Battle Fantasia: Combos, Strategy, Discussion

[jinxhand]

I don't know if this was already mentioned, but Marco's 6B can actually combo. The caveat is that it only works after a successful 2G, because there's more frame advantage against crouching opponents after Gachi. So far, only 623A combos afterwards. Also, this works everywhere. I originally thought this was only possible in the corner. I'm testing a bunch of other possibilities, like you can sometimes land 5B, but I haven't been able to cancel into anything yet... Also, one thing to note: If 6B crosses up, there are no options to combo. 6B HAS to start and end on the same side Marco is facing.

So far, the only real 6B combo is 2G, 6B, 623A~236236A/C

Also, 214[B/D] virtually makes Marco a strong character when used after Low Gachi Drive. He can cover any distance in order to combo, similar to Face, which I think is another reason why Face is true top tier. Anyway, Marco, but as strong as he is, can literally pull off massive damage in enough time before the LGD opportunity closes.

3G~214[D], 5B > c.5C > f.5C > 5D(1) > 1D > 3D~623C(1) ~236236B/D

This combo alone does half life to Urs, so this should put things in perspective.

[jinxhand]

Olivia has an OS with her command grab!!! I'll explain...

In the corner, I start off with a command grab (63214A) and from there, I land a free 2D. You have to make sure that you connect with 2D. While the opponent is floating, use Olivia's 5B>3D chain. The 5B resets the opponent, allowing you to land in the right position to use the command grab. Right before she lands, buffer the command grab, but hold back right before you hit A. If the opponent attacks early, you block. If they attack late, you command grab them.

Normals, specials, and supers do not beat this out, with the exception of Donvalve's command grab super, and mashing out a normal throw. There is a chance to beat normal throws with this setup, but the frame window is really small.

I've tested this with the entire cast. DPs can't even beat this. I'll record footage demonstrating this setup.

 

Any thoughts???

[NeoStrayCat]

Well, Jinx, not to sound dull, but your last post for Battle Fantasia stuff was over a year ago, I doubt anyone would be willing to comment, besides myself, lol.

And as much as I like it with its parrying system and its RPG-ish fighting setting, its still good, lol. Thanks for still putting up relevant stuff for it lately.

[jinxhand]

I don't expect anyone to really comment, it's just a force of habit lol. I have recently started putting some info regarding the comparison between Olivia and Odile. It maybe a weekly thing where I break the two characters down. Here's what I've got thus far:

 

I figured it's time to break down two of Battle Fantasia's characters that often trade places in many tier lists, even mine: Olivia and Odile&Dokurod. Both characters have many pros and cons to their playstyles and move sets, and I plan to expound on them as well as combo potential, Heat Up abilities, and a few other issues. Over the next several posts, I'll break down the standout normals, specials, supers, Heat Up, and overall playstyles of both characters. Either way, regardless of where they fall in the tier lists, please remember to just pick the character you like the most and have fun. Lastly, for the remainder of this writing I will refer to Odile&Dokurod as simply Odile. 

**Normals**
First, it's good to know what moves each character has and why they are good/bad. Because both Olivia and Odile are essentially palette swaps with similar normals, it can be easy for people to assume they are the same and move on to other characters. In this game, appearance is virtually the only real thing they share. 

Let's start with one of the best normals that make both characters differ from each other-- 5C. For both Olivia and Odile, 5C is completely different in animation and main objective. Considering Olivia to be a mid range footsies character, 5C is her farthest and possibly best ranged normal in her arsenal. It's quite longer than Odile's 5C. Olivia's reach with 5C is the only immediate plus side to it, as outside of Gachi it cannot cancel into other specials or supers. Outside of Heat Up it cannot link with other normals. So this reduces the attack to a "spacing" tool, since Olivia has no projectiles to speak of, unlike Odile, she needs something with distance. In some matchups,  Olivia may have to resort to utilizing 2C due to 5C being punishable in many instances. Olivia's 5C does come in two flavors, far and close, or f.5C and c.5C, something Odile doesn't have. c5C is +3 on block and f.5C is -7f on block, so for f.5C your best bet is to use it at max range as it is intended. Typically, Olivia players will use c.5C as a quick punish move that leads into a combo provided the move blocked is really unsafe. It does link into 2B, which increases her combo potential, and can cancel into specials/supers. It also serves as a great tool while in Heat Up, which I will discuss later. One other thing to note, Olivia's second longest normal is 2C (which can cancel into specials/supers), followed by 5D (which is a great anti-air and link starter), and 2D (which grants both a hard knockdown and a small combo opportunity). These normals will be discussed in another write up comparing both Olivia and Odile.

