move. Below is a list of the things that each character can do against these jump-ins that Ashely players abuse constantly.

Note: I don't recommend doing a 6G, and here's the explanation behind that. Ashley can easily do j.2C like a madman. What makes it even more dangerous is that there is a chance that this move can force a "safe gachi" scenario in where you can 6G the move, but because it's so low to the ground, and Ashley having the frame advantage (at least +1), he can land and block in enough time before the full 6G animation completes, putting you in a punishable position. This still isn't a reason to fear this setup. Ashley players can spam this move as long as they want. Just keep an eye out on how low this move is done, and you can use the options listed to punish.

Most players can easily get overwhelmed by Ashley's speed and mixup potential which reminds me of the threat that Gallon/Talbain poses in VSav. Trust me, Ashley is beatable!!! I've seen the whole cast take out Ashley, even Watson and Olivia players.

Anyway, here's the list:

 

Urs:

     - 5A: As simple as this move is, it is very essential in Urs' close up game. After a good 5G, Urs can easily go into this fast move that allows him to utilize his fireball game, or just simply dash in and throw.

     - 2C: This is probably the quickest response after a successful 5G. The plus side is that you can use 2C~236A/C as a frame trap.

     - 623A/C: Does more damage, and pushes opponent to the corner more than 2C, but you lose out on oki options. If the opponent techs, they create a bigger gap, but that can be fixed with just dashing in. If desired, Urs can Heat buffer 623A/C and force a hard knockdown.

     - 236236B/D: If Urs 5Gs Ashley's j2C low enough, Urs can do massive damage with this super.

 

Marco:

     - 2C: Marco's 2C works different than Urs' 2C, in that the hit box and applications vary. Whereas Urs can go into fireball traps from close range, Marco can use his 2C to AA and then go for mixups instead. From my personal experience, his fireballs are a bit too fast to force a fireball trap (maybe 236A would work depending on the distance). Instead, doing 214[b/D] or not canceling the move out and letting it hit might fair out to be useful vs Ashley. If Marco is in Heat Mode, then his mixup potential increases with 236A/C and 236B/D. Ashley's only real AA options are 5A, 5C, and a very range-dependant 5D-- none of these are going to necessarily stop Marco's dragon mixups.

     - c.5C: Marco's headbutt, if close, can do a somewhat substantial amount of damage. This move does not produce a knockdown at all, so expect Ashley to either face a mixup, or for him to attempt restoring that lost momentum with his own rushdown.

     - 623A/C: Marco's dps prove to be just as good as Urs'. I'd only recommend using 623A, as he recovers faster, and mixups can be applied shortly afterwards.

     - Any super: Both of Marco's supers provide some form of AA for him. I personally prefer 236236B/D, as it has a better chance of hitting completely since it's only 2 hits, and eliminates the chance of Ashley teching due to some whiffed attacks.

 

Cedric:

     ***Note: Cedric doesn't necessarily have to rely on 5G alone vs Ashley. If he has meter, 236236B/D can be used.***

     - 2C: This works like Marco's 2C, except it has a wider hitbox, and Cedric can't really cancel into anything from this move. The plus side to this is that Ashley would be forced to deal with an upcoming fireball, giving Cedric many A2A or AA options. There are ground options as well, which include gachi baits, where if Ashley gachis a fireball, Cedric is still in range for a 5C to connect, or he can just get in close, and disrupt future gachi attempts with 236236A/C. Any of these situations give Cedric the chance to also rely on his super counter 236236B/D.

     - 5C: This does everything that 2C does, except its slightly slower, but gives Cedric better (read quicker) fireball options.

     - [2]8B/D: The good ole' flash kick. There's really not much that needs to be said here. Just keep in mind the charge timing after doing a standing 5G.

     - 236236A/C: This super can actually push the opponent to the corner depending on the distance. Cedric would have to dash a bit to close the gap and apply pressure.

 

Ashley:

     - 5A: An easy answer to a somewhat easy gachi. This can put you in position to attempt 214B/D, or dash in for the other command grab.

     - 5C: This is actually better than 5A in terms of damage. Ashley somewhat loses out in mixup potential unlike 5A, but he still has strong options afterward...

     - 5D: Works the same way that 5C does, except the hitbox is bigger.

     - 236236B/D: Easy damage. Don't worry about losing meter, as you can build it right back up.

     -Heat Mode combo: If you guess right, Ashley can 5G~Heat and do the "236A, 236B, 236C" combo. Depending on how low "enemy Ashley" is after getting 5G'd may force you to modify the combo a bit (i.e. Heat, 236B, j.236B, land, 236A, etc").

 

Olivia:

     - c.5C: This move doesn't really give many great options, but the damage is good enough to mention.

