[CP] Valkenhayn vs Hakumen

[Kiba]

Discuss how you constantly lose to air grab > OD!

[50-50罠]

This fight is 6 - 4 in Valkenhayn's favor. It feels like it just boils down to footsie and taking advantage of Hakumen when resources are low. I paid a lot of attention to Haku's meter and walked inside and out of Agito range in wolf form to bait out Agito, once he whiffs it look for the falling jb or jc. Either whiffed falling atk seems to allow Valk to get in and start. If Hakumen is blocking I keep the wolf pressure light and look for 5d and 2d. I also went for lots of grab setups in this match. I found [w] 5c> 6d~brake~5d> 2b> or brake~5d> grab very helpful against Haku. Also 5c> brake~5c works really good as well.

Things worth mentioning: Haku's wake game. "So you got the knockdown".

When he has meter stocked bait everything. Make him use the resources and pray he doesn't attempt to air throw you. Hotaru, drive moves, and Yukikaze are all good reversals, however; they are easily defeated by [w]4d/7d, [w]5c, [w] command grab, or human b+c with a properly sighted read. Wolf 5c when spaced properly low pros Hotaru, grabs beat his counters, and rasen if you don't trust anything else to dodge and bait drive moves. His 236a can be used as well but isn't as relible seeing that normal & command grabs beat it. Also note meaty [w]jC beats Hotaru since the moves invulnerabilty isn't 1f.

Anti-air

5d> [w]5b and [w]4d were good ways to deal with Hakumen jump ins. 5d> [w]5b doesn't get the job done against Agito, but works great against Hakumen j2c. Also [w]ja is a strong option too, just careful not to eat jc when attempting it.

My last notes about Haku are always look out for grabs. He has some really legit ways to setup purp and green throws. Pay attention to his high/low strings (which if you block low react high, you're fine), and jump out when you can. I used a good amount of jump back jc to halt his pursuit from me jumping out. That's most of what I got so far. I hope this is helpful, because its my 1st time giving advice on dl.

Sayonara

Sent from my S3 using Tapatalk

[Dreize]

Same song and dance, different party.

Match-up is pretty similar to Extend. Things to note:

-His average damage output was nerfed. In Extend it was pretty much anything into renka > kishuu = at least 4k in the corner, but it's not like that anymore.

-His maximum practical damage output on the other hand was buffed due to OD. Try not to get blown up.

-Your w[5B] will still trade with his j.B a lot.

-His 6B CH now leads into a combo.

-His 6D no longer has 1 frame start-up which makes things easier, please keep in mind that his 2D/j.D/yukikaze still retain their 1 frame startup.

-His j.D now has a minimum height requirement, hah. He can combo off of it now though. It still has the least amount of active frames out of all of his counters, thus making it something that you wont see often.

-He gains meter very quickly now, stay on high alert for yukikazes.

-His 2B went from +2 to -4, it still retains all of it's previous gatlings if I'm not mistaken.

-His throw game is still great.

-His pressure is still laughable.

-He needs hotaru to combo off of tk.tsubaki now, you can technically burst but at that point you've already eaten 3.5k from the 2 special moves alone.

-He has a new anti-anti-air named agito. It only costs 1 magatama, and it looks like a downwards hotaru but has projectile properties. It will body your anti-airs and most Hakumens tend to follow-up it up with j.B.

-His 5D has more active frames, watch out.

-2D > Shippu now leads into 4k, try not to get blown up by this.

-His j.C now has wallstick properties.

-Raw rising j.C hits him crouching due to his large hitbox.

-His dash is faster now, it looks pretty funny.

-His aerial hitbox is less of a problem this time around due to our new combo routes.

-Hotaru was nerfed. And remember, it can still be meatied on wake-up due to the 4 frame jump start-up.

-He has this new move called zantetsu, it's actually useful in combos now. You'll be seeing it a lot more.

There are more changes that I could go over but this should be good enough for now.

