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Kurushii

[CP] News & Gameplay Discussion

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I dont see any Tao on ArcRevo. What a shame.

 

IKR? She's my back-up should crap really hit the fan in CPII and Rel gets hit by the nerf truck and needs a guard-cat. It simply won't do to have his guard-cat in a full body cast too! I need her to be good!

 

Maybe they'll buff her palettes in CPII though. I hope so because then it will have all been worth it.

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^^Hahaha, Tao SS+ Tier CP 2.0 due to omission. Kidding aside, really no Tao? 

 

On Tsubaki, I wish I knew the things about her in Ex that i do now when I only subbed her. I did enjoy her though. I still have hard-read 214B/C habits from those days. I got milage out of it when used sparingly. 

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So the contents of the matches were fun in EX.

 

But I'd lose because I hit hakumen/ragna/hazama five times and then he'd hit me for the second time and I'd be dead. 

 

In Cp it's kind of like if I hit 5 times I'll win but I'll still die if I get hit 3 times and shit ain't fun either.

 

I'm still having fun. During the week I wake up at 6:30 AM every morning, open up my stock trading platform on one screen, hook up my other screen to the PS3, and head straight into the training room with a pile of 8.5x11 sheets of printer paper and a pen handy on my desk just to see how many unconventional gimmicks and strategies I can pump out to compensate for Tsubaki's faults. At the top of each hour I head into player matches or turn on ranked to test them out and tally down how often each worked as well as how long it took my opponent to learn how the gimmick worked if I fought them multiple times. I mean, these gimmicks are not as strong as the gimmicks of solid characters like Litchi or Koko could potentially be, but they help.

 

Matches are a similar scenario with me smacking the opponent hopefully 5 times and then getting smacked myself a couple times and then ded, but if I am lucky and they fall for my dirty tricks I only need to smack them 4 times or maybe even 3 times before I almost beat them but lose anyway. I used to do the same thing in EX but not as obsessively because I didn't even own the game I played. I have been super motivated to do so in CP for some reason.

 

On what Tsubaki needs, I just really want her to be rewarded finally. The amount of shit that she has to go through is ridiculous for what she gets out of it and, even though the suffering sort of fits canonically with her character, I want it to finally pay off. She needs to be rewarded for getting in because she really really sucks at staying in. I wish she had a way to deal with barrier or even mitigate it. I wish she could keep people from just leaving her pressure when they want to even when they don't instant block. I wish that spending a resource was worth what it took to get it, especially in her worst matchups. I have a ton of really crazy ideas, but I am feeling lazy and I have already written about one of them, so I'll stop here.

 

I hope that things will start looking up in the next loketest whenever that is.

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I would like to say there's a reason why Kagura got x nerfs because so many players were doing things with him...

BUT there's almost no Japanese Kagura players, and even those guys seem to drop basic combos.

I feel like this loke test was just like, "what do online players hate about some characters?  Ok lets nerf that."

Lets hope that they digest people's thoughts because if this is what 2.0 will be like, they better not be surprised if a lot of players don't pick it up.

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I think the only reason Kagura got nerfed was so people would notice him.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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I'm still having fun. During the week I wake up at 6:30 AM every morning, open up my stock trading platform on one screen, hook up my other screen to the PS3, and head straight into the training room with a pile of 8.5x11 sheets of printer paper and a pen handy on my desk just to see how many unconventional gimmicks and strategies I can pump out to compensate for Tsubaki's faults. At the top of each hour I head into player matches or turn on ranked to test them out and tally down how often each worked as well as how long it took my opponent to learn how the gimmick worked if I fought them multiple times. I mean, these gimmicks are not as strong as the gimmicks of solid characters like Litchi or Koko could potentially be, but they help.

 

Matches are a similar scenario with me smacking the opponent hopefully 5 times and then getting smacked myself a couple times and then ded, but if I am lucky and they fall for my dirty tricks I only need to smack them 4 times or maybe even 3 times before I almost beat them but lose anyway. I used to do the same thing in EX but not as obsessively because I didn't even own the game I played. I have been super motivated to do so in CP for some reason.