     - 5C: Same thing applies here. Nothing really special other than damage.

     - 5D: Using this move actually pops the opponent high enough for Olivia to dash in and attempt command grab setups. This by far is her best option.

     -623A/C: Space dependent, but still worth it at times. You have better moves which produce better results though.

     -214214A/C: Decent damage. That's about it...

 

Watson:

     - 2C: Watson can use this in conjunction with bear traps or fireballs if he's at least level 2 or 3. This also helps him level up.

     - 236236A/C: Quick and easy damage. Doesn't produce any real oki options though.
     - 2369B/D: If you're quick enough, you can TK the j.236B/D and force a knockdown with the D version.
     - 2147B/D*: I'm in the process of testing this out, but if 2369B/D can work, this might as well, giving Watson the ability to force position changing--- This will help Watson get out of corners easily.

 

Freed:

     - 5A: Freed actually benefits from this simply becuase of his playstyle, especially when he's in Heat Mode, as his mixups becomes ridiculous at that point.

     - [2]8A/C: Quick and easy damage but no real mixup potential.

     - [4]6A/C: Range dependant punish, but it has some uses.

     - Any super: Any of Freed's supers make great punishes. His 236236B/D is the best option in my personal opinion.

 

Donvalve:

     -5A: Decent punish, but no real momentum gained from this. 5C or 2C can be used afterwards to push to the corner.

     -4C: Guile uppercut. Need I say more.

     -5D: Donvalve's "hip thrust" move can be cancelled into either 41236B (hammer) or 412363D (grab). His hammer attack is great against players that like to jump back, or if Ashley decides to 623B/D after landing in this particular situation.

     -236236B/D: Air grab... Best and only AA grab that does massive damage. Doesn't count as a g-counter move though.

 

Coyori:

     -5A: Coyori's 5A isn't as great as some of the other characters in terms of strength, but given her moveset, she has great opportunities to start her mixup game, which is where she shines.

     -623B/D: Easy shoryuken move. Use the 6D follow up to force a hard knockdown.

     -236236B/D: Same concept as 623B/D, but mash B and D to get extra hits.

 

Face:

     -5A: Same concept as Freed's 5A.

     -2C: Works as a good AA that allows cancelling into specials

     -623B/D: TEXAS KNEE!!! The D version does a hard knockdown, and has a shorter distance (and an apparently shorter hitbox than the B version).

     -236236A/C: Wilderness Cannon can close out the match quickly in this scenario, as it does a good load of damage on g-counter. I would use this over Face's 236236B/D super, as that one tends to miss 50% if not all of the hits. Plus the recovery isn't too great imo.

 

Deathbringer:

     -5A: Another universal tool most characters have as an option after 5G'ing Ashley's j2C.

     -5C: Good due to range. A bit slower than 5A, but compensates with more damage, which is what you want. Pushes farther back, too.

     -6C: Forces knockdown, and gives Deathbringer a chance to charge.

     -5D: Again, good in terms of range. The great thing about it is that this move pushes the opponent quite far. Loses in oki, but can charge to strengthen specials.

     -623A/C: Great damage. If Deathbringer is charged, he can cancel into his super. Not sure if it can combo at this point, but I will be testing this.

    

Odile&Dokurod:

      ***She's literally the same as Olivia, except you can jump and do her air super (j236236B/D). Jump buffering is required for the super to be effective. There might be a chance that 214B/D would work as another option, which would be good for position changing.

 

 

This is all subject to get more info added to, so stay tuned.

[Keo-bas]

wow jinx grinding this game hard. making me wish I could play this game with people.

 

Also to comment on BF blunder....well I think majority of it was timing. It was contending with little to much game imo. Also Battle fantasia aesthetic is an acquire tast. Even though I adore the characters, every thing else about the Battle fantasia ( outside of gameplay) is forgettable. In fact the only music that catches me is the character select. (not to say the music is bad)

[jinxhand]

wow jinx grinding this game hard. making me wish I could play this game with people.

 

Also to comment on BF blunder....well I think majority of it was timing. It was contending with little to much game imo. Also Battle fantasia aesthetic is an acquire tast. Even though I adore the characters, every thing else about the Battle fantasia ( outside of gameplay) is forgettable. In fact the only music that catches me is the character select. (not to say the music is bad)

 

I agree... Honestly, my favorite songs are Donvalve's theme and Dynakid's theme. Whenever I do play the game in a "foreign" environment, I do get some people interested in the game, even if only for a few mins... 

 

On a sidebar, I need to start working on hitboxes in the game... Anyone know a decent program that can help me out with that???

