[CP] Tsubaki vs Bullet

[Kiba]

Discuss the Bullet matchup here!

[diospyros]

Bullet feels like the labrys in that u just can't let her get momentum. Rush her down in an non heat up state. If she's at level 3 afterburner, respect it and zone her out with 46 D/C, 631246B, and j236a.

[SoWL]

I'd like to note that a lot of Bullet's moves are invulnerable to projectiles. This is especially scary in her H2 state, where it takes so little time to make her Drive invulnerable. She can't do it if you're out of her circle of doom, though, so try to make her whiff it, wait until she cools down, or catch her while she's trying to Afterburner.

[Monarch]

Bullet is the kind of opponent you have to be cautious with. Charging Bullet while she's in her lvl 3 charge state will spell doom for you, if you're up against a player that knows there stuff.. It's best to simply rush her down with mix-ups and BnB's as soon as the match starts. If she ends up fully charged, evade her assaults and try to zone her out from getting too close. Rinse and repeat. One thing I feel I should stress (as mentioned above), is to stay out of the circles radius. It's not wise to fight her when she can easily grab you.

[Errol]

pretty good advice in here.

one point to emphasize some more. Make sure you're going to touch her. whether she has any heat or not, she's great at punishing you for trying to touch her and failing. if you whiff anything within the radius of that circle you are toast.

Don't blade super at neutral if she is charged unless your goal is to get charge yourself without any plans of trying to touch her.

[Tsubaki 5B]

ah good point but wouldn't it be better to let them use up their heat? when she attempts to hit you within her cycle of death and it's blocked she cools down a lvl

[BatousaiJ]

So if a Bullet player is perfectly happy to let you get charge on the other side of the screen while she gets heat levels of her own, who's getting the better of the exchange?

Who should be the one to act first?

I ran into a Bullet player that did this and although I beat him in the few games I played him, I feel like I might have misplayed in that aspect.

[Errol]

ah good point but wouldn't it be better to let them use up their heat? when she attempts to hit you within her cycle of death and it's blocked she cools down a lvl

the same holds true for when they don't have any heat. you just don't want to get hit by that, so play to minimize the risk of that. it's much easier to get punished if you whiff a j.B or air throw in this matchup than others.

So if a Bullet player is perfectly happy to let you get charge on the other side of the screen while she gets heat levels of her own, who's getting the better of the exchange?

Who should be the one to act first?

I ran into a Bullet player that did this and although I beat him in the few games I played him, I feel like I might have misplayed in that aspect.

I wouldn't take that exchange. Her damage, pressure gets much worse if she gets even a single charge. (On the other hand, i have let them get it and then ended up getting 3.7k off a 46D>236D, but that's not guaranteed, if she goes for it fast you won't necessarily have charge in time).

if she gets even a single heat I think she breaks 4k real easy off that j.D. but if you do end up allowing it, you need to be very careful. b/c if you try to get in and punish and she upbacked out in time - ouch.

in my opinion, it falls into a similar category as the setup characters. You have a disadvantage if you try to go in first but you can move around a bit easier.

I play it passive aggressive. I think you want to be in, that's pretty simple. But you have a disadvantage at neutral if you want to try to go in right away. But you can keep away from her easier than she can keep away from you. You can get charge without being exposed as she is if she gets heat. so play passive, maybe get a bit of charge, but go in if you see an opportunity and really try not to let her set up while doing it (i.e. gain heat).

Basically all because her air to ground is stronger than yours, her anti air is stronger than yours, her pokes are stronger than yours, and if you stay back too much, she gets more of an advantage than you do.

[BatousaiJ]

Makes sense.

How does Bullet's DP work? It seems like a weird grapple?

[Tsubaki 5B]

umm which one the B version has invincible frames on start up and can hit you while crouched but you can block it as for her C version her anti air one is i believe it's unblockable?