 

On what Tsubaki needs, I just really want her to be rewarded finally. The amount of shit that she has to go through is ridiculous for what she gets out of it and, even though the suffering sort of fits canonically with her character, I want it to finally pay off. She needs to be rewarded for getting in because she really really sucks at staying in. I wish she had a way to deal with barrier or even mitigate it. I wish she could keep people from just leaving her pressure when they want to even when they don't instant block. I wish that spending a resource was worth what it took to get it, especially in her worst matchups. I have a ton of really crazy ideas, but I am feeling lazy and I have already written about one of them, so I'll stop here.

 

I hope that things will start looking up in the next loketest whenever that is.

I just want the barrier buff removed. It kills many characters while doing nothing to others. This is plain stupid. Tsubaki, the way she is designed, obviously suffered the most from this buff.

 

This universal mechanic is too unfair to stay

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Well I think with her is that Barrier pushback + Most of Tsubaki's moves causing pushback with limited forward movement or vacuum on hit/block is what hurts her.

Then on the opposite spectrum, Azrael 236A even on Barrier IB pretty much leaves him right next to you since the forward momentum counters the pushback.

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So on moves that vacuum like Kagura's orbs or Rel's 2D/6A does instant block reduce the vacuum effect? Does Instant barrier increase it?

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I just want the barrier buff removed. It kills many characters while doing nothing to others. This is plain stupid. Tsubaki, the way she is designed, obviously suffered the most from this buff.

 

This universal mechanic is too unfair to stay

 

I do too. That or I want the barrier gauge mechanic to be expanded upon so that certain characters interact with it differently at a fundamental level instead of just having characters like Amane and then everyone else. I mean there are crush triggers that everyone has, but the risk/reward of using it for the sake of whittling down barrier is just wrong unless you're Terumi, Jin, or Hazama.

 

Well I think with her is that Barrier pushback + Most of Tsubaki's moves causing pushback with limited forward movement or vacuum on hit/block is what hurts her.

Then on the opposite spectrum, Azrael 236A even on Barrier IB pretty much leaves him right next to you since the forward momentum counters the pushback.

 

I would actually really really hate if Tsubaki got more prominent vacuum on hit because fuck Jin. I don't want people to have to deal with that. I want her to have a way to get around barrier, but something that cannot be abused or that isn't a giganto crutch like everything that Jin has. A decrease in pushback for some of her moves would definitely help.

 

It is really funny actually because in 2.0 Tsubaki won't be able to jump cancel out of a blocked 6C anymore, so pressure can 100% not be continued safely if the opponent barriers and she doesn't have 2 charges, not that 6C jc pressure was that safe to begin with. So what she will be forced to do when put up against barrier is charge cancel pressure which is ridiculously unsafe and even easier to disrespect because of how much farther Tsubaki needs to dash in order to get closer again due to the pushback or continuous perfectly spaced IAD pressure which will barely work because of how shitty her air normals are and how easily she will be AA'd.

 

I'm already getting used to having to do 421D > 236D when someone barriers just to keep them on the ground and attempt to eat up their barrier gauge.

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@Myoro:  I think the general mechanic for Instant Block is:

  • IB: Reduced pushblock, (Combined with 3 less frames of blockstun can allow your own pressure or reversal during normally airtight strings)
  • Barrier IB: Increased pushback (more than just Barrier along with 2 less frames of blockstun to give you distance and potentially make opponent whiff normals)

 

As far as vacuum effect normals...I think normal IB increases the vacuum effect and Barrier IB reduces (though normally doesn't nullify) the vacuum effect.  Don't quote me on that as I don't know 100% without testing normal block, IB, barrier, and IB Barrier to notice the difference on a move that has vacuum on block.

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I feel like this loke test was just like, "what do online players hate about some characters?  Ok lets nerf that."

You think so? I didn't even think they had any plans for the console version, at least until they've gotten the arcade version squared away.

 

But, yeah, I think they were just changing a bunch of odds and ends that people didn't like too much to see what people thought of the game without them.

Probably the test versions going forward are going to be a lot more focused now that they've got some more general feeback.

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BlazBlue already has fewer universal mechanics than most fighters.  Movement, defense, HP, negative penalty, heat gain, fall speed, OD duration, probably more stuff I can't think of off the top of my head...  All character specific.  Blocking and the barrier gauge are some of the only mechanics in the game that are truly universal.

