Chrono Phantasma Story Discussion [fun tentatively allowed again]

[mAc Chaos]

Ah. So it's not that the Black Beast goes back into the past, so much as they change everything around the Black Beast so it's the past when it's formed.

[Zedar90]

Ah. So it's not that the Black Beast goes back into the past, so much as they change everything around the Black Beast so it's the past when it's formed.

From what I understand, that's how it is. However there is a problem with that and that is, what happens if Takamagahara would be able to reset time when Noel saved Ragna? No Black Beast in the next phase? Or would the time-line not care about it and create a new one with no origin since the Black Beast is too important for the Time-line and must exist? If the Black Beast that appears in 2100 is Ragna and Nu and it is it's first appearance, then what was that Black Beast that appeared thousands of years before CT?

 

Hopefully it will be clearer in the next game or in some LN, but what's known is the time-line is reset so that it could counter the reappearances of the Black Beast in present time.

[Rishtopher]

I was under the impression that Takamagahara reset time to stop the fusion but it wasn't aware that the black beast would show up 100 years in the past when Nu and Ragna fell into the cauldron? If it's the way Mac says it is, I don't really understand the reason for the hundred year loop, specifically? LIke, why not just rewind it to the day before or something then?

[mAc Chaos]

The way Zedar said it, stuff that comes from the Boundary or deals with the Boundary has no time. Once the Black Beast is created by Ragna and Nu it would still be hanging out near the Cauldron, regardless of what the current time is. So Takamagahara shifts time back to when the Black Beast is supposed to appear so the Six Heroes can defeat it like they're supposed to.

[Zedar90]

I was under the impression that Takamagahara reset time to stop the fusion but it wasn't aware that the black beast would show up 100 years in the past when Nu and Ragna fell into the cauldron? If it's the way Mac says it is, I don't really understand the reason for the hundred year loop, specifically? LIke, why not just rewind it to the day before or something then?

What says that Takamagahara can reset the world a day earlier? Their method isn't that simple, they brute force it by nuking Kagetsuchi with a weapon that can at earliest be fired every 4 years.

What's shown that they can do is to reset time by nuking and shift observing a phenomena during the activation of Continuum Shift.

 

Also they wait until the very last second until they reset, this is what they say at the end of the CT LN volume 1:

 

The outbreak of THE BEAST(ザ・ビースト, Za Biisuto) is confirmed. The System shifts towards phase 298. --- Arrival axis is 2099, 12, 31, Japan. --- Phenomena error is 1 in 7200... Error in last phenomena was 1 in 400... Master Unit's completion is 267189... Starting modification... System have been reset normally. --- Takamagahara-System begins observing phase 299.

[mAc Chaos]

I still don't understand how Take Mikazuchi firing at the Cauldron resets time. Couldn't they just do that without firing it? And if they're going to wipe the timeline out anyway, what difference does it make what happens in the present.

Maybe firing it causes Amaterasu to intervene and reset the timeline herself, since she interferes in CP when things go bad.

[Zedar90]

I still don't understand how Take Mikazuchi firing at the Cauldron resets time. Couldn't they just do that without firing it? And if they're going to wipe the timeline out anyway, what difference does it make what happens in the present.

Maybe firing it causes Amaterasu to intervene and reset the timeline herself, since she interferes in CP when things go bad.

I get the feeling that it's like that. It would at least make something that conflicts with each other being solved. That is, Takamagahara is responsible for the loop and the girl(Amaterasu) is the one who is rewriting the  "story" over and over again.

 

So Takamagahara would make the reset by destroying something that Amaterasu doesn't want to be destroyed and therefore Amaterasu starts to rewrite(rewinds time to the year 2100) the story again.

[Rishtopher]

I'm actually even more confused now lol... So Takamagahara is force resetting the world by destroying something Amaterasu doesn't want destroyed, right? In that sense, it's actually Amaterasu that is having time reset and Takamagahara is just observing the ensuing phenomena? Is this correct?

[Zedar90]

I'm actually even more confused now lol... So Takamagahara is force resetting the world by destroying something Amaterasu doesn't want destroyed, right? In that sense, it's actually Amaterasu that is having time reset and Takamagahara is just observing the ensuing phenomena? Is this correct?

