[Xrd] I-No Gameplay Discussion

[Ariscool24]

If they had kept the ranges on VCL & HCL with easier inputs she would've had the best neutral game. 

 

Remember, easier inputs means godlike reaction timing. 

 

Though you still have to be smart about HCL YRC in neutral.

 

Unlike the older games I-No can't just throw it out anymore. 

[TheRealBobMan]

I think the range is the same.  You can back out a lot farther than you could before (screen size), but relative to character size, HCL is the same.  I can still hit Sol from like 2/3 screen, which is just past the point where the camera starts to back out with you, and is much further away than 2S hits.

 

 

*Edit*  Looks like you can dash cancel, Dive cancel, or Note cancel Pdive after the 8-9 frame limit, but you can't use HCL/VCL/Fortissimo.

 

*Edit*  Anyone notice that she has an idle pose while crouching?  She'll tune her guitar.  : )

[OneSanitarium]

Random thing, I-no can still 2K under Bandit Bringer. Woop. And if you chicken block a burst, you can instantly do SM without landing, though you'd probably rather just land and do c.S into a non prorated combo.

[Tomo009]

So with all these new different states and stuff, what knockdowns should I be going for?

 

Right now I am just doing HCL > follow up, but it doesn't seem like a very desirable knockdown, should I be ending in K dives or something else?

 

Not really sure what is optimal in Xrd, but I am finding myself pretty much always doing 6P 5HS > IAD jK meterless combos now and using my meter for YRC and FD.

[OneSanitarium]

That's actually pretty optimal. What you get from IAD j.K>j.S>VCL is somewhat character/distance specific midscreen. Sometimes you can get j.S>j.H into Dive knockdown. Other times you can really only get  a HCL~Follow up. But when you get to the corner you can use dives and get more damage.

 

Meter wise, VCL YRC is an incredibly strong tool.

[Pestilence]

Need PS3/PS4 hella bad. Oh 360 how I love thee and your magical collection of cave-tastic games, Y can't u be home to all the fighters too :/

[Rhannmah]

That's actually pretty optimal. What you get from IAD j.K>j.S>VCL is somewhat character/distance specific midscreen. Sometimes you can get j.S>j.H into Dive knockdown. Other times you can really only get  a HCL~Follow up. But when you get to the corner you can use dives and get more damage.

 

Meter wise, VCL YRC is an incredibly strong tool.

 

From what i've played at least, after IAD j.K>j.S>FFVCL midscreen you can always do rejump P > j.S > j.P > j.S > HCL~followup for guaranteed knockdown

 

U-Zen does this a lot, and he follows it up with VCL YRC pressure. Looks really good.

[KJunk]

Anyone played around with her upwards dash yet?  One use may be to force cross-ups a bit easier.  If you do 663, then go neutral for a moment and then hit j.K, you get a nice little hop over a waking or crouching opponent.

 

I notice sometimes I quickly land, and other times it's a nice slow fall.

[Ariscool24]

From what i've played at least, after IAD j.K>j.S>FFVCL midscreen you can always do rejump P > j.S > j.P > j.S > HCL~followup for guaranteed knockdown

 

U-Zen does this a lot, and he follows it up with VCL YRC pressure. Looks really good.

 

Yeah that's the combo everyone should be doing.  

[Tomo009]

From what i've played at least, after IAD j.K>j.S>FFVCL midscreen you can always do rejump P > j.S > j.P > j.S > HCL~followup for guaranteed knockdown

 

U-Zen does this a lot, and he follows it up with VCL YRC pressure. Looks really good.

Is hoverdashing over to them and doing VCL YRC DP safe at all? I'm finding notes significantly less useful in Xrd than I have in the past for some reason so I'm really wanting some way to keep Sol and Ky sitting down....

[Clousephinat]

Still waiting my LE from Amazon and now the wait will be even more hard than ever, but anyway... Anyone has figured out if you can still use HCL to hit the opponent from behind? I remember seeing a I-No player using HCL after a Faust player used the door teleportation and didn't work, though I'm not sure if it was maybe because that special has some invulnerability.

[Dayman]

I keep hitting 2k from too far out to get anything afterwards. 5s gets blocked, 2s chains fine but if they are ducking, HCL goes over their head. I can shoot a note but they can avoid that since it takes a while to come out, and I can STBT sometimes even though it gets blocked, but I'm afraid to do it too often and get DP'd. Can't seem to jump or dash cancel it either.

 

Any advice?

[Keo-bas]

I keep hitting 2k from too far out to get anything afterwards. 5s gets blocked, 2s chains fine but if they are ducking, HCL goes over their head. I can shoot a note but they can avoid that since it takes a while to come out, and I can STBT sometimes even though it gets blocked, but I'm afraid to do it too often and get DP'd. Can't seem to jump or dash cancel it either.

