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[Xrd] I-No Gameplay Discussion

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How do you guys feel about her P dive combo enders when there's so much hitstun deterioration that it doesn't cause a knockdown?

 

Usually they tech pretty low to the ground, so I had an idea of if meaty HCL for these instances would work well. 

Mainly this would be for people who are looking for forward tech and tag them.

But it would be an option to keep people locked down if the air tech is in the line of fire.

 

Haven't tested this yet, but I think it's worth exploring.

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How do you guys feel about her P dive combo enders when there's so much hitstun deterioration that it doesn't cause a knockdown?

 

Usually they tech pretty low to the ground, so I had an idea of if meaty HCL for these instances would work well. 

Mainly this would be for people who are looking for forward tech and tag them.

But it would be an option to keep people locked down if the air tech is in the line of fire.

 

Haven't tested this yet, but I think it's worth exploring.

 

I like this, I haven't tried it yet either I usually just end in a K dive instead if I think they would be able to tech out (usually against the super bouncy characters, looking at you May, Millia, Elph, Ram) I'll let you know how it goes when I get some sets in against my friend

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Yeah, in cases where you know a Pdive knockdown wont work or is too hard/risky to pull off, just Kdive for the knockdown.  You could try for a HCL YRC reset in that circumstance occasionally just to try to cheese out a win, but odds are you'll let them escape.

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So I've been messing with the P dive ender and it seems you can choose if you want to get the hard knock down or go for this Meaty HCL reset/Hoverdash Throw reset.

 

If you do combo > Pdive > airdash > delayed j.H > Pdive

then you can get the hard knockdown since they're closer to the ground without having to use the K dive ender (where you don't get the choice between note oki or FFVCL oki)

 

Is there any situation where K dive is the more optimal situation over P dive > Note oki?

 

If you do the airdash j.H > Pdive as high you can allow the Pdive to hit, then it will do the low air tech.

 

for the meaty HCL, it has to be delayed because of the invul frames the opponents get for air teching. Also the delay masks that you're trying to meaty them from that far away as well. An early HCL > YRC is a huge tell and they'll start blocking if they decide to forward tech.

 

Also this reset is GREAT for doing hoverdash > airthrow resets (works for back and forward tech really well, neutral tech seems to be the toughest to get though)

 

Unfortunately It doesn't seem like SM will work in any situation for this. Unless someone can find something

But I'm testing this all on Elphelt so far. It may be a different case for different characters. Let me know what you guys find.

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I put a video of a reset into stbt yrc and HCL oki after a low s dive on big bodies (staring at you pot and bedman) it's in the combo thread if you guys care there's also a throw reset if your interested

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So I've been messing with the P dive ender and it seems you can choose if you want to get the hard knock down or go for this Meaty HCL reset/Hoverdash Throw reset.

 

If you do combo > Pdive > airdash > delayed j.H > Pdive

then you can get the hard knockdown since they're closer to the ground without having to use the K dive ender (where you don't get the choice between note oki or FFVCL oki)

 

Is there any situation where K dive is the more optimal situation over P dive > Note oki?

 

If you do the airdash j.H > Pdive as high you can allow the Pdive to hit, then it will do the low air tech.

 

for the meaty HCL, it has to be delayed because of the invul frames the opponents get for air teching. Also the delay masks that you're trying to meaty them from that far away as well. An early HCL > YRC is a huge tell and they'll start blocking if they decide to forward tech.

 

Also this reset is GREAT for doing hoverdash > airthrow resets (works for back and forward tech really well, neutral tech seems to be the toughest to get though)

 

Unfortunately It doesn't seem like SM will work in any situation for this. Unless someone can find something

But I'm testing this all on Elphelt so far. It may be a different case for different characters. Let me know what you guys find.

 

I use the K dive when the combo is also too high up. Like if you have to do a SJ j.S instead you can't end on a P dive since they will air tech out so its better to just get your double P dive loop when you can't see the ground, and then end it with a K dive for knockdown and to keep corner pressure.

 

 

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So I let the Japanese I-no players know about j.D FDC tech with BURST stocked. Who is the original person who discovered this so I can give credit?

https://twitter.com/mynusdono/status/555753712824909825

https://twitter.com/mynusdono/status/555753875731677184

https://twitter.com/mynusdono/status/555753957541568512

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I don't know if he discovered it, but the first person to post about it in this thread and bring it to our attention was Coma.