[jinxhand]

Recent matches posted on Twitter by ReXXXSoprano!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib1ses3Wdj4

[jinxhand]

***Post #528 Updated***

 

Full explanation on why it's not good to 6G Ashley's j.2C. A few extra options for some characters added.

 

Best chars w/ options imo are Urs, Marco, Face, and DB... 

[jinxhand]

New Battle Fantasia Tier List (as of 2013). This is based off the Nesica version which is basically the console version...:

 

S-Class: Face, Ashley

Class A: Freed, Cedric, Coyori

Class B: Marco, Deathbringer, Dovalve

Class C: Olivia, Watson, Odile, Urs

 

Source: Battle Fantasia wiki: http://seesaawiki.jp/w/fujipyon/d/%a5%ad%a5%e3%a5%e9%a5%e9%a5%f3%a5%af

 

***It's in Japanese***

 

I don't totally agree with this tier list, as I feel Cedric is at the minimum A+, and Watson is definitely stronger than Donvalve, but this is my opinion...  

There's matchup information as well...

Here's the matchup chart...

       FA    AS    FR    CE    CO    MA    DE    DO    OL    WA    OD    UR    TOTAL
FA    ★    5.5    6.0    5.5    6.0    5.5    5.5    6.0    5.5    6.0    6.0    6.0    63.5
AS    4.5    ★    5.0    6.0    5.5    6.0    6.5    4.5    6.0    6.0    6.0    5.5    61.5
FR    4.0    5.0    ★    4.5    5.0    4.5    7.0    5.0    6.0    5.0    7.0    5.5    58.5
CE    4.5    4.0    5.5    ★    5.0    5.5    5.0    5.5    6.0    6.0    6.0    5.5    58.5
CO    4.0    4.5    5.0    5.0    ★    5.5    6.0    5.5    5.0    5.5    5.5    6.0    57.5
MA    4.5    4.0    5.5    4.5    4.5    ★    4.0    5.0    5.0    6.0    5.5    5.5    54.0
DE    4.5    3.5    3.0    5.0    4.0    6.0    ★    6.0    6.0    4.5    5.5    6.0    54.0
DO    4.0    5.5    5.0    4.5    4.5    5.0    4.0    ★    6.0    4.5    4.5    6.0    53.5
OL    4.5    4.0    4.0    4.0    5.0    5.0    4.0    4.0    ★    6.0    5.5    5.0    51.0
WA    4.0    4.0    5.0    4.0    4.5    4.0    5.5    5.5    4.0    ★    3.5    6.0    50.0
OD    4.0    4.0    3.0    4.0    4.5    4.5    4.5    5.5    4.5    6.5    ★    4.5    49.5
UR    4.0    4.5    4.5    4.5    4.0    4.5    4.0    4.0    5.0    4.0    5.5    ★    48.5

[Skankin Garbage]

I've been learning this game with Jinxhand, and when I told him that I made a variety of notes on Odile for personal use, he encouraged me to post them. So, I cleaned them up a bit, and here they are:

 

 

Odile & Darkrod: Practical vs. Fantastical - Tips from one new player to another

I've begun learning Battle Fantasia lately. One of the hurdles I keep running into as I learn Battle Fantasia is that it certainly feels likeyou can do anything. A lot of crazy cancels/combos are technically possible, and then you add in all the possibilities that are opened upwith Heat Up modes and Gachi Drives. I'm making this short guide to list some things that, to me, seem like good practical knowledge (andcombos) to know.



A. Things you need to understand about Odile


1. Your special moves are unsafe on block, except fireballs. 214A/C and 214B/D are both asking to be punished on block. J.2B/D is -0 frames on block at best, and you probably won't get the best-case scenario.

2. Your 2B can be kara-canceled all day. You can (and should) use this to control space by throwing 2Bs outside of its attack range and kara-cancelling into 236A/C for pressure/keep-away, or even just not kara-cancelling it if they think they are smart and try to jump over your fireball. Likewise, if it connects, you can just chain it into 5C before cancelling it into the special move of your choice (usually 214A/C).

3. 5C is your best friend ever. The reason being, if you connect 5C - blocked or hit - you have basically until the end of the decade to cancel it into a special move. You can use this outrageous amount of time to hit-confirm it into 214A/C, or block-confirm it into 236A/C (standard cancel) or 214B/D (if you think they aren't paying attention). This is also extremely important, because - remember Thing To Know #1 - your special moves are easily punishable on block. Do everything you can to not make a habit out of cancelling 5C into a special move
without hit-confirming!

