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[Xrd] I-No Gameplay Discussion

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Ok, I finally watched it.  That was pretty good.  Thanks for the hard work!  I think new players would really appreciate that.  I'm going to watch Diarmuid's tutorial video next.  The nice thing about having a variety of tutorial videos is that you can appeal to players of differing prior knowledge and attention span.  Your video was short and clean.  It's kind of like Guilty Bits, but with less info and more emphasis on video demonstration.  Where Guilty Bits makes several points and gives an example for each, you have some repetition to further illustrate the smaller points you're making, like about how far away note will get extra hits.  Diarmuid's tutorial is almost 2 hours, so while that might scare a newer player, your video and the prior (and I'm assuming upcoming) Guilty Bits are more welcoming.

 

 

 

Man, I wish I had some video capture equipment.  How does Xrd's functionality to upload replays work?  Would I have to upload to youtube just to rip the files and edit them, or could I put it on a flash drive to edit with my PC?  Also, is it possible to record footage in training mode, or only in vs mode and online?

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Hey all. I'm primarily a Chipp player, but I'm picking up I-No as a secondary.

Now, question about her note oki. After messing around in training mode for a while with different characters, I notice that a simple gatling (2K-5S-2D) into a sweep - note seems to whiff on Faust's wakeup, no matter how I aim it.

I searched the thread for specific notes on note oki, but couldn't find anything on this. Are there any alternatives to the simple sweep setup? Also, is it just Faust or are there other characters this whiffs on?

Thanks.

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How does Xrd's functionality to upload replays work?

Does it even work?

Ok, I finally watched it.  That was pretty good.  Thanks for the hard work!  I think new players would really appreciate that.  I'm going to watch Diarmuid's tutorial video next.  The nice thing about having a variety of tutorial videos is that you can appeal to players of differing prior knowledge and attention span.  Your video was short and clean.  It's kind of like Guilty Bits, but with less info and more emphasis on video demonstration.  Where Guilty Bits makes several points and gives an example for each, you have some repetition to further illustrate the smaller points you're making, like about how far away note will get extra hits.  Diarmuid's tutorial is almost 2 hours, so while that might scare a newer player, your video and the prior (and I'm assuming upcoming) Guilty Bits are more welcoming.

 

 

 

Man, I wish I had some video capture equipment.  How does Xrd's functionality to upload replays work?  Would I have to upload to youtube just to rip the files and edit them, or could I put it on a flash drive to edit with my PC?  Also, is it possible to record footage in training mode, or only in vs mode and online?

I watched the whole thing. It's got a ton of good information and I felt like I learned a lot. With a bit of editing one can get rid of some points of dead noise and remove background noise and shave off some time.

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Just a forewarning to all: There's currently a bug where if you unlock I-no's system voice pack DLC, it unlocks Faust instead.

 

That is horrifying. 

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whats up guys its nice to be back with GG and Ino.  the old players can give more info than the newer players, but as an old player of GG series, does it feel like ino is different? other than certain buttons not being the same in AC, i still have the AC mentality and  combo ideas to try. i guess i need to look up xrd ino. amazing how muscle memory just keeps on keeping on 

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It feels like she's easier at a basic level, but still hard at intermediate through high level.  Don't need HCL 6FRC6 to live at mid screen or do big damage anymore.  Just about everyone lost midscreen options.  I-No lost mid-screen starter potential.  STBT sucks without a counter hit, S version will let you get knockdown if you CH, and H version will give you a sort combo on CH for some corner push (you'll get damage in the corner).  Kdive doesn't floor slide on CH, Sdive doesn't float on hit, and even if you RC them on hit (if, say, you TK for the overhead), you'll knock down and not get a combo.