The creation of Takamagahara-system went like this: Humanity dug up the Susanoo Unit, after futher digging they found a cauldron. Inside the Cauldron there is a space known as the Boundary, and it's proved that the Boundary effects the worlds time and space. The phenomena system "Takamagahara" is made to manage the Boundary, but the moment it tries to start a program they get an intervention from someone on it's self. After some investigation it's known that the one to make that Intervention is the Amaterasu Unit.

 

Here's Terumi-sensei lecture from the CS LN volume 2:

 

A story from a time long ago. At one time the humans found the boundary and a hole connecting to it, in other words a Cauldron. Going through the Cauldron they arrive to the boundary, a space filled with seithr. ... Here's a question to you Ranga-chan. What kind of substance is Seithr?

3,2,1, Time's over~~!

Seithr is particular programs. It has existed in this world since the ancient past, and everything in this world is constructed from this substance. The Humanity that took a peak into the boundary found an existence that could freely control the seithr. That is Master Unit... A God!

The Humanity wanted the power of god. For that reason they created the Dimensional Boundary Contact Prime Fields, and contacted the Master Unit. It was success and it took back lots of data from the Master Unit, but at the same time when it got in contact with the Master Unit it awoke the power to freely rewrite the phenomena... It got the "Power of the Eye" in it's body.

To be able to rewrite the truth to however one who like, that's some power right? Obviously, Humanity got scared of the Prime Field that returned and dumped it into the boundary. However, they saved the Data, and with that data they created an artificial "Power of the Eye". And with the Power of God, they would control the phenomena themselves. And that was the... Takamagahara-System.

Takamagahara-system would observe and modify humanity, the world, the phenomena to make sure that no matter what distortion that would be created, that the humanity would continue to exist for eternity. And because of that the "looping world" that existed until a few days ago occurred.

You understand right? The humanity created a god. However, there is no need in this world for two gods that controls the phenomena. Don't you think so too? Off course the Takamagahara-System got to the same conclusion.

To kill god a weapon is needed. And the material chosen for creating that weapon was the Dimensional Boundary Contact Prime Fields.

 

So if Takamagahara tries to do something that Amaterasu doesn't like, it will block them since even tough Takamagahara does have a lesser version of the "Power of the Eye" it's no match to either Amaterasu or Noel. It wasn't until Izanami started to use the Takamagahara that it would become stronger than Noel yet weaker than Amaterasu.

 

Takamagahara tries to do their best to kill Amaterasu so that they would be the only god and have full control over the phenomena, that's why they released Terumi from the boundary and they thought had full control over him, but Terumi was able to escape their attempts to reset Terumi by using Phantom's magic (Terumi said there methods to do the reset wasn't good enough) and used Izayoi to make things they couldn't see.

[mAc Chaos]

I wonder how long before we see the original Prime Field Device in BlazBlue. It is almost a waste not to have it appear at some point.

[Rishtopher]

-snip-

Thanks Zedar, though, I'm not confused on what Takamagahara is. My confusion is from their "mechanism" in rewinding time. I understand that Amaterasu's power to intervene is greater than Takamagahara's, but the part I don't get is this: if they're essentially getting Amaterasu to trigger a time reset (via firing Take-Mikazuchi), how does Takamagahara control how far back time goes or when the time loop starts? Or am I supposed to understand that ALL of time has looped, and that as the viewer, we only get to see 2100-2199? I'm talking about the time during CT, not Amaterasu rewinding time in CP, that part is pretty clear to me already. I hope my question is clear this time? 

 

If I'm fundamentally mistaken about how this works, just let me know lol.

 

Also, about the Prime Field Device that met with Amaterasu: do we know if they are separate entities? What I mean is, are we supposed to think that Amaterasu is like the Susano'o and that a soul can inhabit it, or is it more like the PFD met with Amaterasu and became someone like Noel (a PFD with the Eye)? If there's no information that points to either conclusion, I'm fine with that too. I just can't read the LNs to check to see if there's more info on it. Sorry for all the questions lol.

[mAc Chaos]

What I thought was that the Prime Field Device was just this machine thing, and then when it met Amaterasu it came to life and became self aware.

[raziel12]

the only things i look foward to knowing is that wat evil lives inside ragna and wat part him and nu  play in the embryo and who is inside the coffin of Amaterasu 

 

all i know is that last game gonna be epic

[Zedar90]

Thanks Zedar, though, I'm not confused on what Takamagahara is. My confusion is from their "mechanism" in rewinding time. I understand that Amaterasu's power to intervene is greater than Takamagahara's, but the part I don't get is this: if they're essentially getting Amaterasu to trigger a time reset (via firing Take-Mikazuchi), how does Takamagahara control how far back time goes or when the time loop starts? Or am I supposed to understand that ALL of time has looped, and that as the viewer, we only get to see 2100-2199? I'm talking about the time during CT, not Amaterasu rewinding time in CP, that part is pretty clear to me already. I hope my question is clear this time? 