 

Any advice? rng

theirs alot of things to be consider but mostly you'll have to compromise for reset in offense. ue some of the mention stuff to make respect. 2k and stbt to make them respect low attacks. 5s/2d are pretty decent pokes to harass with. while not safe in some cases, notes can deter opponents from mounting  a frontal assault. to come. either way theirs not much combo going for 2k at that range

 

if your opponent is crouch hit stun, you shouldn't event incorporate 2k as 5k just over all better. 2k does allow gimmicky frame trap from 2hs but when to use it is.....meh

[Vosetri]

Still waiting my LE from Amazon and now the wait will be even more hard than ever, but anyway... Anyone has figured out if you can still use HCL to hit the opponent from behind? I remember seeing a I-No player using HCL after a Faust player used the door teleportation and didn't work, though I'm not sure if it was maybe because that special has some invulnerability.

Just tested it, doesn't look like the hitbox extends behind I-No. With both ground HCL and air HCL

And I was trying to figure out some reset stuff with Sterilization Method(214H - Command Grab). I only tested on Millia though. It's guaranteed to work off of any direction of tech(assuming as fast as possible) with

[stuff -> 6P -> 236S -> 6P -> 214H]

After 6P you can end with HCL>VCL follow up for knockdown

I also found that you can reset with 214H after

[6P -> 5H -> sjc IAD -> j.K -> j.S -> FFVCL]

The reset works midscreen on forward tech, in the corner 214H will work on both back and forward tech, and to get 214H to work in the corner on neutral tech you'll have to TK it.

[TheRealBobMan]

Ugh, that HCL hitbox nerf sucks.  I finally played with my friend last night and man, I-No's neutral game is going to take some getting used to.  Everything feels nerfed in that respect.

 

f.S sucks ass now so you don't have a burst-safe combo tool and poking tool.  You're still boned when this comes out by accident when you want c.S for a combo, but now it has no utility in neutral.

 

Hitboxes on 2H and 5H don't seem as big horizontally (can combo 6P > 5H on Sol at much greater range though!) and they don't lead to anything on CH.  At some ranges you can sweep, though sometimes the recoil animation makes them duck HCL which doesn't have the improved +R hitbox.  You can STBT-H but that only gives you corner push and knockdown unless you RC (and take a damage hit).  You can combo to 5D but only at close range because you'll be pushed back while the move is going active (gets you corner push at mid screen or slightly more damage in the corner).  I also think the hitbox on 2D is shorter horizontally since I kept whiffing when going for simple knockdowns where HCL wouldn't work (they'd recoil under the beam).

 

Air CH 6H only gives you HCL ~ D and that's only if they're at the right height when you CH.  Otherwise it's blowback and you get nothing... best bet there is probably note.  That's really fucking weird given how risky it is to use in neutral.

 

STBT-S gets shaken out of so you get nothing, though you might be able to link 5K for HCL ~ D on CH.  CH barely helps this move, and the reward is pretty weak given the risk.

 

Dives only give knockdown unless you hit them high up, which doesn't happen often since you're usually jumping over something and punishing their whiff, and RC the hit.  Given the proration and addition RC proration, you'll do shit damage.

 

HCL/VCL can't be used as ghetto "reversals" against low hitboxes since they're frame-2 airborne now.

 

 

 

Also, I think inputs get eaten during YRC screen freeze, which is really frustrating.  I dropped all kinds of stuff during neutral, including my own YRCs, because my friend was YRCing something at the same time and did his first.  I'm also having trouble adjusting to I-No's hoverdash in this one.  In AC/+R you could immediately j.H to land, but in this you have to wait a few frames and do it to keep the hitbox from actually connecting, and this also means it's much more unsafe to dash (as if it wasn't before).  I got hit pretty much every time I dashed forward from ranges that used to be safe unless he was blocking a note (and even then I still got VV'd through the note because I couldn't land in time).

 

 

On the Sol matchup side, VV's hitbox isn't as good anymore.  If you stand far enough away that he wont hit your legs, you can 6P through it.  I think I also beat the second hit with j.K at one point instead of clashing it like AC/+R, which is kinda silly.  I have no idea how to deal with Sol when he gains initiative anymore besides "IB to get meter and then spend it on FD to make him whiff, or IB then 2K when he runs in for WT", which doesn't work for very long.  For example, if he went for Gunflame with his pressure before and didn't FRC, you could dive him for free into damage, and if he did get the FRC you still had an opportunity to escape, but now with YRC time slow you're forced to sit there.  His 6H is actually something to worry about now.  That shit has gigantic range and leads to 60% combos.  Also, watch for the ground hitbox on Kudakero - it's deceptively large, even if the move itself isn't that great.  You'll make the dive part whiff, but then be put into blockstun and he'll be safe anyway because of that extra hitbox being much bigger than it looks.