Olivia's 5C isn't really centered around her other moves, whereas in Odile's case, it heavily relies on the other special moves. Odile's 5C is can cancel into specials or supers, unlike Olivia's 5C, and it's safe unlike Olivia's (0f on block vs -7f on block). One unique feature with this 5C is that it can be jump canceled as well. Odile's overall play style is rush down with an emphasis on aerial attacks. This 5C is clearly shorter in range, and it's technically not even her longest reaching normal (2D reaches a bit further). 5C canceling into 214C is technically unsafe, until Odile jump cancels it. From here, she can lockdown with an instant j.C, whiff punish with an air super (j.236236B/D), or do a host of other things while in the air. 5C also chains from 2B and functions like a target combo. This is the bread and butter of Odile's rush down tactic. Of course there are other options in rushing down, but if you ever plan to learn Odile's expect to learn the importance of this chain attack and the importance of 5C. Odile's can also change the pace of the match by canceling 5C into her fireball (236A/C). This is really good in Heat Up, but that will be discussed later. 

In my next blurb of Olivia vs Odile's, I'll breakdown the other normals, as they have differences and similarities that won't require a large amount of analysis. As always, if you guys have any questions regarding this, or anything Battle Fantasia related, please let me know. Peace!

[tokin fuyou]

The more info we can archive for this game, the better. You never know if anyone will pick up this game (again) in the future. Keep it coming!

[jinxhand]

Battle Fantasia Analysis - Olivia vs Odile&Dokurod

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I'm back with another look at the similarities and differences between Battle Fantasia's "twins", Olivia and Odile. As mentioned previously, we will continue to tackle the remaining normals starting with D attacks, B attacks, A attacks, and eventually the specials, supers and Heat abilities will be discussed. You may find that some moves and specials may have a fair amount of data behind it, while others may not. This is due to the fact that Battle Fantasia is predominantly a footsies based game akin to Street Fighter, with a dash of other fighting game mechanics. Let's continue on with the breakdown shall we?

**NORMALS (CONT.)**

For Olivia, 5D can be used as either a decent poke, anti-air, or a combo starter. Coming out at 10f with it being +2 on block is not a bad thing. In fact, you may find yourself using this move as much as 5C or 2C. This move actually links with the aforementioned C attacks, and can greatly increase the combo damage once the timing is mastered. Its only weak point is that the anti-air usage isn't always beneficial as it is with Odile's, despite Olivia's 5D hitbox being slightly larger, so it's best used in link combos. 

Odile's 5D is just as strong as Olivia's, but for a different reason. Odile's 5D can be jump canceled, allowing for combos or aerial mixups after a successful anti-air. Odile's 5D moves at 7f, and is 0f on block, so even though it's faster than Olivia's 5D, there's no great advantage on block. Odile can't really utilize 5D as a solid poke, so this limits her to rely on her chain attacks after closing in with the help of her projectiles. Also, don't expect to do any link combos either. Odile's links actually come from a different source, mainly her fireballs, but that's for another discussion.