 

That said, for mid screen knockdown options we have that new "Derivative" follow up to HCL, and Sdive knocks down (dives give better oki;  HCL ~ D knockdown is good if you have meter).  So, there are a lot more situations at mid screen where we can knock down than before, though we can't really get much damage + corner push without spending 50% for RC.  Except that while we get better corner push, attacking someone during the time slow for RC/YRC introduces an 80% prorate to your combo.  You can avoid it with well timed YRC and follow up attacks, but if you use RC you're sacrificing damage in most cases (unless you didn't have any other confirm).  Besides that, the 6P > 5H > IAD j.K > string still works and is the general go-to for damage and corner push.

 

 

So overall, midscreen damage is reduced, ability to knock down is increased.  Corner damage is really high given the increase to everyone's guts.

 

The YRC mechanic is really pleasant for I-No.  VCL YRC is amazing for oki since, if you time it right, few characters can backdash VCL's active frames.  If they try to Blitz Shield, it's a projectile, so you can just hit them high/low to punish.  If they try to DP you can react to the startup during the YRC screen freeze and punish.  STBT is great with YRC since you can go into a mixup.  Generally speaking, if you YRC right before STBT hits, they have few options.  6H to throw or hit a jump out while they're slowed, you can reaction throw a jump out attempt, dash to overhead to punish a low block, or 2K to mess with them if they anticipate an overhead.

 

We traded the H Note for an air command throw, but if you use note in the air it moves faster than when used on the ground which kinda helps to compensate for that.  The air command throw is nice since we can combo off of it meterlessly at mid screen for extra damage into knockdown, but we get better damage in the corner.

 

Her dash startup feels different.  I think they increased the startup by one frame, and she floats a bit more so dash to immediate j.H will actually cause j.H to hit (it takes THAT long to land, instead of using j.H to land early for 2K mixup).  After that, she doesn't get huge rewards off of risky mid screen play (6H blows people away instead of leading to meterless 50%, and there's the aforementioned changes to STBT and dive).  But she's super dangerous in the corner and can do 200-300 damage off of HCL YRC from 2/3 screen away without spending additional meter.  Air super still hits like a truck and makes people cry.

 

 

I don't think it'll take you that long to adapt.  You need to get used to the system changes a little more than the character changes.  I-No still has plenty of character specific stuff from what I'm seeing, so you'll have to work on that too.  Once you feel comfortable though, she feels really good.  If it doesn't work out for you and you don't like her, Elphelt reminds me a little bit of old I-No.  Her 2H is kinda like STBT in that it goes under things and sets up combos, her 5H is kinda like old f.S in the arc it covers, her grenade gives her similar coverage to note, she has a dive move, she has a grounded overhead and a standing low so her mixup is decent, and she wrecks in the corner with her shotgun stance that has a command throw.  I kinda want to learn to play her after I commit a bunch of time to learning Xrd I-No.

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Hmm good read over the changes. Yeah it's weird not have frcs. I'm going to have to learn the system changes and get use to using a stick. I'll have to watch some videos. Who is the koichi of xrd for ino yall would say

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Ok, I finally watched it.  That was pretty good.  Thanks for the hard work!  I think new players would really appreciate that.  I'm going to watch Diarmuid's tutorial video next.  The nice thing about having a variety of tutorial videos is that you can appeal to players of differing prior knowledge and attention span.  Your video was short and clean.  It's kind of like Guilty Bits, but with less info and more emphasis on video demonstration.  Where Guilty Bits makes several points and gives an example for each, you have some repetition to further illustrate the smaller points you're making, like about how far away note will get extra hits.  Diarmuid's tutorial is almost 2 hours, so while that might scare a newer player, your video and the prior (and I'm assuming upcoming) Guilty Bits are more welcoming.

 

\

 Wow thank you for the feedback! I wanted to keep it pretty basic and straight forward like you said. I could've delved into some deeper things with her and I even thought of some things I meant to include but somehow got left out (her reversals etc) but I'm overall pleased with how my first vid came out. I agree, for more extensive guides it's nice to also have those available too. 

