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Kiba

[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Q&A Thread

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What is "absurd level god tier?"

As for tier ratings, who the heck knows. First Hakumen was the CP god that everyone feared who was said to be da bess', then it was Litchi, and now we're all riding the Kokonoe hate train. Things change. The interesting thing about CP is that there are just so many strong characters that are possible contenders for S tier spots (Taokaka, Kokonoe, Hazama, Jin, Relius, Hakumen, Litchi, Valkenhayn, Rachel?, etc).

^THIS

Keep also in mind that a lot of people say that Valkenhayn is braindead/retarded. Most of the time, those biased opinions come from people who never played him nor even tried to learn how to deal with his pressure. If you're asking us, I'm certain that it's because you definetely think that he's good but not godtier and that's pretty much the truth in my opinion.

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The human race is full of whiners, and fighting game players (and competitive gamers in general) are some of the whiniest of all. I have heard so much whining (usually baseless and often 100% factually incorrect) about nearly every character in every game I have ever played, it's absurd.

Just ignore it. Resist the urge to argue, because when people are whining they usually are not prepared to logically debate and most likely would not change their mind even if confronted with a sound argument.

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Has anyone else had issues ajusting to the new button placement of the wolf dashes or is it just me and if so any suggestions on how to get used to it ?

Err, yes. Everyone has. I've gotten used to most of it, still having issues with the new wolf brake input though. Unintentional w[j.C]'s coming out at superjump height when I'm nowhere near my opponent are very annoying.

There is no real trick to getting used to it. Just grind it out really hard. Ingrain the new inputs into your mind, make it all muscle memory through consistent practice.

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Ok Im just haveing priblems with movent then because the brake and combos arnt an issue for me at the moment

I'm talking about using the brake during movement/pressure.

How practical are the w5c loops?

Eh, not really sure how to answer this question. They're not particularly easy, that's for certain, and probably not a really good idea on netplay either. They're very wolf meter intensive as well.

Most Jap Valkenhayns opt to stay away from the Wolf Sweep Loop, but I feel as though it has it's uses. It'll take some serious work but I feel as though I can get it down, make sure to learn at least 2 reps for wolf pressure though.

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After practicing for a while, w[5C] loop is a bit easier than it looks. Something of note is that it should probably be notated as w5C->[3D->4C]xN, as 4C automatically gives you another w5C if you time it correctly. When you notate as w[5C->3D->4C]xN, it gives the impression that you must hit 5C again after the 4C, and while this seems to work sometimes, it adds another level of execution that isn't necessary. Still not "easy" but much more attainable than I initially thought. I've gotten up to 5 so far.

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It's something that was discussed and shared in the gameplay section indeed. The notation you gave is much clearer though.

I don't know if you're already aware of it but keep in mind that the wolf loop in overdrive doesn't have the same timing as without it. You have to pretty much train separately to get the proper muscle memory. It was a detail that I wasn't aware of when I first trained with it.

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Something of note is that it should probably be notated as w5C->[3D->4C]xN, as 4C automatically gives you another w5C if you time it correctly. When you notate as w[5C->3D->4C]xN, it gives the impression that you must hit 5C again after the 4C, and while this seems to work sometimes, it adds another level of execution that isn't necessary.

You are correct. I've made the change, thanks man.

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Not really sure if I agree with this, it's notated like that for a reason.

I want people to know that they do indeed need to hit people with several w[5C]'s for the combo to work. Simply notating it as [3D > 4C] xN just looks like a command dash & the wolf brake. Even though you're technically not inputting another w[5C] after the w[4C] I want people to know that the opponent will get hit by a w[5C] after the brake.

The best way to do this would be just to leave it as [5C > 3D > 4C] xN and make a note about holding the w[4C] and about how the combo works in the OP.

This way people can't complain about abstract notation and leaving things out.

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That's what I first thought too but it only applies to people who never saw the wolf loop before. Never saw as in it's the first time they hear about it. However, most people tend to first watch combo movies then read guides once they want to improve their game and Titanium Beast's notation are suitable for that because it's meant for people who already know about it.

I honestly think however that whatever the notation, an explanation must follow for anyone attempting to do it for the first time as it still confuses a lot of people.

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Yeah, but see, then we're assuming that everyone who visits the combo thread has already seen the Wolf Sweep Loop before. Which isn't always going to be the case. At least with my way they can see that yes w[5C]'s are indeed in the combo and it's not just a command dash & wolf brake being repeated. And even then they might be confused about the holding.

I do agree with that last bit about an explanation being important no matter which way we choose to notate it.

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Come to think of it, it's true that trying to generalize it will only make it clear for a selected amount of people. Advanced players will read the explanation either way in order to be certain they fully understand it so Dreize's notation is the one having the most advantage for anyone reading his thread.

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I'm more with Titanium Beast on this one and sorry I don't mean any offense. I sorta understand where you're coming from Dreize, but I don't want people to misread it. The last thing I'd want is to give people the impression that they have to input another 5C. I do agree with you guys that an explanation is in order and I'll work on providing a detailed explanation later on.

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Meh, as long as an explanation is provided I'm cool with either way. Possibly even a video tutorial for the Wolf Sweep Loop.

No offense taken in the slightest Kiba, debating/talking about these sorts of things is good.

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Meh, as long as an explanation is provided I'm cool with either way. Possibly even a video tutorial for the Wolf Sweep Loop.

No offense taken in the slightest Kiba, debating/talking about these sorts of things is good.

Thanks. Video tutorial on wolf sweep loop? I'll think about it unless someone beats me to it.

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236B is character specific yeah. However, you have to hit most of the time the opponent with the tip of 3C's vertical hitbox for 100 more damage and you have less frames to oki than if you just did 3C if you succeed.

Those are the reasons why I didn't bother doing it nor making a character specific list.

However, after watching some videos of Uma no Hone lately, it seems that 236B's goal isn't to get more damage but to be used against people who abuse delayed wake-up (To be more specific, he uses 236B>236B and then 5C.). I'll do more tests later and make a proper list.

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236B is character specific yeah. However, you have to hit most of the time the opponent with the tip of 3C's vertical hitbox for 100 more damage and you have less frames to oki than if you just did 3C if you succeed.

Those are the reasons why I didn't bother doing it nor making a character specific list.

However, after watching some videos of Uma no Hone lately, it seems that 236B's goal isn't to get more damage but to be used against people who abuse delayed wake-up (To be more specific, he uses 236B>236B and then 5C.). I'll do more tests later and make a proper list.

Oh I see. Thanks.

Doing to 236B to catch delayed tech seems risky to me though. Yea I think I'll stick with 3C in any case, seems like a smart move when you mention the frame advantage.

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