 

I guess I over relied on SB for situations where people keep doing the same frametrap or blockstring+mixup, because now I'm not sure how to deal with the situations where I-No's hitboxes can't do the job (which happens often because that's her weakness).  At least before when you were at neutral you could safely use f.S if it was spaced right, and you could scare them with 5H if they try to go under f.S or HCL because it lead to STBT-H on CH and corner pushed for 45%.  Now the reward for 5H/2H is jack shit, so it's in their interest to challenge it because if they win the poke exchange they get bigger damage, and f.S doesn't help in neutral to scare them into getting hit by 5H/2H anyway.  6P is significantly better now that it's above knees invul from the start, but it's still really easy to poke under it, and it's still really easy to whiff punish it.

[Pestilence]

I play I-No on pad. I certainly wouldn't consider her "Pad" friendly by any means though... I've seen people play her on keyboard so it's all personal preference. 

[G0d3L]

Hi guys, I'm a Virtua Fighter player and long time lurker here o DL.

 

Been at (hard) work learning I-No from a little bit before +R came out on console.

 

 

Messing around in training I found out a couple of things:

 

- negative edge is gone

 

- you can HD cancel out of every normal but 6H (in the wiki it's written everything but f.S, 6H and 6P). When she HD cancel out of a normal I-No says something

 

- jump cancel window is now bigger and starts earlier (later on this in the replay to TheRealBobMan)

 

- j.K seems to have less static difference/hitstun. Now to make connect 2K after it you need to be lower to the ground (connecting on the way down of a very short HD or hitting mid height but quite in front of your opponent)

 

 

About STBT now it sucks compared to +R especially the S one.

Beside from CH STBT H combos I was looking on what was guaranteed of a CH STBT S one.

So I set the dummy to fastest possible stagger recovery and found out (tested on Sol):

 

- point blank CH STBT S (midscreen and more) > 6P > H > j.S > dj.S > dj.H > S dive > wall stick > stuff (if you are too close to the wall after the wall stick the positions will be inverted but still comboable) or the usual IAD route after the 5H (didn't test it though)

 

- almost max range CH STBT S > 2S > HCL

 

- at max range (just a little step further then the 2S one) we got nothing guaranteed

 

 

Also, you can dash out of HCL/VCL YRC/RC, but you can't jump after them...  it doesn't work like the JI we're used to.  I also can't seem to JI out of a single jump cancelable normal... I experimented with options out of 6P > c.S > JI'd sj.S > sj.H > VCL > j.D > dj.H > VCL in +R (being flashy vs May in the corner), but I can't get a double jump out of a super jump from 6P > c.S.  You can still do stuff like c.S > JI > 6P > c.S > sj.S > dj.S though.

 

First of all they enlarged a lot the window for the jump cancel, infact now you can do it way before it was possible in +R (I noticed this during S dive wall combo relaunch with c.S > JC).

 

This thing has messed our timings but it's stil possible to JI after a single jump cancable normal (works with every jc normal) and get sj > dj.

 

About the 6P > c.S > JI > sj > dj it's possible but the window seems smaller (???) and even earlier (???)

 

If you do instead 6P > 5H > JI > sj > dj it's really easy

 

Anyone played around with her upwards dash yet?  One use may be to force cross-ups a bit easier.  If you do 663, then go neutral for a moment and then hit j.K, you get a nice little hop over a waking or crouching opponent.

 

I notice sometimes I quickly land, and other times it's a nice slow fall.

 

Having lost the second AD/a jump out of a AD (for me a huge loss) was thinking to experiment with that to replace some oki I used in +R.

Please let me know if you find something useful.

 

Anyone has figured out if you can still use HCL to hit the opponent from behind? I remember seeing a I-No player using HCL after a Faust player used the door teleportation and didn't work, though I'm not sure if it was maybe because that special has some invulnerability.

 

As already pointed out by others it does't hit behind anymore (was one of the first thing a checked being a part of some oki I used in +R)

[Yukikaze]

After doing around 300 challenges, I surprisingly found I-no really fun. Alot of general questions but I know atleast TheRealBlobMan loves to educate us.

 

Could someone transcribe these, (if they are in the challenge mode just give me the number)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNabIUcd6jI. 

Also how difficult are they, in the grand scheme? If they are pro level difficult, whats some easier high damage? 