4. Your only good anti-air from the ground is 5D. You can jump cancel this into a super if you like, or juggle one hit of anything else: j.C for knockdown, j.D for reset, especially cos j.D can be cancelled into 2D Drill to land quickly. (P.S: Resetting with Odile is for suckers)

Basically, resist the urge to spam special moves in close range, as they are not as safe as they look. Instead, feel the situation out with her amazing normals, 2B and 5C. In general, cancel the normals into 236A/C if your normals were blocked, and cancel into 214A/C if the moves connect (2B xx 214A/C does not combo; you'll need to connect a 5C to combo into it). Cancelling into 214B/D is your audible, and should be used when you think it will connect - NOT as high/low pressure.


B. (2B kara-cancelled into) Fireball Game

When cancelling into 236+P, the button you use determines a few things. 236C is your variational fireball, and should be used to deter an opponent from jumping (or to catch them jumping). 236A, on the other hand, is much slower. It will allow you to continue ground pressure in different ways, such as immediately doing whiffed 5B xx 236+P again, or at certain ranges, you can even move in and do 5C. If you combo 236A into 5C, any followup will do an outrageous amount of damage, because you're avoided damage proration from comboing with a low attack. This is a good thing to fish for.

As is the case with any fireball game, your goal is not just to keep them out (because reasonably, you won't be able to keep them out forever), but to gauge how your opponent reacts and use that to find out where their focus is. Is your opponent trying to gain ground after a blocked/gachi'd fireball? You can throw a 214A/C to punish gachi or even hit them as they move in. If your opponent trying to read a fireball to jump over them? That's when you don't throw a fireball at all, opting just to whiff a 2B and anti-air/dash under. Is your opponent waiting for you to rush in? Joke's on them, keep throwing fireballs. Is your opponent trying to close in very slowly? Dash in and either do an overhead or a sweep.


C. "What if I cancel into a special move and it's blocked?"

Naturally, this isn't an issue with 236+P, since it's a safe pressure tool. If you cancel into a blocked 214+K, you're in a spot of trouble; but, you knew that already - you can't combo into it, so it's naturally a high risk/high reward maneuver.

If you cancel into a blocked 214+P, however, you can jump cancel. This is going to largely depend on your opponent's character, how experienced your opponent is, and how prepared they are. But, the short version is:

1. If you don't think your opponent is paying attention, or if you think they are inexperienced, you can jump cancel and immediately do the 2D Drill Kick for pressure. For the best results, try to jump straight up; the farther away you are from your opponent if your Drill is blocked, the better.

2. If you think your opponent is more experienced, you need to jump back, hit j.B, and hope for the best.

 

3. If you wanna really try and surprise them, you could jump up and do 236236+K, but don't come crying to me if it doesn't work!

The long and short of it, though, is that you're in trouble. This section is about how to make the best of a bad situation...but try not to get into this situation in the first place.




D. The Zone

Most characters in fighting games have a certain, optimal distance that they like to play their neutral game from. In Odile's case, she can play decently from as far as full-screen, but her optimal distance - matchup permitting - is about a half-screen distance away. If you want to get an idea of exactly where, find the distance where you can do this: 236A, Dash toward your opponent, 5C for a 2-hit combo. If you're too close, you won't be able to 5C before the fireball hits your opponent. If you're too far away, your opponent will be knocked out of range of your 5C by the fireball. In-between these ranges is what you want.

This is important for a lot of reasons. For one, it doesn't give your opponent a lot of time to react between 236A or 236C, which will get you at least a little bit of damage. For two, when you dash in, you now have a huge mixup between trying to combo your fireball into 5C, doing a sweep, doing an overhead, or doing 214A/C (to punish Gachi attempts). And, finally, it's an easy place to react to jump-ins in any way you choose: 5D, any jumping anti-air, or dashing under your opponent.



E. The chains


(For reference, with combo notation, I find it much easier to read by using uppercase letters for standing attacks and lowercase for crouching attacks. If anyone really minds, I can try and write it both ways.)

Odile has three important chain combos, but they are all built on {bC}. Here's the flowchart, if it's helpful for anyone:

(a/B ->) b -> C

Basically, {bC} is the basic foundation of the chain, but you have two additional starters: {a}, and {B}. What's the difference between all of these?

1. bC - This is your go-to chain combo. 2B is valuable already for its kara-cancelling potential which I've detailed above, so you'll probably be using it often already. From there, it's easy to just gauge when your opponent is in range, and tack a 5C onto it. The OTHER reason it's important - and this is worth remembering - 2B is the only way she can start a chain with a low. This makes is the most valuable chain by far. The other two are for very specific things.


2. abC - This chain does more damage than {bC}, but it doesn't start low. The purpose of this chain is that her 2A is tied for the fastest startup of all her attacks. It's a way of punishing holes in your opponent's offense, while converting it into as much damage as possible, and of course, a turnover of the offense advantage into your favor.


