Clousephinat Report post Posted January 31, 2015 I know, that's why I said this. you're playing online with a lot of delay, you're not doing S Dive at the right time, or you're just not inputting the normal quickly enough. Sometimes it can help to use 2P for that. In other words, you have to use S Dive at the right angle if you want to combo with it afterwards, if you say is difficult for you to do it with Leo that's really strange since he's in fact one of the most easy characters to do it right, you can do for example VCL YRC>c.S>sj.S>j.HS>P Dive>P Dive>P Dive>P Dive>S Dive>c.S>sj.S>j.HS>P Dive>j.HS>P Dive>K Dive against him without any problems, otherwise you're just playing in a bad online environment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antitidus Report post Posted February 1, 2015 Nah all others combos work for me. I only had trouble with 2k, 6p, 5h, j.h, S dive combo. VCL and all other combos work correctly. You are correct I just didn't press the normals fast enough. I think Leo falls faster than most characters as I never had a problem like this with potemkin/bedman. All I had to do was press 5s faster. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vegta12 Report post Posted February 1, 2015 good job to mynus on top 3. i havent watch the sets yet, but i expect 1st next time! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Freakmonkey Report post Posted February 1, 2015 So I've been trying to learn this character from almost square one today, and I've been using the wiki/this thread/vids for info. Does I-No's pressure work around dash canceling any of her normals on block? Is there any viability in dash canceling 2P or 2K, since I'm guessing using it on any normal that isn't 2H is too slow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rayplay Report post Posted February 2, 2015 What's FFVCL on block? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hollysmoke Report post Posted February 2, 2015 What's FFVCL on block? Sorry, don't quite understand your question. Care to elaborate? So I've been trying to learn this character from almost square one today, and I've been using the wiki/this thread/vids for info. Does I-No's pressure work around dash canceling any of her normals on block? Is there any viability in dash canceling 2P or 2K, since I'm guessing using it on any normal that isn't 2H is too slow. Due to her unique dash mechanic, some of her attacks are jump cancellable. All her normals are dash-cancellable except 6H which can only be dash cancelled when the first hit makes contact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rayplay Report post Posted February 2, 2015 What I meant was, if you do FFVCL and your opponent blocks it, what's the frame data on it? I did slight testing myself and found it wasn't punishable but still minus, but if there's actual frame data I'd like to see it. I basically wanna know if doing FFVCL out of a combo is good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hollysmoke Report post Posted February 2, 2015 What I meant was, if you do FFVCL and your opponent blocks it, what's the frame data on it? I did slight testing myself and found it wasn't punishable but still minus, but if there's actual frame data I'd like to see it. I basically wanna know if doing FFVCL out of a combo is good. Yes it is because it's very strong oki setup. You'll see lots of top I-no players doing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhannmah Report post Posted February 2, 2015 fastfall VCL's effectiveness depends on multiple factors, but if you use it on wakeup, with the correct timing, if you wait enough during your airdash to do it(there seems to be 2 fall speeds for FFVCL, one that falls slower when you use it early during your airdash, and one when you do it late where it falls faster) and if you do it as low to the ground as possible, it's VERY + on block. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheRealBobMan Report post Posted February 2, 2015 Used raw (no fast fall out of airdash and no YRC), it's -4. The beam moves slightly forward during its active frames, so sometimes out of a blocked j.D I'll try to frametrap with VCL. The beam moves forward and they block it meaty, so it winds up being a little + on block and you'll be able to catch them with 2K, or at least you'll be able to safely block. But yeah, -4 is punishable depending on spacing, especially if they IB (like throwing Bandit Revolver in AC/+R on block, though you can get more in Xrd since it's -5). So I've been trying to learn this character from almost square one today, and I've been using the wiki/this thread/vids for info. Does I-No's pressure work around dash canceling any of her normals on block? Is there any viability in dash canceling 2P or 2K, since I'm guessing using it on any normal that isn't 2H is too slow. Her dash cancels kinda help, but they're not a core aspect of her game. Honestly, the only move besides CH 2H where it looks like it would help is f.S because it has an early cancel window, and even then you get nothing even on CH. It feels more like her dash cancels save you maybe the last frame or two of recovery on a move, but because the dash has 9 frames of startup it doesn't help. With f.S it seems like she gets to dash cancel early enough that you complete the dash startup right as they recover from hit or block stun, but you're still not going to gain anything for it, other than maybe a frame trap into Fortissimo that'll only catch them with their pants down once every 20 games. Saving a frame or two when doing 2K > dash j.K/2K after you've conditioned them with block strings is better than not having the dash cancel to save you the frames. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VRyu Sensei Report post Posted February 4, 2015 I'm having lot of troubles against Elphelt shotgun corner pressure, since day 1. sg-S has 11f startup, and +3 on block. sg-HS has 3f startup, and -2 on block (-1 if reload). sg-HS (charged), is +5 on block (+6 if reload). The thing is i cannot find anywhere how many frames it takes her to be in "charged" shotgun mode. Except backdash and blitz, it seems we cannot do any normals during her pressure. sg-HS (charged) reload *2 > sg-S....repeat. Seems to be unbeatable. You cannot low profile those moves with STBT, and even with IB, our quick moves have too short range to use them effectivly (and risk/reward is ridiculous). Any advice? sg-HS charged does 10% damage on guard or takes 20% tension out if FD.... maybe backdash ? Blitz seems too dangerous. If anyone knows how many frames it takes to be in charged mode...that would be helpful Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SoWL Report post Posted February 4, 2015 The changelog:http://ggxrd.com/locatest.pdff.S - the active duration increased from 5 to 7 frames; now staggers on counter-hit.Stroke the Big Tree HS (41236HS) - the blow back on hit is changed; now wall-splats in the corner; added the starter proration of 90.Sultry Performance HS (j.236HS) - changed the bounce-off on full hit; the max charge time is reduced.Sterilization Method (214HS) - the duration is increased; now invincible at the knees; no longer in the counter-hit state during recovery. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mynus Report post Posted February 4, 2015 The changelog:http://ggxrd.com/locatest.pdf f.S - the active duration increased from 5 to 7 frames; now staggers on counter-hit. Stroke the Big Tree HS (41236HS) - the blow back on hit is changed; now wall-splats in the corner; added the starter proration of 90. Sultry Performance HS (j.236HS) - changed the bounce-off on full hit; the max charge time is reduced. Sterilization Method (214HS) - the duration is increased; now invincible at the knees; no longer in the counter-hit state during recovery. Damn, got sniped!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ariscool24 Report post Posted February 4, 2015 The changelog:http://ggxrd.com/locatest.pdf f.S - the active duration increased from 5 to 7 frames; now staggers on counter-hit. Stroke the Big Tree HS (41236HS) - the blow back on hit is changed; now wall-splats in the corner; added the starter proration of 90. Sultry Performance HS (j.236HS) - changed the bounce-off on full hit; the max charge time is reduced. Sterilization Method (214HS) - the duration is increased; now invincible at the knees; no longer in the counter-hit state during recovery. Thank ya!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
candydad Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Pretty much buffs yeah? Interested to see how hard the BS on projectile change will hit our VCL oki.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hollysmoke Report post Posted February 4, 2015 I like that f.S change though. Does this mean we have potential to frame trap with it and punish if people are caught pressing buttons? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deadsnake Report post Posted February 4, 2015 The changelog:http://ggxrd.com/locatest.pdf f.S - the active duration increased from 5 to 7 frames; now staggers on counter-hit. Stroke the Big Tree HS (41236HS) - the blow back on hit is changed; now wall-splats in the corner; added the starter proration of 90. Sultry Performance HS (j.236HS) - changed the bounce-off on full hit; the max charge time is reduced. Sterilization Method (214HS) - the duration is increased; now invincible at the knees; no longer in the counter-hit state during recovery. just to be sure, the increased duration of 214HS is on the active frames or on the startup? anyway thx for the translate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hollysmoke Report post Posted February 4, 2015 just to be sure, the increased duration of 214HS is on the active frames or on the startup? anyway thx for the translate It's a command grab so I'm assuming that its the startup. I don't know how choking out nerds with a guitar string slightly longer would be a buff. Or maybe it is and its just a greater window to RC? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deadsnake Report post Posted February 4, 2015 well.... a longer window to get chocked with a guitar sounds good for I-no I think, not necessarily talking about the time spent being chocked though. I'd be pretty happy with that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blackalpha Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Well this is just day 1 loketest changes but all good stuff really. I'm really interested in the f.S with the stagger on CH and of course the extra 2 active frames never hurts. I was afraid they might nerf her and I already like how she is in this now that I've gotten adjusted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
True_Tech Report post Posted February 4, 2015 i'm really worried right now about the blitzshield projectile change, i thought it meant you got knocked back, which i wouldn't have liked but ok i'll take it, but if you get rejected for vcl oki and they get a knockdown off that i'm gonna be upset. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mynus Report post Posted February 4, 2015 just to be sure, the increased duration of 214HS is on the active frames or on the startup? anyway thx for the translate The Kanji indicates active frames. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9TNine Report post Posted February 4, 2015 Am truly shocked they're making Sterilization Method better (although I guess that depends on if they were literally added extending the entire duration (likely this), or if they converted some start-up/recovery frames). Hopefully converting start-up. It already sometimes eats bursts without even TKing it (which typically gets the burst if not TKing wouldn't)... -9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clousephinat Report post Posted February 4, 2015 So still nothing about being able to combo K and S Dive in midscreen, oh well... f.S CH with stagger for the first time is better than nothing of course, but I'm guessing it will be even more weaker than STBT and 6H causing stagger so is pretty much still an useless normal nonetheless. I'm curious of how exactly HS Dive charge will be reduced, hopefully it can be useful to use for chip damage in oki. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hollysmoke Report post Posted February 5, 2015 I think the biggest nerf is more so the mechanical change to blitz shields and projectiles. If someone gets a good read on your YRC VCL, you'll get rejected instead of being able to land and throw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites