[Xrd] I-No Gameplay Discussion

[TheRealBobMan]

It's hard to use that clip as solid evidence because of the camera shift on Desperation, but it looks like j.D's recovery time was shortened.  It's I think 8 frames even if you FDC it, but right there it looked like he was able to backdash immediately upon touching the ground.  If that move has only 1-3 frames landing recovery now that's a huge buff to our mixup and defensive options (I'm assuming it has at least that since all j.D moves have landing recovery by convention in AC, not sure about older games).  Might even make up for 2S being a mid again.

 

*Edit*

 

So I was wondering about YRC Fortissimo, and after that Desperation "Oh crap I'ma whiff > YRC" vs Bedman, now I REALLY wanna see someone do that.  Or like...  oki VCL > YRC > j.D FDC crossup > Fortissmo.

 

*Edit 2*
So at 39:08, I-No does 5P > IAD > command throw for a reset, then follows up with Pdive > dash > Pdive.  So... command throw restores jump options. 

[OneSanitarium]

U-zen has some really clever command grab usage. 5P IAD is pretty cool, and even seen him do it from the standard 6P>5H>IAD>j.K>j.S>delay commandgrab. Really cool that it restores options too, good catch.

[OneSanitarium]

First of all, 53 minutes of U-zen.

 

Second, 2K can still? go under Bandit Bringer.

[TheRealBobMan]

Gonna love watching those videos next.  Just started on the first one you posted today and noticed this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ctXncOj_TU&t=0m57s

 

I'm like 90% sure that 5H would have whiffed at this height in AC/+R.  Vertical hitbox buff?  Or just May's hurtbox?  I mean, May was high enough that her j.2H lost to I-No's 6P (though it might have been just a tad late).  In any case, she's above waist height when 5H connects.

 

 

*Edit*

The curse returns at 2:58.  That goddamn activation range...

 

 

*Edit 2*

Does I-No always use her angry voice set vs Sol?

[OneSanitarium]

I think she uses her Boss voice against Axl and Sol, at the very least.

[Clousephinat]

Question, after thinking a while about this "Slash R+" I-No we have now, I remembered how in previous games you could use VCL after a succesful Dust in the corner a lot of times (specially in Reload (EX) and Slash) as a combo, but with the Dust animation I suppose it's impossible to do it now, or hopefully I'm wrong?

[OneSanitarium]

The reason that worked was because of instant VCL, VCL, VCL, hitting the opponent on the way up from the dust causing an impossible dust scenario. It won't be able to work now, I don't think, because homing after 5D puts you pretty high up before you can do anything, though recovery of VCL IS pretty fast. Maybe you can be retarded and Dive RC to the ground and do it lol. Would be a waste of meter though, probably.

 

5D>6 is probably the way to go with I-no, since I don't think you'll be able to get as easy a knockdown>Oki situation from the jump. Can probably loop VCL a few times before they slide to the ground too.

 

Theoreticalprobablynotathingcombothatwouldbecoolifitworks: 5D>6>j.S>VCL>5S>VCL>5S>VCL>6P>5S>VCL RC>5L>VCL>5P>sj.P>j.S>j.236K  I really can't wait to play this game.

[Antitidus]

The reason that worked was because of instant VCL, VCL, VCL, hitting the opponent on the way up from the dust causing an impossible dust scenario. It won't be able to work now, I don't think, because homing after 5D puts you pretty high up before you can do anything, though recovery of VCL IS pretty fast. Maybe you can be retarded and Dive RC to the ground and do it lol. Would be a waste of meter though, probably.

 

5D>6 is probably the way to go with I-no, since I don't think you'll be able to get as easy a knockdown>Oki situation from the jump. Can probably loop VCL a few times before they slide to the ground too.

 

Theoreticalprobablynotathingcombothatwouldbecoolifitworks: 5D>6>j.S>VCL>5S>VCL>5S>VCL>6P>5S>VCL RC>5L>VCL>5P>sj.P>j.S>j.236K  I really can't wait to play this game.

You wrote 5L, I'm guessing you mean 5S. I think the combo would drop a j.236K when I think about it, probably even at j.S. But yeah, I'm really looking forward to VCL loops. I also can't wait to add the 6Hs to the combos, I thought it looked stylish.

[OneSanitarium]

I don't know why I just noticed it, but she not only doesn't build any RISC gauge with either Chemical Loves, but Note doesn't build any either. Dive seems to build a little bit, and she can get a decent burst of it from simple things like hoverdash>j.K>j.S>blockstrings, but she seems overall not that great at building it in general.

[Clousephinat]

The reason that worked was because of instant VCL, VCL, VCL, hitting the opponent on the way up from the dust causing an impossible dust scenario. It won't be able to work now, I don't think, because homing after 5D puts you pretty high up before you can do anything, though recovery of VCL IS pretty fast. Maybe you can be retarded and Dive RC to the ground and do it lol. Would be a waste of meter though, probably.

 

5D>6 is probably the way to go with I-no, since I don't think you'll be able to get as easy a knockdown>Oki situation from the jump. Can probably loop VCL a few times before they slide to the ground too.

 

Theoreticalprobablynotathingcombothatwouldbecoolifitworks: 5D>6>j.S>VCL>5S>VCL>5S>VCL>6P>5S>VCL RC>5L>VCL>5P>sj.P>j.S>j.236K  I really can't wait to play this game.

 

VCL was that fast as well in Reload (EX) and Slash, that's the main reason why I'm keep saying her version of Slash is much better than AC (although playing with her in R+ is really fun too), I guess this was changed in AC because of the FB probably.

 

I remember in one ocassion I was able to do RC with SP input K WITHOUT being counted as a counter and was able to do some combos :P (I must say it wasn't a waste of meter really, but achieving it was pure luck more than anything else), I'm sure in Xrd would be now really easy to do.

 

PD: Sorry for the delay, it seems I have a few problems with the internet this days :/

[OneSanitarium]

Xrd I-no, just from what I've seen, may end up being one of her best versions, guard meter aside. Her HCL is #R in that it's really untechable and you can meterlessly combo after it in the corner, VCL is really fast and strong, she has good Dives for combos.

 

In #R, dunno about Slash, her dives on a grounded opponent would pretty much just launch them and allow for a combo after wards, unless your talking about post #R with the combo after j.236K thing.

[TheRealBobMan]

I don't know why I just noticed it, but she not only doesn't build any RISC gauge with either Chemical Loves, but Note doesn't build any either. Dive seems to build a little bit, and she can get a decent burst of it from simple things like hoverdash>j.K>j.S>blockstrings, but she seems overall not that great at building it in general.

 

 

I'm almost positive I saw note building guard bar, but that might have been a pre-release build.

 

 

Maybe it looks like she's not good at building RISC because of guard balance.  That was one of those mechanics that wasn't poorly understood and explained in the dustloop wiki / old system data, but some characters resist having their guard cranked more than others, and some are more susceptible to it.  It's possible that mechanic is still there, and maybe your recent sample was against characters that resist it?  I don't know.  *fart*

[OneSanitarium]

I'm almost positive I saw note building guard bar, but that might have been a pre-release build.

 

 

Maybe it looks like she's not good at building RISC because of guard balance.  That was one of those mechanics that wasn't poorly understood and explained in the dustloop wiki / old system data, but some characters resist having their guard cranked more than others, and some are more susceptible to it.  It's possible that mechanic is still there, and maybe your recent sample was against characters that resist it?  I don't know.  *fart*

 

j.S>c.S>5H built a good amount, but then when Slayer blocks note, nothing. I'd have to check how much STBT builds, maybe it's a huge amount and that's why you get very little from it, even on CH. :V Builds ton-o-RISC, but nothing guaranteed on normal hit, and MAYBE a 5K on CH.

 

edit: 632146H builds less on guard than the j.S>c.S>5H string lol. Also, H STBT on CH lets you a guaranteed 6P if you're close enough at least.

 

AND it seems note DOES build RISC, but it's so damn small. At least it's still decently safe oki.

 

edit2: Wanted to find a STBT on a Slayer. Seems S STBT build about as much as a 5H would have?

[TheRealBobMan]

They were both lvl 5 previously, so that makes sense.  I wonder if you still build 1/2 the value when they're in block stun.

 

 

So... CH STBT-H > 6P > STBT-S for meter gain and corner push?

[OneSanitarium]

I'd think, as long as 5H would connect after the 6P, you'd may want to just do CH H STBT>6P>5H>IADj.K>stuff. From the same 720p video, the combo was H STBT>6P>5H before the round ended. Through meter usage, 6P>S STBT>5K>HCL>stuff may be better damage?

[TheRealBobMan]

6P > 5H > Hdive builds more meter (or at least used to... Hdive is around 15% by itself), but at 20/25 damage X3 hits, you'd get more damage off of 6P > STBT combos (STBT building about 9%) because of damage scaling.  It'd also probably be more useful at mid screen since Hdive really only combo'd allowing for follow ups on heavy weights, unless it was done in the corner.