3. BbC - This chain does the most damage the three chains...and, in fact, that's basically the only purpose for this chain. If your opponent whiffs something and lands close to you, do this combo.


4. aabC - This is the most damaging chain combo, but I strongly recommend against doing it in most situations. The principal reason being, if you're even slightly out of point-blank range, there's a good chance that the 5C will whiff. Its sole importance is punishing opponents that land right on top of you.




F. Using Divertissement (effectively)

Divertissement (214214A/C super) is primarily for punishing. It does 25% damage on a member of the cast with average stamina (Marco, Odile, Cedric, Ashley, Olivia). If your first instinct is to make combos that use Divertissement, I advise against it. A vast majority of combos that end in Divertissement actually do less damage than if you simply did the move by itself...quite often, significantly less. Here's a list of every combo I've found that actually does more damage than just simply using Divertissement. If you don't see it listed here...well, it doesn't do enough damage to be worth doing.


1. j.D xx D Drill \/ C xx Divertissement

- Actually, just about any jump-in combo using j.C or j.D will work; this one just does the most damage.

2. (Corner variation of the above combo) j.D xx D Drill \/ C xx 214C, Divertissement

You're basically doing a combo into 214C in the corner, and juggling them with Divertissement. The timing is fairly strict.

3. C xx Divertissement

- ...Yeah. Comboing into this super is for suckers. If you add even one more attack to that, it's prorated to lower than the base damage of the super itself.

2. (Corner variation of the above combo) C xx 214C, Divertissement

- ...You get the idea. 5C into super, jump-in into 5C into super, or 214C in the corner and juggle with super. Otherwise, just use it for punishes.




G. Using Grand Pirouette Effectively

Unlike her other super, this move rules. Grand Pirouette is a two-part super. The first part is the "impact", which triggers the second part of the super if it hits. The impact can be Gachi'd. The second part of the super is the "drill". This is the majority of the damage, of course. Depending on your height (or your opponent's height, if they are airborne), the amount of hits you get from the drill will vary. (For reference, the maximum amount of hits you can get from the drill on a grounded opponent is 14, for a total combo of 15 hits).

This combo does about 26% damage to a grounded opponent with average stamina. You can potentially get an outrageous amount of damage - about 35% damage to an airborne opponent with average stamina - if you hit them while airborne at maximum height. But, that's an incredibly unlikely scenario. So, our goal is to do better damage than the ground version. This, is much easier to do than with Divertissement.

There's actually not a whole lot to comboing into Grand Pirouette - unlike Divertissement, it's virtually impossible to get lower damage than the super itself. So, let make take a few sentences to say, this move is still an excellent punish. If you read a fireball or any "random" attack from far away, jump into the air and super. Pirouettes are for pleasure.

Comboing into Grand Pirouette is simple:

1. Do any chain combo you like. You can even begin with a jump-in, a jump-in cancelled into a drill, or even 214B cancelled into a drill.

2. Cancel the chain into 214C.

3. Jump-cancel the 214C and do Grand Pirouette.

Congrats, you now know 99% of the worthwhile Grand Pirouette combos. The only other one not covered by those steps is this one:

- 236A, (dash in) C xx 214C /\ Grand Pirouette

That combo actually does the most damage, but it's spacing-dependent and requires your opponent to mess up pretty badly. Nonetheless, our neutral game DOES set us in position to do this combo, so it's worth remembering.


More importantly, the real finesse of Grand Pirouette is doing these combos mid-screen. It's virtually impossible to miss Grand Pirouette combos against a cornered opponent, but landing it against an opponent midscreen is much harder, since they're flying away at a rapid rate. It takes practice, but you're basically doing a Tiger Knee motion to count as the first 236 while ALSO performing a high jump, and then hit 236B/D with a very slight delay. The tricky part here, is that while you can't do it too slow (the opponent will land before you), you also can't do it as fast as possible either (you will either fly under your opponent, or you'll connect with the impact and get only 1-2 hits of the drill). So, a slight delay is required.

If you don't feel 100% confident doing this midscreen, I recommend only attempting it off of a very high-damage combo (either the Fireball into 5C combo, or 214B into drill combo). Reason being, if you just do bC xx 214C into Grand Pirouette, even if you land it properly midscreen, it's only a negligible increase in damage (roughly 750-ish). If you land one of the other two combos and hit the Grand Pirouette successfully midscreen, you're looking at over 1000 damage.



H. Help, every time I land Gachi Drives I flail around like a jackass and accomplish nothing

Me too.

...But, whenever the day comes that I don't get excited upon landing a Gachi Drive and start wyling like I won the lottery, I did come up with a simple, practical combo for Gachi Drives that should work on the entire cast.