 

 

Also, I've been practicing both the older version of the technique and the new one.  I can use the old version with a Burst somewhat consistently.  Not enough that I'd do it in tournament, but it could work in a pinch if I didn't have the means to hide the button presses.  As for the new method, I'm really getting it down.  Off of a basic dash in j.K > j.S or solo j.S, I'm like 90% able to successfully go into another j.S immediately or go into j.K fast enough that it would combo if I didn't confirm the j.S.  Now I'm working on it out of j.D and STBT YRC.  j.D FDC is also more useful than you'd think when backed into a corner or at round start in some matchups.  If they have a low poke that they like to use often because it stuffs a lot of things and we can't low profile it with STBT, j.D FDC over it for a full punish.  If you open a round with j.D FDC (have to jump forward to get meter) > low airdash j.S > j.H, you'll actually land in time to block their burst if they panic burst the j.S.  If you commit to blocking when in the corner to the point where they take a risk and leave a gap, instead of jumping out and trying to escape, j.D FDC in their face into a whiff punish.

 

j.D FDC is making me realize that I really dislike Millia, Zato, Venom, and other I-No players.  These characters are skinny, so jumping into j.D FDC > j.S > 6P from j.S/j.D/c.S/5K tends to drop at the 6P because you can't reach.  Gotta go for lower damage and corner push (5K/2S > HCL for knockdown), or spend meter on RC stuff (expensive just to prorate your damage), or confirm into Fortissimo.

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j.D FDC is also more useful than you'd think when backed into a corner or at round start in some matchups.  If they have a low poke that they like to use often because it stuffs a lot of things and we can't low profile it with STBT, j.D FDC over it for a full punish.  If you open a round with j.D FDC (have to jump forward to get meter) > low airdash j.S > j.H, you'll actually land in time to block their burst if they panic burst the j.S.  If you commit to blocking when in the corner to the point where they take a risk and leave a gap, instead of jumping out and trying to escape, j.D FDC in their face into a whiff punish.

These things have always been my favourite use of j.D FDC'ing, even back when there was landing recovery.  Against players who'd try to reaction rising air-to-air me when when I'd jump in the corner, it would often result in a safe side-swap, and was a godsend in some matchups.  Now that it's safer in Xrd, it almost feels dirty the way it interacts with some moves.

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So i've literally went across the stupidest thing in existence which was chroming rose into bad moon spam which stupidly enough is fucking safe, any ideas on how to get out of this bullshit? and chroming rose counts as a projectile also x_x 

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Chroming Rose is lvl 1.  If they leave a big enough gap, jump into it and IB it.  That cuts the blockstun to 4 frames.  You could probably Fortissimo to catch them in that case, or try to airthrow.  You can maybe IB > BS against whatever mixup tool they use to put her into rejected state...  I think if Millia uses Badmoon, the rose will be far enough away that it wont hit you unless you move forward slightly.  I'd have to double check that in training mode... it's been a while since I last played this matchup.

 

 

Chroming Rose is kind of insane.  Since it's a super it doesn't prorate her meter gain, so if Millia gets 50% to spend on that when she has you in the corner, she's really going to lock you down.  The thing is, I think she only leaves roses when:

 

Dashing

Using Badmoon

Using Haircar

Rolling

Using Turbofall

 

If she uses her other mixup/mobility tools, she wont cover herself with roses.  That's a weak point you have to exploit.

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From what i've seen against that milia, they used turbo fall a lot and bad moon a lot and it made it really hard to try to get at her while she was throwing her hair pin but god damn that match was not fun at all

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From what i've seen against that milia, they used turbo fall a lot and bad moon a lot and it made it really hard to try to get at her while she was throwing her hair pin but god damn that match was not fun at all

It gets fun once you put her knocked down in the corner, then it's "time to guess asshole". At least that's what I mutter to myself when I'm in that position haha.

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It gets fun once you put her knocked down in the corner, then it's "time to guess asshole". At least that's what I mutter to myself when I'm in that position haha.

 

The problem is getting her to make a mistake to do so.  Her mobility and pin allow her to abuse the holes in I-No's neutral game better than even Chipp.  It really comes down to who can get the corner oki first, but it's long hair>nice rack in this matchup for sure.

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The problem is getting her to make a mistake to do so. Her mobility and pin allow her to abuse the holes in I-No's neutral game better than even Chipp. It really comes down to who can get the corner oki first, but it's long hair>nice rack in this matchup for sure.

The matchup is purely 5-5, don't account personal experience or bias into it. Not difficult nor a struggle at all. Solid neutral and spacing will give you the opportunity you need to pin her down.

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The matchup is purely 5-5, don't account personal experience or bias into it. Not difficult nor a struggle at all. Solid neutral and spacing will give you the opportunity you need to pin her down.