 

If I'm fundamentally mistaken about how this works, just let me know lol.

 

Also, about the Prime Field Device that met with Amaterasu: do we know if they are separate entities? What I mean is, are we supposed to think that Amaterasu is like the Susano'o and that a soul can inhabit it, or is it more like the PFD met with Amaterasu and became someone like Noel (a PFD with the Eye)? If there's no information that points to either conclusion, I'm fine with that too. I just can't read the LNs to check to see if there's more info on it. Sorry for all the questions lol.

Time is reset to the year 2100(The time-line refer it to Loop start point, Jin appeared in the past before 2100 and therefore Hakumen remembers from an earlier phase were Noel didn't survive), but why 2100? Maybe that is as far as Amaterasu can go back to or Amaterasu has only chosen that time because anything before is irrelevant and doesn't need to be altered.

 

First thing, Read careful what Terumi says, the Prime Field met the Master Unit, that doesn't mean that it met the Amaterasu Unit, or maybe it did. In present Amaterasu Unit = Master Unit but has it always been like this? There sure wasn't a big golden satellite in the boundary when Master Unit was shown in XBLAZE.

And someone is inside the Amaterasu Unit at the present, that point have been hammered in ones head in CP (the girl who write the story, going to "kill" her, as long as her memories is intact the world can be reconstructed).

Now could that prime field be Amaterasu? Maybe, but I think there's to little info to make that decision.

Amaterasu seems to work very hard to make the current world continue to exist and fight against never ending despair. Would a random doll that gained a soul and later almost get killed and dumped into the boundary have the motivations to do this for what feels like thousands of years?

[raziel12]

thanks to Tokkan info its be confirmed that Murakumo Ragna from the anniversary artbook  name is. "Alpha No.01 -A-pocalypse

 

things starting to get more epic

[Chaoschao222]

It is still completely irrelevant and has no context. All it has is a name now. It still doesn't belong here.

[Stryker115]

Hey guys... quick question:

Why is Ragna's grimoire always being called a fake?

I thought it was more of a prototype than anything?

 

Also from reading about descriptions about Hazama/Terumi's and the one being made by Izanami I'm starting to think it may even be more like a subspecies or something.

[Zedar90]

Hey guys... quick question:

Why is Ragna's grimoire always being called a fake?

I thought it was more of a prototype than anything?

Ragna's Grimoire is a prototype for the Azure Grimoire, which is a portable cauldron with the main purposes to temper Kusanagi with the power of the boundary.

 

Now about it being called a fake, it's a real Azure Grimoire, however the Azure Grimoire is a fake/imitation of BlazBlue(蒼炎の書, Book of the Azure Blaze).

In other words, It's a real Azure Grimoire but a fake BlazBlue.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Wait, I thought Blazblue was simply just an alternate name for the Azure Grimoire?

[Zedar90]

Wait, I thought Blazblue was simply just an alternate name for the Azure Grimoire?

It happens that it's read as Blazblue but written as either 蒼の魔道書(For Ragna's) or 碧の魔道書(For Terumi/Hazama's) in the text, but they are the fake ones. The real deal is the one written as 蒼炎の書 in the text.

[kylehyde]

You know, I'd like to know what Azreal is going to be like in the next game. Now that his secret is out it will be quite easy for everyone to just avoid him entirely. Unless they remove that spell of his that only allows him to fight those who want to fight him.

[Rishtopher]

Question about that spell, actually. Just want to confirm that it was only placed on him after they had sealed him in that Freezer the first time? 

 

I really want them to explain where his power comes from though.

[Alpha to Omega]

Question about that spell, actually. Just want to confirm that it was only placed on him after they had sealed him in that Freezer the first time? 

 

I really want them to explain where his power comes from though.

 

Yeah, it was only placed on him after he was sealed, which is why he's surprised by it when S7 wakes him up.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I really hope they do more with all of the newcomers in the next game, Azrael had the most prominence and even he was just an obstacle to overcome the good guys.

[mAc Chaos]

Watch him be so strong that the he escapes the dimensional gate on his own.