1. Low Gachi?

- Meterless: CDd xx 214C

The trick to landing this combo is that you need to wait until your opponent bounces off the wall, and dash in only after that. For this particular combo, you'll also need to walk forward a little bit after your dash, or you'll whiff the 2D.

- With Meter (midscreen): BbCc xx 214C /\ Grand Pirouette

This combo is actually very easy in the corner OR midscreen, because your opponent will not fly away as fast as they would normally. As with the meterless combo, you need to dash forward AFTER your opponent bounces.

- With Meter (corner): CDd /\ Grand Pirouette

...Yep, it's the meterless combo, but juggling with super instead of 214C. You need to TK the super motion pretty quickly.


2. High Gachi?

- Meterless: D, 214A, 214C

For all of these combos, you need to use D to stop your opponent from flying over you. The timing is basically as late as you feel comfortable with; the later you do it, the closer they'll be as they fall, making the rest of your combo that much easier.

- With Meter #1: D, 214A, 214A xx Divertissement

The timing on this is weird. Juggle them with D when they are almost directly above you. Then, do the first 214A as fast as possible. The final 214A should be timed so that they are directly in front of you. Otherwise, you will miss the last hit of Divertissement.

- With Meter #2: D, 214C /\ Grand Pirouette

As usual, this combo does more than a Divertissement combo. But, this one is significantly harder to land, with only a minimal damage increase (about 100 damage greater). If you're a baller, do this combo instead. Otherwise, the first combo is still very useful.



I. Yo dawg, you haven't mentioned any combos that don't end with supers

There's not much difference to Odile's combos without meter. A few notes:

- Don't do any combos I listed that end with Divertissement without meter. No reason to do so.

- For any Grand Pirouette combo, the meterless version is simply to omit Grand Pirouette. In the corner, you can jump cancel and tack on either a j.D (most damage and resets...I don't recommend resetting with Odile), j.C (second most damage and knocks down), or a B/D Drill (least damage, but easiest to land if you're slightly out of the corner).

- If you successfully land a 214B, you can cancel that into drill, and then do {bC xx 214A/C} when you land (probably 214C).
 

[Grimsley-San]

Damn, wish this game got more love, I know for a fact that it's been overlooked from SFIV, KOFXII, and BBCT back in 08/09.

Also wished that this game had better online and a sequel at least (I know this game is finished though) >.>

[NeoStrayCat]

Yeah, but it looks good anyways as it is stand-alone. @_@

[Keo-bas]

screw sequel just give us godly like net code and we be good. 

[SoulGuitarist]

I might pick this up out of curiosity. Anyone here still play?

[Grimsley-San]

I might pick this up out of curiosity. Anyone here still play?

 

 

I know for a fact that Jinxhand plays it all the time and (fully?) supports the game.

I might pick this game up again too, but I'm not sure if I can/will

[Keo-bas]

I always had the game in my but online was never to hot. 

[jinxhand]

I know for a fact that Jinxhand plays it all the time and (fully?) supports the game.

I might pick this game up again too, but I'm not sure if I can/will

You've got that right I still play the game ^^ I still support the game, too!!!

 

@SkankinGarbage - Awesome OD input!!! Quick tidbit, if you time it right, 5C can work as an AA, and give you the option to combo if the move doesn't get gachi'd... Like Cedric, OD can punish certain moves that other characters can't with her air super... I'll work on a list or something...

 

For those who play Freed, 2C has another reason to be used!!! It's the best way to punish moves after gachi, high or low. For example:

 

5G_2G, 1C, 5B~[4]6C~236236A - Ok, so this isn't exactly 2C input, but you have to use 1C to start the charge for [4]6C to work. I believe this works on NH also, but I haven't tested it thoroughly just yet...

 

Another range dependent link is this:

 

5G_2G, 2C, 2B~[2]8C~236236A - On NH and CH in heat up, 2B~2[8]C combos. So if Freed is a bit past 5B range, you can substitute it with 2B and combo with [2]8C into a super.

 

After 5G, 2C gives enough frame advantage to mash out a few 5As into [4]6A/C. It's not that I recommend this combo, but it's something to know.

 

-------------------------------------

 

EDIT: So the 2C, 2B link for Freed seems to work against standing attacks moreso than crouching attacks. Either the link is ridiculously tight, or there's no way to link it at all against crouching attacks. If this is the case, the best option would be to either go 2C~[2]8C, or 2C~[4]6C into super.