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I wish that Instant Barrier was required to get the kind of pushback just holding down 4A+B does right now. I would actually be fine if Instant Barrier were buffed just to nerf regular Barrier. Like the barrier gauge would not drain during Instant Barrier or there is even more pushback than it currently gives right now. Regular Barrier is just too easy to use..

 

I guess I'm fine with it being universal, but it needs to be changed.

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I wish that Instant Barrier was required to get the kind of pushback just holding down 4A+B does right now. I would actually be fine if Instant Barrier were buffed just to nerf regular Barrier. Like the barrier gauge would not drain during Instant Barrier or there is even more pushback than it currently gives right now. Regular Barrier is just too easy to use..

 

I guess I'm fine with it being universal, but it needs to be changed.

 

When I notice my opponent barriering I tend to do a lot more stupid stuff with impunity. The fact that Relius' 5B is a god normal unto itself the pushback from Barrier makes it all but unpunishable. Often times I'll do stuff like 5B>5D>665B>5D>665B>5D>repeat. The 5D scares my opponent into thinking I'll use an ignis special or something, so it just goes on and on. The reality is they keep putting me in the perfect range to poke them over and over and pretty much anything they attempt at that range can easily be beaten or baited.

 

Rel can also adjust the timing of 6D and his follow-up from 6D and/or j.C in his blockstrings to take advantage of that extra frame of blockstun and negate the pushback.

 

All that serves to make barrier easy to deal with wen using Rel. I wonder if other characters have barrier exploits.

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Barrier is fine the way it is. You have to think about those characters without a dp. This ain't unib, where you can die if you are knocked down, up or sideways even once. Why even have rolls if that were the case. Barrier, ib barrier, ib normal block and the rest of the defensive options have their places, strengths and weaknesses on this game. I am mainly saying this because the nerfing or buffing of barrier any more could potentially throw off game balance in its current state.

Now, as for beating barrier. The options per character - or rather, terms - tend to be universal, with variations depending on spacing, timing, the player and character being played and how you choose to use your characters available options. To make this simple, most DPless characters can have their barrier beaten the same way: pressure resets, 5a/2a/throw pressure, utilizing plus frames. Because of the characters lack of dp you are only looking for them to jump, mash, back dash or one of the four blocks, which when out into perspective most of this can be beaten simultaneously with certain strings and option selects. So it is not too strong for them and is why you see amane players lose fast when caught slipping without heat or burst. When it comes to invul moves like Carl vivace or relius led ley these options still apply except the options now have to beat their move as well - not to hard, for most. This is still considered a variation.

Once dps come into play, anything that is not gapless is at risk, and substantially increases the chances of the dp character escaping. You guys should see me play litchi. Sometimes on wakeup if my foe expects dp I can just wake right up and super jump with not much worry, because beating a real DP is the opposite of the other options. Unless you have like a pumpkin or ignis or nirvana or a kokonoe etc, there... just isn't much you can do unless your character can safe jump. So barrier along with other options become way more scary. In the end all it is is a guess factor between more options that increase your chances of failing a string while also increasing your chances for massive reward.

Tsubaki tends to get the worst of everything. From not being able to see, to getting bodied by her lover, failing all of her missions, being the only girl to wear unflattering pants, to being low tier, she has been through it all. Can she beat barrier? It's hard, but yes. Literally everyone can at this stage of the game. You just have to be smart about it. Sometimes really smart depending on your character.

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Damn, somewhere in that Great Wall of china, I meant to say that beating dps are going to vary based on the character you are fighting and must be considered. So here it is. Beating dps ante going to vary bas-

You know what, whatever.

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Barrier is fine the way it is. You have to think about those characters without a dp. This ain't unib, where you can die if you are knocked down, up or sideways even once. Why even have rolls if that were the case. Barrier, ib barrier, ib normal block and the rest of the defensive options have their places, strengths and weaknesses on this game. I am mainly saying this because the nerfing or buffing of barrier any more could potentially throw off game balance in its current state.

Now, as for beating barrier. The options per character - or rather, terms - tend to be universal, with variations depending on spacing, timing, the player and character being played and how you choose to use your characters available options. To make this simple, most DPless characters can have their barrier beaten the same way: pressure resets, 5a/2a/throw pressure, utilizing plus frames. Because of the characters lack of dp you are only looking for them to jump, mash, back dash or one of the four blocks, which when out into perspective most of this can be beaten simultaneously with certain strings and option selects. So it is not too strong for them and is why you see amane players lose fast when caught slipping without heat or burst. When it comes to invul moves like Carl vivace or relius led ley these options still apply except the options now have to beat their move as well - not to hard, for most. This is still considered a variation.