[Errol]

yeah it is nothing special. Or rather, it is exceptionally, i mean, exceptionally bad. You should not respect that shit on wakeup, looking again reminded me how bad it is. 15 frame startup. I wouldn't even try to safe jump this, just treat it like jin's C dp and do a 5a>5b and block it if it came out. It also gets lol damage, I think it is like 600 damage.

she's got an invuln 720 like tager that doesn't do that much damage unless she has 100 heat

she's got a proj invuln dash grab that can't hit you if you're low, but not generally a big deal, be aware of it

she's got an air throw thing she can do from the ground. I don't think it's that special but it is something to watch out for, I have been hit by a few times. untechable, and lots of head invuln, so if you're in the air at the time, you're out of luck (if you were to jump back and double jump back in the corner for example I think you're just a sitting duck)

[Tsubaki 5B]

her dash grab is ok but we can 3C delay C and get a free fatal some bullet's use it in block strings or sometimes they'll randomly do 3C which you can mash 2A out of tho 5D>2D or 5D>6D can be annoying to punish but do able the key is to watch their meter because bullet uses a lot of rapids lol

[Errol]

why would you delay 3cc?

[Tsubaki 5B]

why would you delay 3cc?

because if you do the second part of 3CC to fast she can actually grab you which looks strange

[Errol]

why wouldn't you just let the 3c hit then hit 3cc?

[chzchan]

Does her DP hit you if you use a jumping attack?

[Airk]

Does her DP hit you if you use a jumping attack?

Yes. Like most of Bullet's attacks, it's not a throw, it just looks like one.

I actually hate fighting this character now; It feels like the old Extend Ragna matchup, where her buttons beat all of my buttons, and everything leads into twice as much damage as my stuff.

[StylisH]

the same holds true for when they don't have any heat. you just don't want to get hit by that, so play to minimize the risk of that. it's much easier to get punished if you whiff a j.B or air throw in this matchup than others.

I wouldn't take that exchange. Her damage, pressure gets much worse if she gets even a single charge. (On the other hand, i have let them get it and then ended up getting 3.7k off a 46D>236D, but that's not guaranteed, if she goes for it fast you won't necessarily have charge in time).

if she gets even a single heat I think she breaks 4k real easy off that j.D. but if you do end up allowing it, you need to be very careful. b/c if you try to get in and punish and she upbacked out in time - ouch.

in my opinion, it falls into a similar category as the setup characters. You have a disadvantage if you try to go in first but you can move around a bit easier.

I play it passive aggressive. I think you want to be in, that's pretty simple. But you have a disadvantage at neutral if you want to try to go in right away. But you can keep away from her easier than she can keep away from you. You can get charge without being exposed as she is if she gets heat. so play passive, maybe get a bit of charge, but go in if you see an opportunity and really try not to let her set up while doing it (i.e. gain heat).

Basically all because her air to ground is stronger than yours, her anti air is stronger than yours, her pokes are stronger than yours, and if you stay back too much, she gets more of an advantage than you do.

 

I have yet to play against a Tsubaki, but this is a pretty accurate description.  You HAVE to take advantage of her slipping in neutral, because if we start getting Heat Up levels, it gets out of hand pretty quick.  I'm not a good Bullet player by any means, but even I know that you can't just RTSD against her out of the gate, it's basically suicide.

[Kiba]

I actually hate fighting this character now; It feels like the old Extend Ragna matchup, where her buttons beat all of my buttons, and everything leads into twice as much damage as my stuff.

 

Airk seriously.

 

Are you playing as Errol suggested above?

[Airk]

I'm trying. :P Her 2B is a major problem for me at neutral, since it's faster than 5B, about the same range, and low profiles it. Her 5B is hands down better than ours. Her j.C is absurd. All you need to do is lose once at neutral and she gets heat up and it's downhill from there. It seems like her heat up is easier to get (guaranteed one level from most combos) and way more effective than our charges.

All Errol's advice seems to boil down to is "play a very elusive neutral game and try to get charge without letting her get heat up" and honestly, I don't see how to do that; If I charge, it's like saying "Now is a safe time to do afterburner."

So maybe I just need advice on how to play neutral in this matchup? 2A more? 5C more? Seems like it's hard to get to the range for these with her 5B being what it is.