What I Tend To Do In This Match-Up

I tend to play this match-up slowly at neutral, but not too slowly due to his meter gain buff. I really dislike going air-to-air with Hakumen so my goal is almost always to try and out maneuver him. Cross-under w[5B], cross-up w[j.A], 4D/7D shenanigans, well-spaced footsies with wolf mode, etc. Hopumen players love to jump around a lot, and a (AH) w[5B] confirm will almost always lead to the corner even in CP, thus it's usually my ideal hitconfirm at neutral. Watch out for some of his bigger hitboxes like j.2C and j.C. Remember, when you're going for a w[5B] anti-air confirm you're not beating him out due it's invulnerability (it's invulnerability is garbage, from frames 4-6 only), you're beating him out due to the sheer speed of the normal (7 frames start-up) coupled with the fact that you can freely run around with it via wolf mode. Because of this, you should always try to space yourself accordingly. But, watch out for agito, seriously. Baiting his 2C via jump in > 7D is also something that I like doing. On wake-up I tend to opt for highs a lot more now (such as rising w[j.C], which is a great starter) simply because his 6D no longer has 1 frame start-up. Overall his defensive options were definitely nerfed. Once I get in I try to be as relentless as possible but also stay cautious as getting blown up due to a bad read/mistake is not something that I enjoy.

Poor Hakumen player vs poor Valkenhayn player is in Hakumen's favor but strong Hakumen vs strong Valkenhayn is probably in our favor.

I enjoy this match-up nowadays, which is most likely due to it being my most played match-up in CP. The footsies can be pretty fun and you can really go to town on him for the most part.

I may add on to this later.

[Kiba]

-His pressure is still laughable.

'Still'? What makes you say his pressure is laughable? I've felt otherwise. Ofc it seems to be the case that it's lackluster when he has like one magatama, but when he has more, it becomes problematic.

-He has this new move called zantetsu, it's actually useful in combos now. You'll be seeing it a lot more.

Nah it's not new he's had it since CT.

[Magaki]

He's kidding man. His pressure isn't that great compared to the rest of the cast.

Same thing for Zantetsu otherwise he wouldn't have said "it's actually useful".

Getting back on topic, watch out for Agito cross-up/fake cross-up shenanigans. It's true it's not that rewarding if he lands it but his goal is to make you respect his pressure in order to make it drag as much as possible. Means more meter gain for him in the end.

[Kiba]

Ah I see.

I'm gonna add something on the pressure side of things. I'm not gonna say don't use lows on his wakeup, but take caution in doing so. Not only can he use 2D to catch you, but he can also use 6B to avoid our foot attribute attacks (w5A/w5C). His 6B has 1-22f invulnerability lol. People weren't kidding when they said abuse the highs on his wakeup. It's not very easy to time meaty rising wj.C as the timing varies on how and when the opponent techs, on his wakeup but using wolf brake j.A should be no problem most of the time.

Mix in a good amount of throws/command grabs too.

[Lord Knight]

Copy/pasted from directly from my notes.

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[General Thoughts]

Pretty boring matchup. The nerfed counters, so in the end it's easier to rush him down. As long as I play solid, it'll be fine.

 

[Round Start]

Hakumen is pretty limited, right? He only has one start to work with. Not really worth dice rolling unless they have a set pattern.

 

(Valk) - Backstep > wait and see, 4D > wait and see, IAD back jD, 5C, 3C, iad [jAA]

(Hakumen) - Backstep, 5C, 4C, 3C, Guren, IAD away

 

[Fullscreen Neutral]

Nothing much to note here besides the fact that Hakumen gains meter passively. So, unlike Litchi, unless I'm stalling to rebuild wolf meter, this situation shouldn't happen often.