Once dps come into play, anything that is not gapless is at risk, and substantially increases the chances of the dp character escaping. You guys should see me play litchi. Sometimes on wakeup if my foe expects dp I can just wake right up and super jump with not much worry, because beating a real DP is the opposite of the other options. Unless you have like a pumpkin or ignis or nirvana or a kokonoe etc, there... just isn't much you can do unless your character can safe jump. So barrier along with other options become way more scary. In the end all it is is a guess factor between more options that increase your chances of failing a string while also increasing your chances for massive reward.

Tsubaki tends to get the worst of everything. From not being able to see, to getting bodied by her lover, failing all of her missions, being the only girl to wear unflattering pants, to being low tier, she has been through it all. Can she beat barrier? It's hard, but yes. Literally everyone can at this stage of the game. You just have to be smart about it. Sometimes really smart depending on your character.

 

 

Thank the heavens for Izayoi

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Yeah; I don't necessarily think there needs to be any particular change to the barrier mechanic.

 

What there needs to be is an understanding on Arc System Works' part that this 'universal' change impacts some characters more than others and that it impacts Tsubaki quite severely because she really doesn't have the tools to do what she is supposed to do, and this change exacerbates that.   When characters like Hazama, who's primary M.O. isn't even "get in their face and stay there" have 3-4 ways to relatively safely restart their pressure (some of which even move him forward) and Tsubaki has 1, which requires a dash in which costs what little advantage it gives, there's something amiss.  What's the answer? I dunno, there are lots of options.  Make 214B 23 frames of startup and +2 on block?  Bring back the CS2 22C?  (Which broke a primer FFS).  Go back to having charge moves that are plus on block?  Not more random dumb nerfs like startup time on 236X and invuln time on 2C. x.x

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Tsubaki tends to get the worst of everything. From not being able to see, to getting bodied by her lover, failing all of her missions, being the only girl to wear unflattering pants, to being low tier, she has been through it all. Can she beat barrier? It's hard, but yes. Literally everyone can at this stage of the game. You just have to be smart about it. Sometimes really smart depending on your character.

 

I am super duper biased and you know it. I just get frustrated at how smart I have to be and how many risks I have to take in order to deal with it for what I get in return. I hope she'll still be able to deal with barrier in 2.0 with the direction her changes are going. Sorry about that.

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Tsubaki also has a command grab this time around. That'll get you through a Barrier pretty fast. Once they learn to fear that they'll usually respond in mash or chicken block, both of which can be exploited to torture the enemy if you know your frame traps and your blockstrings against chicken blocking opponents.

 

I think Barrier does need to be changed honestly. For how it is it's really really plentiful and even if you get an opponent in Danger state, the effect doesn't last nearly long enough to make much use of it (Unless you're Litchi, god love her.)

 

I've been playing this game a ton and I've only ever been put in danger state once, by an Amane no less.

 

I'd say make CT deal more barrier damage and Make Danger last longer, or even better, make danger state only begin to heal once you land a hit on the opponent or somethin' like that. The scarcity and penalty need to better match its great utility I feel.

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Tsubaki also has a command grab this time around. That'll get you through a Barrier pretty fast. Once they learn to fear that they'll usually respond in mash or chicken block, both of which can be exploited to torture the enemy if you know your frame traps and your blockstrings against chicken blocking opponents.

 

Once they learn to fear

 

Tsubaki

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Like that'll ever happen. See, it is just so easy to barrier hop out of her pressure it is just laughable. They don't need to think about retaliating because they can just leave, especially if you go for frame traps because of the intentional holes you leave in your strings. Then you have to run around again and catch them which it is incredibly difficult to do as Tsubaki without getting smacked.

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If they don't fear your tools you gotta work hard to make them.

 

If I see someone down-backing and barriering in my god dang pressure thinking they got the right to live, I'll unblockable them midscreen until they move mash or die IDGAF.

 

Point is, you're aware of a certain situation that isn't profitable to you, and now you gotta make the opponent think twice about putting you in that situation.

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