As for comparing the two character's 5Ds, Olivia's actually seems to come out on top. Even though Odile's 5D is faster and still safe on block, it only serves as an answer for one type of situation, whereas Olivia's 5D can serve as a poke, anti-air, and is a reliable means of punishing an opponent for massive damage. The "best" option for Odile from an anti-air 5D is j.236236B/D, which may or may not do a lot of damage due to either damage proration from the super itself, not landing the full amount of hits before landing, or both situations occurring together. Situations like this force the Odile player to either use a less damaging, but more reliable combo, or attempt resets, hoping to rack up more damage over the course of the match. This can be deadly depending on the match up, especially against characters with meterless reversals such as Face, or Cedric, who has a reversal super that can lead to huge damaging combos. Olivia has way more options at her disposal just from this move alone, whether the opponent is in the air or the ground. This doesn't mean that Odile's 5D is worthless. In the hands of a smart player, Odile can definitely force a jumpy opponent to stay grounded, and the mixups can be lethal, especially when Gachi and her drill kicks are incorporated. This is all done without a "Shoryuken-esque" move in her arsenal.

Now that 5D is out of the way, 2D and its usefulness for both characters can be analyzed in great detail. This, too, will require its own separate breakdown, as there's so much data to go over. Stay tuned, and please share your thoughts with me online. Peace!

[jinxhand]

Massive info incoming!!!

Battle Fantasia Analysis - Olivia vs Odile&Dokurod

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Let’s continue breaking down both Olivia and Odile. So far we’ve covered their similarities and differences in a few of their normal attacks, mainly 5C, 2C, and 5D. We will continue on with 2D, hopefully go over the other normal attacks, and transition over to specials, supers, etc. Here we go!

Both Olivia and Odile have a lot of similar attacks of course, and 2D is no different. Olivia’s 2D is actually great in terms of appearance and overall usage. The attack is 10f and -4f on block. Compared to the rest of Olivia’s good normal, this is the slow poke of the bunch, along with 5D and 6B which is the slowest. The -4f on block isn’t too bad at a beginner level, but once you start playing at an intermediate to high level, that’s when match ups play a bigger role in determining how often and when you should use 2D. As a poke, 2D can act as a “noob checker” since some players may not be knowledgeable enough in the match up to punish accordingly with their character. Across the board, and depending on range, everyone can throw punish this move (a la Face’s Texas Knee [623K] on block), so it is imperative that Olivia uses this move from max range if it’s done as a poke. There are character specific punishes that can do devastating damage to Olivia at the right range. For instance, Urs and Marco can definitely punish with their 236236K attack since they come out either at or under 4f. Donvalve’s Don Swing (360+P), and super version of Don Swing (720+P) come out instantly. Against Face, it almost doesn’t matter where you use 2D (notice I didn’t say when). If it is blocked, expect to eat a Wilderness Bazooka (236236+P), unless of course Face’s timing is off, or he does the A version that goes upward vice the C version which goes straight. Face’s 236236K super can also be used to punish Olivia’s 2D, albeit a super that’s even more position dependent. Regardless, this is an example of a match up that isn’t great for Olivia’s that rely on 2D. Don’t be so quick to drop this normal altogether. It works wonders in combos and mix ups. Plus, aside from her C attacks and 5D, 2D actually takes a huge chunk of damage off of the opponent’s health bar. 

In terms of combos, Olivia’s 2D is actually a combo starter, ender, and even a juggle move. Just by itself at mid-screen, Olivia will be using 2D into 5C, just as much as 5D into 2C. This makes Olivia’s high/low game pretty deadly once the player understands the max range to use these moves. Couple this with the fact that she has a command grab that functions as a combo/mix up tool, this really makes her a real threat. In the corner, you have many options at your disposal. If you happen to land 2D, you can simply do it again for a juggle. If you want, you can do other things like 623A/C for a bit more damage. If you prefer to mix up the opponent, there’s her 5B > 3D attack set that allows for potential crossups, and is even used for her command grab option select which will be explained in another write up. Using 2D plus Heat Up (HU) adds extra hits from her birds that are summoned, plus it’s considerably safe, but deceptively spam friendly. I still wouldn’t recommend abusing this too much, as the bird attacks can have gaps big enough for some characters to punish Olivia. After a Gachi Drive, 2D plus Heat Up means “Bird Juggles”, as in you’ll find yourself juggling with 2D anywhere from 2-3 times a combo. That doesn’t sound like a lot, but when you see the damage this move is doing, you’ll respect 2D more. 

