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Kiba

[CP] Tsubaki vs Mu-12

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I think the one thing that people need to remember in this matchup is that you need to be patient with how you move around when there are steins around. It may be better to sit/jump and block rather than trying to look for a way in, especially when you don't even have charge. Sure Mu gets in easier against you but she doesn't have much going for her in terms of mixup. Her 6B is unsafe now if it's not followed up, but she now has the ability to stein cancel it making it safer. I haven't been successful in punishing this because she could just DP after the stein cancel. So then you've got another silly guessing game going on here:

-She can DP after stein cancel. If you block you can punish, and if you try to punish you get hit

-She can opt not to DP after stein cancel, so if you're committed to blocking, she can get away or go for more pressure.

It may be better for you to try and get away, but returning the pace to neutral isn't really want you want. Her normals are way better than ours and trying to challenge the main 5C isn't a good idea. At times I try to challenge her 5C with 22B CH when I'm charging in neutral and she wants to try and punish me for it (because I'm real stubborn), but the win ratio is very small unless I do it extremely early. If you manage to get to the point where she's spamming lasers from far and you can't get in, the only thing I can recommend is either a well timed [4]6D > 236D, or if you have no charge, you'll just have to block. Unless it's Totsuka (command laser), the lasers don't do any chip damage so sitting back and blocking may be the best thing even if it's gonna result in a time out. Like I said you'll have to be patient, being impatient and trying to rush in is exactly what the Mu wants.

Blade super can be useful in this matchup when you're trying to get in, but you need to keep an eye out on which steins are gonna fire lasers. You want to use it at the right time where the laser will go through you and you can try to get in. What you don't want is the laser hitting you out of the blade super startup.

You need to make a choice at match start. Try and rush her down but you'd need to try and get around her normals, or sit back and charge for a bit, but doing this allows her to setup. Whichever you choose depends on how you feel tbh.You may want quick access to D fireball and [4]6D > 236D, or you may be a little impatient (like me) and just want to kill her asap. Her stuff like IAD back j.C does a very good job at trying to space you if you're rushing in so be careful with that.

For character specifics, please remember that corner 623C > Delay j.214A does not work on Mu.

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Despite all the odds against us in this MU, I really love playing it. There's nothing more rewarding than baiting a DP and punishing it. Still, I have a question. What's a good strategy for keeping Mu in the corner? Any reliable/safe oki she can't DP out of?

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Good strategy for keeping Mu in the corner? It's pretty much the same for most other characters. The type of pressure you use depends on the type of player you're facing. Defensive opponent? More 6A/throws and command grabs. Mashy opponent? Frame traps and 5A xN.

In terms of the oki, you can use combos into 22D enders and followup with 6C > [4]6C, or use blade super, but you're using up resources for that.

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236B/C seems sorta useful to use at match start. After watching Kuresu use it multiple times, I was wondering why and tested it out for myself.

It works if the Mu commits to 5C, SoD, or backdashig at match start. However, it'll lose to 2B, and if the Mu uses a backwards airdash j.C.

With regards to oki, I just use combos into 22D > 6C > [6]6C or j.236A. I sacrifice charge with the former but I'd rather have that than have a hard time dealing with Mu's DP. I don't really use the blade super for oki, rather for neutral when I can't deal with steins.

On yeah, if she uses Habaya in neutral or tries to use it for pressure, you can IAD over it and hit her with j.CC or you use [4]6D > 236D.

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236B/C seems sorta useful to use at match start. After watching Kuresu use it multiple times, I was wondering why and tested it out for myself.

It works if the Mu commits to 5C, SoD, or backdashig at match start. However, it'll lose to 2B, and if the Mu uses a backwards airdash j.C.

Doesn't j.2c hit tsubaki out of her 236b (and more importantly 22b or whatever 22x Tsubaki uses)? Atleast a well placed j.2c

edit: apparently j.2c does not work very well unless you airdashed a little backwards

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Is there anything I can do to challenge Mu's j.5C, or am I going to have to move around it?

I thought that 2a goes under it, unless its changed in bbcp?

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Just had a fun fun fun match where the Mu just sat on the other side of the screen and spammed D. What do you do against this if you have no charge?

 

I had to look for tiny gaps probably created by latency where I could charge for a split second until I hit 2 stocks. I got a nice 4[6]D > 236D counterhit, but they just bursted and I ended up in the same position again and they spammed D until my health was just below theirs when the timer ran out. I even cycled between barrier and regular guarding to try and prolong my demise, but nope.

 

What do you do in this situation?

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don't let it happen. End of Story.

 

So like not getting magnetized or not getting cornered by Wolf Mixupâ„¢?

 

Oh and after reading I realize now that if a Mu never decides to go on the offensive and you haven't dealt a sufficient amount of damage, you lose. I have only run into a few of them online that actually try to win using the round timer like the one I described earlier, but when it does happen I want to rip my hair out.

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Mu's regular lasers don't chip, so there is no reason to get yourself get killed by recklessly going in. You can still slowly advance with things like use a small dash and barrier cancel to slightly move forward it or by super jumping , because there are still gaps between the lasers.

Also watch out for Mu's j.c or j.2c while she is in the air after setting some steins or her option of dp cancelling her steins (beating 4[6]D > 236D on reaction)

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Yeah I kinda talked about this in my second post you know....

 

If it gets to that situation and have the health lead, let her come to you. Her mixup isn't scary. If not, what Bakahyl said. Super jump with j.214X is useless btw.