 

 

With Xrd's RC system, you'd be better off trying to figure out ways to drop out moves like 5K and j.S if you were going to spend meter.  There's plenty of time to set up the next hit in a way that doesn't require using those moves, which is great since they don't do a lot of damage relative to how much they scale damage.  Sometimes getting c.S > 5H > j.H to work in place of c.S > j.S > j.H in combos adds like 30+ damage to whatever you were doing.

 

 

That's assuming the numbers haven't changed all that much since AC/+R though.

 

 

Goddamn I want this game.  I really wish they'll bring a playable demo of the console version to E3 or something.  I really doubt it'd happen, but I can dream.

[OneSanitarium]

Yeah, it's hard trying to theorize when you know it'd be way easier to just find answers immediately with a playable version at hand.

 

I wonder how much guaranteed stagger time comes from CH H STBT. It's hard to gauge now because of how easy it is to mash, but as long as the combo counter doesn't black beat it should be within the minimum stagger threshold. I wonder if you can do hoverdash j.S after into a better combo?

 

I'm not really used to doing 6P>5H>j.H midscreen, I didn't start learning I-no until just before +R, and even then it was mostly just getting used to her execution. Though I did learn a sizable amount of her combo routes and things.

 

Speaking of CH STBT, I see fairly oftensome I-no's trying to do CH S STBT>hoverdash j.S. Maybe it's possible, just really tight?

[Clousephinat]

Yeah, I really think her new version in Xrd is probably the best one for what we have been able to see so far, and don't forget also, I-No is a character quite influenced with the weight of her opponents, BUT... With the 3D models I'm sure she is able to make hits more easily, for starters, I'm thinking about doing for example j.S without using hover dash, the probably of missing unless the opponent is also in the air are of course high, but now you could probably abuse more of it, while before this type of things made even Justice to be in disadvantage some way or another.

 

A proof of what I'm saying is Ky for example, being difficult to perform j.S>j.K on him, but now, in Xrd I'm pretty sure I have seen this somewhere, and also, you can now even do SP input P>SP input P twice, so why not this? VCL>YRC>SP input P (with charge if is needed)>airdash>j.K>j.S>VCL>5S>j.S>dj.S>j.HS>HCL>DCL and then calling the note.

 

You could probably do even this if you have 100% tension, VCL>YRC>SP input P (with charge if is needed)>airdash>j.K>j.S>VCL>5S>j.S>dj.S>j.HS>HCL>YRC>airdash>landing>Ultimate Fortissimo (maybe you could do before j.D depending of the situation in hand)>5S (maybe 5K before also)>j.S>dj.S>j.HS>SP input P (with charge if is needed, like when you use j.HS after using FB in AC without canceling it and the opponent is above you)>airdash>j.K>j.S>VCL>5P> jump and wait/airdash quickly while the opponent recovers in order to do the special Air Throw>SP input P>airdash>j.HS>VCL and etc.

 

LOL, probably it won't go that easy anyway, but I'm almost sure we can expect something like this.

[Delrian]

Um, 3D Models have nothing to do with how characters' hurtboxes and gravity values affect combos...

[Clousephinat]

Um, 3D Models have nothing to do with how characters' hurtboxes and gravity values affect combos...

 

I don't know about gravity values, but as I said with Ky it was difficult to land a combo with I-No with j.K and the same went against other characters like Eddie/Zato and A.B.A, so yeah, Ky is more vulnerable now than before.

[OneSanitarium]

Could have just homogenized some of the hitboxes. I've not seen 6P>5H drop against Sol really.

[Clousephinat]

Yeah, she's even able to do now 6P>Stroke the Big Tree>2S>5HS

[OneSanitarium]

This was an enjoyable Burst bait.

 

 

 

Also, from the Jonio stream a few days ago. An enjoyable aggressive play to finish a round out from OSCA. Nothing special, just liked it.

[Clousephinat]

Heh, one of the main reasons why is I-No so fun to play, little monsters pretending to be the heroes should just stay in the corner and watch the carnival.

 

I wonder if you can catch the opponent before a Danger Time ocurrs, this considering it takes place in the air of course. Maybe in the corner it's not something entirely impossible to happen.

[OneSanitarium]

Watching Hasegawa on the Jonio stream, and he's been doing a fair amount of S STBT YRC during blockstrings, from moves it wouldn't be a true block string on so it was a YRC, and using the momentum and time stop to put them in a mixup. S STBT YRC>2K is definitely a doable thing. It still puts a mixup between 2K/Throw at the very least.

 

Has also been doing Hoverdash>land>VCL YRC>Airdash for some oki into mixups. Has been fairly effective.

 

 

edit: I think a Faust just Blitz Shielded Note oki so he could throw her land>2K attempt.