 

Whats FFchemical love? 

 

Anything about H Sultry Performance, (Love that move seems like Bisons phycho crusher) and sterilization method is that any good, frame data say startup is 18, seems to slow.

[Vosetri]

Whats FFchemical love?

FF means Fast Fall, when I-No does VCL quickly enough after an airdash she will fall to the ground right away, instead of floating a bit like she normally does.

[fabifab]

Hello guys,
Im really having a hard time doing the 6P 5HS IAD jK jS VCL combo.
Is there a trick input to do instead of 96 for the IAD ?
For what i know jK has to be really fast...
sorry if this topic was discussed before, i just read last page.
Thanks

[Elemenope]

Could someone transcribe these, (if they are in the challenge mode just give me the number)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNabIUcd6jI. 

Also how difficult are they, in the grand scheme? If they are pro level difficult, whats some easier high damage? 

 

Crossup VCL>YRC>P-Dive>5H>iad>j.K>j.S>VCL>HCL~VCL

Throw>RC>hoverdash>iad>P-dive>5H>iad>j.K>j.S>VCL>j.S>j.H>P-dive>airdash>j.H>P-dive

5D~6>hoverdash>j.D>P-Dive>c.S>VCL>c.S>j.S>j.H>P-dive>airdash>j.H>P-dive

2K>6P>5H>j.H>S-Dive~~~~~~~crossover j.S>6P>f.S>HCL>RC>airdash under>charge P-Dive>5H>j.K>j.S>VCL>j.S>j.H>P-Dive>airdash>j.H>P-Dive

2K>6P>5H>j.H>P-Dive>airdash>j.S>j.H>P-Dive>5H>j.H>P-Dive>airdash>j.H>P-Dive

2K>6P>5H>j.H>P-Dive>5H>iad>j.K>j.S>VCL>j.S>j.H>P-Dive>airdash>j.H>P-Dive

VCL>YRC>P-Dive>5H>j.H>P-Dive>airdash>j.S>j.H>P-Dive>5H>j.H>P-Dive>airdash>j.H>P-Dive

 

I think these are correct off a cursory glance.

[Yukikaze]

Thanks man

[Vosetri]

Hello guys,

Im really having a hard time doing the 6P 5HS IAD jK jK VCL combo.

Is there a trick input to do instead of 96 for the IAD ?

For what i know jK has to be really fast...

sorry if this topic was discussed before, i just read last page.

Thanks

Do a super jump instead of a normal jump. And you want to j.K > j.S but I'm sure that was just a typo

[Tomo009]

After doing around 300 challenges, I surprisingly found I-no really fun. Alot of general questions but I know atleast TheRealBlobMan loves to educate us.

 

Could someone transcribe these, (if they are in the challenge mode just give me the number)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNabIUcd6jI. 

Also how difficult are they, in the grand scheme? If they are pro level difficult, whats some easier high damage? 

 

Whats FFchemical love? 

 

Anything about H Sultry Performance, (Love that move seems like Bisons phycho crusher) and sterilization method is that any good, frame data say startup is 18, seems to slow.

I'm not the greatest I-No ever by any stretch, but to me those combos all look REALLY character specific.

 

There are combos TheRealBobMan has posted in the combo thread that are much more universal, though no matter what you will probably need at least 2 corner combos or you are going to be doing something very suboptimal.

 

That VCL YRC combo on Slayer gave me an idea to try something though.

 

 

I'm not sure what uses H dive has in this game, it is worse? than in AC where its only real use was character specific combos, so probably not really gonna be used much if ever.

 

Sterilization Method is great, if people keep up-backing or jumping forward out of your ground blockstrings when you go for note or stroke the big tree, SM is the answer. It leads into good corner carry too and high damage in the corner. You can also reset into it, which is a powerful option in the corner specifically as you can cover multiple tech options.

[TheRealBobMan]

Hdive can sometimes work at long range when the other player is going to commit to something that leaves them open and doesn't cover the space in front of them.  However, HCL has almost the same range and you can get knockdown from that, so the main difference is knockdown vs potentially getting a combo if TK Hdive is spaced perfectly enough that you can catch with 5P.  Some characters can run under HCL but will get tagged by Hdive if they're not watching for it.  It's pretty risky to use in neutral, but it has its moments.

 

As far as combos, the damage sucks.  20x3 hits.  You can do significantly more damage with just about anything else, though the benefit is that our dives give pretty good meter relative to other moves, and Hdive hits 3 times.  If you loop that 2-3 times in a combo you can build pretty good meter, and if you're doing a prorated combo anyway (off of stuff like f.S or 2K > 6P in +R) it had moments where it was worth it to get meter to spend after oki.