 

-------------------------------------

 

Deathbringer players rejoice!!! Another max damage combo reaching a whopping 2300 dmg. This works on EVERYONE!!! The only caveat is that DB must be in the corner as opposed to the opponent. Also, his 63214A must only hit once. Here's the video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIGnNan-exM

 

Here's the annotation: 6G~Heat, [5D], (corner), c.5C > [5D], 61234A (1hit), c.5C > [5D]~Final Strike

 

Also, there's a chance that DB can do damage after Final Strike. I'm working on a combo that can allow this. DB has to hit the opponent high enough so that once that last "Slash" attack hits and goes into Final Strike, he has enough time to land and hit the opponent who should still be in a juggle state if combo'd properly. Stay tuned for that though.

[Keo-bas]

Its people like Jinx who made me want do the stuff I do for Fellow Game phantom Breaker. Just Like Battle Fantasia, Phantom Breaker went unnoticed.

 

[Grimsley-San]

Its people like Jinx who made me want do the stuff I do for Fellow Game phantom Breaker. Just Like Battle Fantasia, Phantom Breaker went unnoticed.

 

 

I really do want to give Phantom Breaker a try..

[SoulGuitarist]

@Keo-bas RIP That's a shame.

It looks kinda fun from matches I saw though so I might pick it up and play around with it.

[Keo-bas]

Phantom breaker suffer the same scrutiny that Battle Fantasia had. It was over shadow by its Predecessor even though it was in a ideal position to make a for front. (Phantom breaker was over shadow by Asuka series, and it had limited competition when release on 360)

 

But enough of Phantom Breaker, I want to give Battle fantasia net code another try.  

[jinxhand]

So, there was someone online who was swearing up and down that Cedric was ridiculously top tier... I agree that Cedric is really strong, and to some extent tier lists are subjective, but I don't think he's that top tier of a character (I'll explain later). Anyway, this person gave praise to Cedric's dropkick, and I told him that while it's a good move, it's only good if you hit with it, and that you can be punished severely on block. I knew this without testing anything, but just because I like to test things out, I'd thought to do so. Here's the breakdown vs each character and based on the level dropkick. I'm only using levels 1-3 since no one would dare use level 4, right? Please note, at the minimum, every character can throw punish this move, unless the Cedric player is tricky enough to mask the frame disadvantage by having the opponent block a dropkick and fireball.

     

Urs:

level 1: 623A, 236236B/D

level 2: 623A

level 3: 623A

 

Marco:

level 1: 623A, 236236B/D

level 2: 623A

level 3: 623A

 

Olivia:

level 1: Command throw

level 2: Command throw

level 3: Command throw

 

Donvalve:

level 1: Command throw, 360 Super

level 2: Command throw, 360 Super

level 3: Command throw, 360 Super

Special note: If Donvalve gachis this move, he can immediately punish with 236236B/D, since Cedric is in aerial state, or Donvalve can do things like 4C~41236~A and do crazy throw mixups from there.

 

Face:

level1: Texas Knee, 236236C

level 2: Texas Knee, 236236C

level 3: Texas Knee

 

Freed:

level 1: c.5C

level 2: c.5C

level 3: Nothing

Special note: Since the dropkick mostly hits mid, you can block it couching, allowing you to charge to do either [4]6C, or [2]8C after landing the c.5C. After blocking, quickly go into neutral to land c.5C, then tap either 8C or 6C to do either special.

 

Deathbringer:

Sadly, he can't do anything but throw punish. If he knows a dropkick is coming, he can go into 236236A/C on reaction, and get some damage if timed right.

 

Coyori:

Sadly, she can't do anything but throw punish. There's really not much in terms of what she can do to beat it out or punish it tbh.

 

Odile&Dokurod:

level 1: 214214A/C

level 2: 214214A/C

level 3: Nothing

 

Watson:

level 1: 236236A/C

level 2: 236236A/C

level 3: 236236A/C

Special note: I have on occasion got 5A>5B and 2A>2D to work as punishes, but they've proven to be iffy at best. I'm thinking they're range dependent. Also, a telegraphed 2C has a chance of beating the dropkick out. This works out for Watson, because he can regain momentum if he beats the move out and goes into 236A/C at level 2 or 3. There's always the opportunity of utilizing 236B/D for mixups as opposed to cornering with 236A/C, the latter seems to allow Watson to attack more and from different angles.

 

Ashley:

level 1: Command throw

level 2: Command throw

level 3: Command throw

 

Cedric:

Sadly, he can only throw punish, which isn't bad for him, since he can combo off of this, or go for mixups with 5C~[4]6A/C. Of course, if you're quick enough, 236236B/D can catch Cedric, and you can combo after that, assuming you're charging D.