 

[Midscreen Neutral]

• Agito - destroys [5B]. Using rising [jA] and doing air Konig should counter it. Air Konig will also beat airdashes in general if done early enough. Confirm with the usual stuff. JC will beat air Konig, J2A will win sometimes.
• JD - So, once you stop Agito reliably, you have to worry about this. It seems to have some sort of minimum height requirement (need to test???), but at the height they would do airdash Agito, they can do it anyways. Get just outside airdash Agito range > backstep > confirm situation, and react accordingly.
• Ground normals - You can punish any whiffed held normals (6C, 4C) with Konig on reaction. 5C has 20F of recovery, but the hitbox is too good... or something. If they like jumping > doing X air normal > land 3c, position yourself for the air normals to whiff, and [4D > jB] the 3C.
• Kishuu - [5C] this. You can't use Konig against this because the move is HB invul from 5-14.
• General strategy - Pretty much, they are going to hop around to try to gain meter, while keeping Valk out. He has no low that reaches as far as jC, so optimal spacing would be from just outside jC range to just outside his IAD range. When he airdashes, look for Agito/jD. When he's on the ground, it'll depend on how many stars he has, but look for Kishuu and 5C. When approaching him directly, mix up [jC] and [5C] - if he counters (except for Yukikaze), you can 7D/4D appropriately and evade the counter. Brake or dash back in [jB] depending on the opponents habits.

[Hakumen's Back to the Corner]

Happens more often than not when he has 4 stars or more. Midscreen neutral applies here.

 

[Valkenhayn's Back to the Corner]

• If he jumps/IAD's - Jaeger.
• If he's approaching from the ground > sj > dj > moonlight > 7D or 9D. If you use 9D just peace out. If you use 7D, brake, look at Hakumen's icon, and move accordingly.

[Hakumen's Pressure]

Easier to deal with than CSEX.

• 2B = -4
• 5A = +3 but whiffs crouchers, can only really do this off a jump in.
• 6A = -4 and can ONLY gatling into 6B. It is not special cancellable. His 2A is 7F startup so if you IB this, you can try to escape. 3C is 8F startup, but it's not an issue if you IB jump 6A.
• 5B = Even. Dangerous normal.
• 6B = Something like 18F(?). Anyway, you can't really react to it. 6A is the only gatling into this normal, but when done raw it's too fast. Possible to combo on CH. This move is also -4 so IB'ing the second hit is important (and easy after blocking the first hit).
• Tsubaki - fastest dash Tsubaki this game is 21F (should be able to react), tk Tsubaki is 19F (probably can't realistically react. A standing late throw tech (whatever method, as long as it's not raw B+C) should deal with this.
• Zantetsu - same usual netplay shit.
• Kishuu - Goes through CA, burst. Kishuu > Enma is FAST!!! But, it's only jump cancellable, so no worries.
• Renka - Move that kind of screws IB timing for some reason (I'm bad). +1. Again, barrier helps with this.
• Agito - They'll use dash Agito and IAD Agito for shenanigans. While I don't feel like it's "ambiguous" per se, it does give him a falling normal, that on stand guard would give him 5A into whatever. After blocking, jump IB or backstep.
• Summary - really, most of what he has is 2A > try to throw you/TRM you or catch whatever method you want to use to disrespect. Pay attention to his stars and be patient! And watch out for 6B! Barrier IB >>>>

[Valkenhayn's Pressure]

The usual shit. It's worth noting that it's way too hard to 4D/7D [JA] if he counters. Also, he can't counter [jA] after [5C] unless he does Yukikaze, or IB's [5C]. As usual, [5C > brake 5C] stops this. Brake Himmel has extra merit vs him as well.

 

[setplay]

• If Hakumen has less than 4 Stars - br[JA]. No reason to do ANYTHING ELSE. Spaced properly, Hotaru should whiff, 2D loses, and all counters lose since they don't have 1st frame catch.
• If Hakumen has more than 4 Stars - need to mixups br[JA], [5C], 3C, rising [JC], and throws. Yukikaze alone legitimizes all his other options. If you don't feel like dice rolling, stand directly in his face (where you could do all of the above stuff), and then backstep/walk away/IAD away. When they start doing wake up jump, it opens up doing meaty lows again.
• [5C] - If he has less than 4 stars, a spaced [5C] > 4D will make counter whiff, and you'll only get hit by the 2nd hit of 6B if he decides to do it. If you're point blank, 7D. Both hits of 6B will hit.
• [jC] - It's kind of hard to meaty this, but spaced properly it'll make Hotaru whiff too.