 

I'm not trying to be bias.  I'm just putting it out there that her options are slightly better than ours.  TBH I haven't played any good Millias yet, so you would know better than me in that respect.  Purely from a tools perspective though, I'd give it 5.5 to her IMO.

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I'm not trying to be bias. I'm just putting it out there that her options are slightly better than ours. TBH I haven't played any good Millias yet, so you would know better than me in that respect. Purely from a tools perspective though, I'd give it 5.5 to her IMO.

Tools no. Normals yes. Millia has superior normals, Ino has superior mixup. Hair pin is great, so is Note (which forces movement and gives you control of the neutral game), STBT & VCL in this matchup.

In Xrd, this translates to the Ino player playing harder in neutral then going HAM once they get a knockdown.

By "bias", I mean your 'feeling' that it is a hard matchup for Ino. Which it is not.

Thing with matchup discussions is that there is a lot of speculation when ppl who have been playing the longest (Jp players) could simply be asked how they feel via Twitter. Ppl will translate for you I'm sure. We haven't seen an official matchup chart yet, but once we do the floodgates will open.

But so far, from my experience playing the shitload of high level Millia in the northeast, and from talking to Jp players including Satou and playing him at NEC, the consensus is that this match is as 5-5 as it gets, and the gameplan hasn't really changed since +R.

There are plenty of JP matches between the 2 characters, including mine, so you can def see how the matches swing pretty evenly.

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Tools no. Normals yes. Millia has superior normals, Ino has superior mixup. Hair pin is great, so is Note (which forces movement and gives you control of the neutral game), STBT & VCL in this matchup.

In Xrd, this translates to the Ino player playing harder in neutral then going HAM once they get a knockdown.

By "bias", I mean your 'feeling' that it is a hard matchup for Ino. Which it is not.

Thing with matchup discussions is that there is a lot of speculation when ppl who have been playing the longest (Jp players) could simply be asked how they feel via Twitter. Ppl will translate for you I'm sure. We haven't seen an official matchup chart yet, but once we do the floodgates will open.

But so far, from my experience playing the shitload of high level Millia in the northeast, and from talking to Jp players including Satou and playing him at NEC, this match is as 5-5 as it gets, and the gameplan hasn't really changed since +R.

There are plenty of JP matches between the 2 characters, including mine, so you can def see how the matches swing pretty evenly.

 

Point taken.  As I said before, you would know better than I would.  Maybe I need to find better Millias......

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Yeah i agree with mynus, to me the game plan of that match-up really hasnt changed in the past 100years, get the knock down before she does 

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What would you guys say are key things to work on for her neutral game? 
I was playing a bunch of GG vets online and they were destroying me in the neutral.

 

I think I'm having most trouble with dealing with ppl that jump at me, esp at heights that HCL won't tag people at. 

Would j.P be a good answer for people coming in at the 35/45 degree trajectory?

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What would you guys say are key things to work on for her neutral game? 

I was playing a bunch of GG vets online and they were destroying me in the neutral.

 

I think I'm having most trouble with dealing with ppl that jump at me, esp at heights that HCL won't tag people at. 

Would j.P be a good answer for people coming in at the 35/45 degree trajectory?

 

6P is a pretty clean AA for chronic jumpers.  In neutral you should be spacing for CL and Notes, but be wary of your opponents options as well (Venom, Axl, etc).  I-No's normals aren't the best, and her hoverdash takes some getting used to.  You should ALWAYS go for knockdowns/corner carry.  Press the attack, but don't be reckless.  She has the best mixup in the game, and her oki ain't too shabby either.  Neutral isn't a weak spot with her, just one you should be careful wiith.

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Did you know leo can parry fortissimo and longing desperation?  :slant: 

 

Leo gives no fucks.

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What would you guys say are key things to work on for her neutral game?

I was playing a bunch of GG vets online and they were destroying me in the neutral.

I think I'm having most trouble with dealing with ppl that jump at me, esp at heights that HCL won't tag people at.

Would j.P beat people coming in at the 35/45 degree trajectory?

6p is amazing as an anti air, but it can be kinda hard getting used to using. When i play i use j.p for space control (along with notes) for those characters who like to move around a lot in the air. It's amazing bc it has fast start up and would beats out other slower normals, it recovers fast allowing you to air dash, hit another button, or do note before you hit the ground. All her other normals don't recover before you hit the ground so you can't use them in the same manner.

I would say learn how to hit confirm and get a knock down off of j.p, 5p and 6p. From here you get the momentum you need. Comboing off of random hits helps immensely.

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