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Hmm good read over the changes. Yeah it's weird not have frcs. I'm going to have to learn the system changes and get use to using a stick. I'll have to watch some videos. Who is the koichi of xrd for ino yall would say

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Koichi doesn't play with I-No anymore, and from what I've seen he's now trying to play with Elp-chan like he did with Bedman and Ram-chan. Anyway though, there's some other players that still play with her, try to at least see some footage of U-Zen, Hasegawa and OSCA in that order of priority, also 2Rio has some good matches from the last ones I saw of him at the very least.

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I'm still upset I can't find a consistent way to do Ground throw > Hoverdash~Cross under airdash VCL. I think the secret is falling slightly after the hoverdash before doing the airdash, but obviously staying at minimum airdash height.

 

If you get it to work, you should be able to straight into a high damage corner combo.

 

I got a recording of I-no doing Hoverdash ~ Crossunder air dash and it works on everyone with the same timing. Don't have Leo, but I assume he's not different.

 

In theory, the combo would be [Ground throw > Hoverdash~Cross under airdash VCL > 5H > IAD j.K > j.S > VCL > VCL > c.S > sj.S >Dive loops] or something to that extent.

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Whoops, Throw RC. Throw RC>Hover dash>airdash crosses under so you switch sides>VCL>combo.

 

I got it to work on I-no, but I mucked up the combo since I didn't expect to hit it. Definitely works.

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About the Burst OS thing, right? All right, short right up on button priority.

 

Input priority in Guilty Gear is D > P > K >S > H. If you had no burst and no meter, and couldn't IK activate, hitting all 5 buttons would just give you a 5D because it's the highest on the input chain. This is the cause of throw OS's as well, since throws have priority beyond that.

 

The reason why this is important for the Burst OS, is so you know what buttons to input for a string to continue. I'll use 2K>6P>5H as the example. Starting at 25-49% tension, assuming the 2K doesn't send you to 50%, once 2K connects you can't get a normal RC because you don't have then tension, and you can't get a YRC because they're in a form of stun. Once they burst, they are technically at neutral, or at least the RC system says it is, so if you input moves beyond 2K that also read as a YRC input.

 

From 2K, what are your gatling options? 6P/5S/2S/2H/2D. You want 6P though, most likely. What's good about it is P being really high on the priority list. 2K>6P+any two buttons really will give you a YRC at the burst. 6PKH will give you 6P. 6PSH will give you 6P.

 

6P to 5H is where priority becomes much more important. 6P gatlings to both c.S and 5H. Can't do xSH for the input, because you'll get c.S from it. 6P doesn't gatling to any K normal or any P normal, so pressing 5PKH will give you the 5H you want. PKH also works as the input to get 6P in the same situation, so may as well use that for both to you don't need to change your hand! 2K > 6PKH > 5PKH > Chemical Love! It even works for the CL input as well, though 214KS would give you the HCL anyway, no need to change buttons!

 

Also works for something like 2K>2S>2H>2D or what have you. 2K > 2KSH > 2KSH > 2KSHD.

 

edit: Sorry, I wrote a lot. Probably a bit of superfluous information too.

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So I noticed some things with FFVCL just now:

 

1.  You can FFVCL with air backdash.  This might lead to silly combos with HCL/VCL YRC, or gimmicks at neutral or for pressure.

 

2.  I-No's falling speed changes depending on when you VCL during an airdash.  I think prior to Xrd it was just that if you VCL during airdash frames, you fast fall.  I'm noticing that if I 66956 > immediate VCL, I can't catch Venom, but if I delay the VCL I can catch with c.S for a combo.  It looks like this window for the "extra fast fastfall" runs through the last airdash frame, since I get it when doing airdash > j.K > j.S > FFVCL, but I don't know how wide it is.  This may be important for further combo optimization (explains why I couldn't get better follow ups when trying to omit the linker between Pdive and FFVCL), and will be important if you choose to use FFVCL oki for frame advantage when you don't feel like spending meter.