Odile, Odile, Odile… Your 2D looks deceptively slow, but somehow it moves at 9f. It’s less safe than Olivia’s, giving -6f on block, so just like Olivia, you’ll have to use this at max range if you want to think about staying somewhat safe. It’s cool though, because YOU CAN JUMP CANCEL 2D!!! The only caveat is that the jump cancel can ONLY occur on hit. So if you plan on using this move, you must be dedicated to it, and aware that it needs to be done at max range. Also know that if this move is blocked, you’re screwed for the most part, but -6f isn’t bad vs some characters. Other characters can and will have a field’s day if you aren’t playing smart with this move. Despite the cons, this move is still good and very important for Odile, despite the fact that most players don’t utilize it properly (or at all).

Why is 2D still an important attack??? I’m pretty sure once we’re done with this journey you’ll start seeing the hidden potential in Odile’s aerial game. I’m just going to put this out there: if you don’t know by now, most of what Odile can do involves jump canceling, or it just puts her in the air. She has some ground options depending on what she does, but what she can do in the air vs the ground really depends on the match up, and if specific moves are going to hit. Moving on… 2D is definitely a normal attack that is deceptive in lots of ways. As mentioned before, Odile can jump cancel from it on hit, allowing her to apply aerial mix ups, retreat if desired, or juggle on hit. What might be the best option in the event you land 2D with Odile? It’s simple—well, not really simple… It depends on your style of play. If you just want damage, Divertissement (j.236236K) does the most damage depending on how high Odile is when it’s activated. There are other options, like her j.2K drill kicks, or j.D (hard to do), but the latter is mainly used for mix ups, which leads to my next point. If you prefer mix ups from 2D, of course you can use j.D. Why? For those picking up Odile, her j.D can be canceled into the drill kicks. Yep. Be mindful of which drill kick you use though. J.2D goes practically downward, whereas j.2B goes outward (but still down of course, lol). Also, connecting with j.D can be a bit hard, but it definitely pays off with the amount of damage your can score from mixing it up. You could also jump backward and do an instant j.C, which hits lower than j.D, but removes the option to cancel into a drill kick. 

Here’s another tidbit regarding Odile’s 2D: it is one of her only normal attacks (6B counts as a command normal), that advances her forward. Why is this important for Odile? I personally think it’s very important to have positive control of your character in terms of movement. You as the player should be able to understand the range of your normal attacks, specials, and supers. If you’re slightly out of range with Odile, and you don’t want to jump, and the only attack that will actually connect is 2D, that’s probably your best bet. At best, you’ll land it, jump cancel and air super for damage. The next best thing is that you don’t jump cancel and let the 2D cause a Hard Knockdown, allowing you to close in with something like her dash. Worst case scenario, you get blocked, but you may not get punished properly, because the opponent may not have a decent move that punishes that quickly, or if they do, it doesn’t have the proper length to connect, so you could retaliate if the opponent does try to throw something out, even if you are negative on block. This is an example of what is known as Abare. 

For those new to Battle Fantasia, fighting games in general, or understanding Japanese fighting game terminology, Abare is a Japanese term used to describe “risky gameplay”, or essentially “attacking while in the negative” (in terms of frame data). This scenario can sometimes benefit Odile. This tactic is typically frowned upon depending on which subgroup within the fighting game community you associate with, but for others it can be moderately encouraged. In Battle Fantasia, depending on the situation, it may actually be a good thing for certain characters to “abare”, and Odile is one of those characters that can sometimes get away with it against certain characters. Regardless, it isn’t always a good idea to use an attack, especially if there’s a chance the move could either hit, or get whiff canceled into a special/super that will connect, so utilizing Gachi properly may help remedy the possibility of getting demolished. 

So that’s it for 2D! Yes it was quite a bit of information, but it is needed as it is very important information. I will continue to dissect Olivia and Odile in the next write up. Please comment and share this with others who are interested or already enjoy this great game. Tell me what your thoughts are regarding Olivia and/or Odile. Who do you think is strongest of these two, and why? Who should I breakdown next after Olivia and Odile? I definitely enjoy the comments and ideas I get. Thanks, and peace!!!