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yeah, I pretty much just block when it gets to this situation.  if she has the life lead, you are pretty screwed.

 

if she doesn't have the life lead, just sit there and block and wait. if you try to charge to be able to do 46d>236d or something, you are going to take damage, and she might get the life lead then.

 

Even if you get the charge to 46d>236d, there is plenty of time for her to dp it on reaction. not to mention, most of the time you won't even get it out because you'll get hit before proj invuln goes active.

 

mostly would not recommend trying to instant block either. you'll take damage.

 

You don't see this a whole lot because it is a long, extended, boring situation on both ends. even if they have the life lead they'll usually go in on netplay if you just block. tournament play would probably be different.

 

Dumb char.

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Yeah, I was going to come in and say something what Kiba did in post #2:

 

 

 


Blade super can be useful in this matchup when you're trying to get in, but you need to keep an eye out on which steins are gonna fire lasers. You want to use it at the right time where the laser will go through you and you can try to get in. What you don't want is the laser hitting you out of the blade super startup.

 

:P

 

Sorry, apparently I suck at the new forums, because the Syntax isn't Quote=Kiba anymore? x.x

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Even though 421D > 236D wasn't that great of an option before, now that its anti-zoner utility got its knees cracked, what now? The Steins have limited range now as well, but they are still a wall.

Still have never gotten proper footing in this matchup. Best I can do is 236B at round start and watch her 5C whiff and then have a good laugh after the knockdown before I immediately lose momentum because of guessing wrong on her wakeup. And this only ever works once.

Also even though her 6B got "nerfed", I feel like I still have trouble blocking it, especially if they space themselves to make the first hit whiff. It just seems like they gave her 6B longer range in total instead of nerfing its mixup potential by making the first hit a mid. The second hit still comes out in 22 frames, so if she is at a range where the first hit will whiff (which is where she usually is when she is applying pressure), it is just as scary if not more scary because of how far forward it moves her. I see her doing it after I block a 5C when she is at her safe range and then the first hit whiffs and I have never blocked the second hit. Probably my fault, but I'm getting hit by it randomly after I block her C moves way more often. Her 5C is a level 4 move which means that there is a 4 frame gap between 5C and the second hit of 6B. That catches jump startup, right? She wasn't always able to do that, right? No problem blocking it if the first hit doesn't whiff.

Air grabbing her out of her j.2C is really difficult now for some reason as well. Used to do it all the time but it just doesn't happen anymore.

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Airgrabbing her out of j.2C was never easy. I ate -so- many CH j.2Cs because of it's stupid hurtbox.

 

This matchup just sucks more every iteration.

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That's really scary actually. So now it went from being nearly impossible to hit her in the air to actually being impossible. Great.

 

For now I'm going to try and think of what can be done to hit her out of her 6B if she is at the range to hit with the first part. I think it is a body attribute move so maybe 214B or 214D may be useful here if you aren't being shot by the bits while she is pressuring you.

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The problem is that anytime that Mu can go into 6B (except, oddly, off 5A, which Mu like never uses, anyway) she can also go into 2B, which is stupid good, and will wreck any option you try to use that beats 6B.

 

Your best bet against 6B is to block it, ideally, IB it, so you can just punish and have done, since she has basically no options on a blocked 6B (but if you're, y'know, playing Nemesis, you'll get DP'd for trying to punish it unless you're careful and/or IB).

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Apparently they added gatling paths into and out of 6B so things have completely changed. And yeah, I am fighting Nemesis. He's the only person I have gotten 2.0 Mu-12 matchup experience from.

 

Her 6B is completely safe now because she can just go into any C move after you block it and she can also go into it now out of any of her C moves as well. Her mixup is pretty safe now and much more flexible.

 

She can do blockstrings like: 2B > 5C > 6B > 5C > 6C

 

Out of any C normal (that isn't 6C) she can also do 3C, so 5C > 6B/3C is a pretty legit mixup. The gap between 5C and the second hit of 6B catches jump startup as well so you have to block it or DP. Problem is that when she is at the range where the first hit of 6B will whiff, she can easily make Tsubaki's DP whiff by simply not attacking because 5C is just so ridiculous.

 

It is literal suffering. You are actually stuck blocking now and you cannot punish her while she is making you block.

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Okay if you IB her 5C I am pretty sure you can jump out if you do it fast enough and it actually leaves a big enough gap for 214B/D's body invuln to kick in so you don't get FC'd by her 6B. Still really tricky because she can just fuck you with 3C or 6C since 3C will still catch jump startup if you IB and 6C will FC you if you try to 214X.

 

5C is also a prime target for ODR if you are feeling super ballsy.

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The problem is that anytime that Mu can go into 6B (except, oddly, off 5A, which Mu like never uses, anyway) she can also go into 2B, which is stupid good, and will wreck any option you try to use that beats 6B.

 

Your best bet against 6B is to block it, ideally, IB it, so you can just punish and have done, since she has basically no options on a blocked 6B (but if you're, y'know, playing Nemesis, you'll get DP'd for trying to punish it unless you're careful and/or IB).

 

5a whiffs on crouchers, so it's not exactly the best move to gattle 6b on. Not to mention being a lvl 1 move , it only has 11f blockstun and the new 6b being 16f , you can mash out of it on ib

 

6b can indeed be gattled in any c normal and special. So overhead is safe again

 

Barrier blocking can mess up c normals into 6b because of the pushback

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