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About that cross under combo... is really necessary? Instead of grabbing out of the corner why not grab into the corner then RC? Unless it give you an optimal set up or more damage I don't see the reason to do it other than swag.

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No reason outside of throwing them out of the corner and wanting them back in. And even then it seems really hard to do, spent three hours just trying to get it off fully. If I could find a way to make it practical it'd be totally cool, but until then it's just combo video material. If you throw them out, she pretty much goes most of the screen anyway with an easier combo.

 

And if you were gonna do combo video you'd do some weird shit like cross under UF into bullshit!

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That's a very good reason though - if you're backed into the corner and want your throw OS to be 6H instead of 5H.  If you want to throw them back into the corner you have to use 4H, and since any button input will give you FD, you're stuck with 5H which is easy to punish by jumping.  6H has that hitbox in front of I-No on frame 5 and that swing that catches jump outs, so it's usually a better option if your throw attempt whiffs.

 

There's another method that might be slightly easier, but it's still super hard.  You'll dash out of the RC then intentionally whiff Sdive in their face.  With proper timing you'll slide under them and be able to catch with c.S.  I'd much rather learn a FFVCL setup though since it's better damage.

 

 

If you want to start on some fancy stuff now, experiment with VCL YRC > cross over Fortissimo > full corner combo.  Did you just try to low I-No and not make it meaty?  Say goodbye to 2/3 of your health.  I can see why they nerfed VCL so that it's airborne on frame 2.

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Ground Throw RC > 2 instant hoverdashes can cross up. You have to do both of them ASAP, which helps with the dash buffer RC's give, and let them recover instantly.

 

You can get c.S>5H on Sol, I-no, and Potemkin at least. Haven't tried it on anyone else yet, but you can't get IAD j.K j.S off of it on anyone that isn't Potemkin. They're just too high up.

 

I got a pretty stupid combo on Potemkin that left hit knocked down from P dive that went full screen and had reverse hitting 5H and some weird stuff. Still working this out, if anything can come from it.

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About the Burst OS thing, right? All right, short right up on button priority.

 

Input priority in Guilty Gear is D > P > K >S > H. If you had no burst and no meter, and couldn't IK activate, hitting all 5 buttons would just give you a 5D because it's the highest on the input chain. This is the cause of throw OS's as well, since throws have priority beyond that.

 

The reason why this is important for the Burst OS, is so you know what buttons to input for a string to continue. I'll use 2K>6P>5H as the example. Starting at 25-49% tension, assuming the 2K doesn't send you to 50%, once 2K connects you can't get a normal RC because you don't have then tension, and you can't get a YRC because they're in a form of stun. Once they burst, they are technically at neutral, or at least the RC system says it is, so if you input moves beyond 2K that also read as a YRC input.

 

From 2K, what are your gatling options? 6P/5S/2S/2H/2D. You want 6P though, most likely. What's good about it is P being really high on the priority list. 2K>6P+any two buttons really will give you a YRC at the burst. 6PKH will give you 6P. 6PSH will give you 6P.

 

6P to 5H is where priority becomes much more important. 6P gatlings to both c.S and 5H. Can't do xSH for the input, because you'll get c.S from it. 6P doesn't gatling to any K normal or any P normal, so pressing 5PKH will give you the 5H you want. PKH also works as the input to get 6P in the same situation, so may as well use that for both to you don't need to change your hand! 2K > 6PKH > 5PKH > Chemical Love! It even works for the CL input as well, though 214KS would give you the HCL anyway, no need to change buttons!

 

Also works for something like 2K>2S>2H>2D or what have you. 2K > 2KSH > 2KSH > 2KSHD.

 

edit: Sorry, I wrote a lot. Probably a bit of superfluous information too.

So you use this when you're anticipating the opponent to burst in a blockstring, right? You use button priority to make sure you get a YRC instead of a gatling, and if they don't burst the chain keeps going?

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