 

Extra notes:

Freed's c.5C is 4f execution, so based on the frame data from CurryAllergy's blog, if I can land this, then characters like Olivia should be able to punish with 214214A/C, and both Urs' and Marco's 236236B/D should work no matter what level dropkick is blocked. I feel like there are many factors affecting how characters can punish Cedric's dropkick. I also kept in mind the distance between both characters, as this could work in Cedric's favor (a la Dictator's crouching roundhouse). To be fair, everything tested was done at several different distances, which all were done for each character. This way, I could see if range was a factor in certain punishes or not. Everything listed worked at all ranges, and there weren't any "range specific" punishes. I was hoping to find some, as that could change the universal tier listing to some degree.

 

Hope this helps someone out. Again, Cedric is a great character with a great tool. One just can't endlessly spam it without an overall gameplan...

 

I'll test Heat Up specific punishes for the dropkick next...

[Issen]

Just recently discovered this game -- it's so sick. From the mechanics to the art style to the character design -- it just oozes all of this unique personality. Totally deserves more credit than it's received in the past.

 

Freed is really fun! I never knew Balrog needed Sei'ei Enbu haha

I've found myself having to find different 6G combos in the corner because of how the wallbounce sends the opponent out. Sometimes you can just neutral jump/jump back into j.C/D to keep them in, but that doesn't work on some characters, such as Deathbringer.

So what I've been doing in the corner is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqhLOR3EZgY
Good damage, sends them back into the other corner and allows for oki with the [4]6D shadow. This one at least works on DB, but I've managed to get the 5C to hit on Ashley. I think an easier alternative would be smacking them in the air with 5D instead of 5C and going from there.

[Keo-bas]

Yeah Cedric and Ashly get over hyped too much. Their good but not stupid, Now Marco and Face is were the "Top Tier BS" is out.

 

I need refresher course in this game....so netplay? (or should I say netpray)

[jinxhand]

Just recently discovered this game -- it's so sick. From the mechanics to the art style to the character design -- it just oozes all of this unique personality. Totally deserves more credit than it's received in the past.

 

Freed is really fun! I never knew Balrog needed Sei'ei Enbu haha

I've found myself having to find different 6G combos in the corner because of how the wallbounce sends the opponent out. Sometimes you can just neutral jump/jump back into j.C/D to keep them in, but that doesn't work on some characters, such as Deathbringer.

So what I've been doing in the corner is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqhLOR3EZgY

Good damage, sends them back into the other corner and allows for oki with the [4]6D shadow. This one at least works on DB, but I've managed to get the 5C to hit on Ashley. I think an easier alternative would be smacking them in the air with 5D instead of 5C and going from there.

 

Glad you found this great game!! Again, if you have any questions, let me know, and I'll see what I can do to help.

 

As for Freed 6G combos, there's ways to ensure that they stay in the corner, even if you've got the opponent and they've just been hit with a Gachi Drive. Best idea is to quickly pressing 7C or 7D after recovery from Gachi Drive. If you prefer, Doing 7C/D~1 can help, since you can catch them with 2C into either his Jetter or uppercut and combo afterwards. Freed does have some weird properties with some of his normals and specials, but you can use that to your advantage to create crazy combos that lead into mixups. You'll find alot of Freed players just play straight Boxer style, with no flair, due to the fact that some normals can be very situational at times. A good example of this is doing 5G~5B to many characters at close range. While 5B is a good poke in normal circumstances, it can completely whiff vs many of the characters when used after 5G.

 

@Keo-bas - I'm on a job right now, when I get back, I'll add you on psn. I'll try to compile a list of other BatFan players, since there are people out there.

[jinxhand]

Some tidbits of info I came across, but forgot to mention:

 

Remember when I mentioned that Freed's shadow can come out even at the end of Heat Up? Well, I was trying to work on some potential mixups in this situation, and wondered if the shadow move hits the opponent during throw breaks. Apparently it does not, as throw breaking makes both characters invincible temporarily for somewhere between 10f-13f (based on the animation). In training mode, I recorded Freed doing a [4]6D and input a throw break afterwards, and I attempted to throw after blocking. The shadow move went right through me during the throw breaking animation.

 

Deathbringer's 41236B seems to be -5f on block, but I'm still testing it out. Vs many of the characters, it's relatively safe.

 

6D can be used in Heat Up combos, and Final Strike still connects afterward.

 

Interesting corner combo with Deathbringer: 214B (charge move), 236236A, 623C~236236[A]. It isn't super strong, but the fact that 2 Final Strikes can be used in one combo is pretty cool imo.

 

The hitbox to Donvalve's 4C extends behind him so far, that it's actually a good anti cross up tool. I used Face's 9B to cross up, and he still got hit by 4C even though Donvalve's arm wasn't touching Face at all, which proves the hitbox is wider than I initially expected.

 

I'll post more findings as they come. I apologize if it's all over the place. I plan to keep working on the dustloop wiki for this game...