[chzchan]

Yeah her 2B is a gigantic Fuck You every time it happens. See, the problem here is that even if she does not have heat levels specifically against you, she is still at an advantage and I know a few Bullet players that know this. They do not focus on getting heat and focus more on making sure they are at an advantage. They never ever use Afterburner in neutral and are always on me as if they are using Errol's strategy with Tsubaki and Bullet reversed. The problem is that I am kept on the ground by her j.C, 6B, and 623C and if she chooses not to end her pressure with a level 0 5D, I don't get the punish and I go back to playing keepaway from her great normals until I get cornered. I also have a hard time baiting and punishing her DP for some reason, but that is probably my problem.

 

Another thing that just aggravates me that really does not have much to do with difficulty fighting her is that she can go into a full combo off of a max range 5B just like Ragna. Damn does that make me angry. I wish we had something like her 5C that advanced the length of the a max range poke.

[Kiba]

It doesn't sound like you guys are disrupting her movement much in neutral with fireballs. 421A? If she jumps over it you can air throw her or AA her. This is something that applies to most other characters.

 

j.236A? Normally they use afterburner, and if you're too far out you won't be able to get her unless they get greedy with the charge. You should charge yourself instead then. If not, and you're in range you should punish her for it if she commits. It's as said before, you need to play passive aggressive. Disrupt her approach but you need to rush her down at times to avoid letting her get into heat up state.

 

Are you using j.236A oki against her? You should be. The fireball doesn't have a lot of blockstun so you need to act quickly to avoid being caught by the DP. Watch Kuresu's matches against Bullet. Heck you can even use meaty 2A while holding back to block her DP should she use it on her wakeup. That's something I just found out now. It's slow and shouldn't be respected at all. (people really need to study)

 

Barrier blocking against her helps.

[Airk]

It doesn't sound like you guys are disrupting her movement much in neutral with fireballs. 421A? If she jumps over it you can air throw her or AA her. This is something that applies to most other characters.

 

j.236A? Normally they use afterburner, and if you're too far out you won't be able to get her unless they get greedy with the charge. You should charge yourself instead then. If not, and you're in range you should punish her for it if she commits. It's as said before, you need to play passive aggressive. Disrupt her approach but you need to rush her down at times to avoid letting her get into heat up state.

Neither of these really GAINS me anything though. They don't earn me any meaningful time to charge, and a patient opponent isn't going to run into them either. 421A is almost completely useless because she can just cancel it with her own fireball or do that stupid running grab through it if you do it too close.

 

Are you using j.236A oki against her? You should be. The fireball doesn't have a lot of blockstun so you need to act quickly to avoid being caught by the DP. Watch Kuresu's matches against Bullet. Heck you can even use meaty 2A while holding back to block her DP should she use it on her wakeup. That's something I just found out now. It's slow and shouldn't be respected at all. (people really need to study)

Her DP and her wakeup game really aren't an issue for me at all; Yes, j.236A oki works reasonably well when I can use it. It's really neutral that I struggle with.

I'm going to go watch some videos of this match, because it seems super frustrating to me right now, though I'm sure plenty of that is my garbage execution, but getting hit for 4k+ off random crap in neutral is really discouraging.

[chzchan]

I feel as if things have gotten significantly harder, but this is mostly because I am getting beat up by my buddy who plays Bullet.

 

Her j.D startup was nerfed so it is easier to air grab her if she is low on heat, but it is still very very difficult to approach her if your opponent is playing reactively especially because you have zero normals that beat hers and it is incredibly easy for her to punish whiffing or mistiming anything when you when you are near her.

 

With her drive changes, I feel that if she gets even 1 heat level you pretty much already lose because of how much reward she gets plus her ability to keep her flame lit without spending meter using special cancellability. Also, the fact that she bounces back when you block her drive even when low on heat makes it pretty much impossible for Tsubaki to punish her even on IB because of the distance she is placed at after bouncing away. It is just very very difficult to deal with her drive and I'd say she is much much scarier in this iteration.