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[Xrd] I-No Gameplay Discussion

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I'm curious of how exactly HS Dive charge will be reduced, hopefully it can be useful to use for chip damage in oki.

 

Wouldn't count on it.  It just means less time necessary to hold the button, but you don't even need to hold the button so I don't see how it's going to benefit oki.

 

I'm going to admit I haven't played quite as much Xrd as I should of and have been behind on vids, so maybe there's some crazy tech I haven't seen, but H Dive as Oki seems like it'd be bad.  I only ever do it for those random chip-out moments, and honestly any reversal or just FDing would likely shut it down.

 

Biggest "nerf" I can see that was already pointed out is probably blitz-shielding VCL, but I wonder if YRCing before the shield counters would still cause the knockback?  CL in this game can be YRC'd basically immediately and it still comes out, unlike some other projectiles.

 

-9

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ほーちゃん | Ho-chan said

Blitz shield against projectile only repel if you are at 0-distance, works against I-no's VCL but not for notes. Sounds fair. #XrdLoketest

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Some quick location test impressions from various players on Twitter.

 

From https://twitter.com/moccosbr

 

Dash cancel:

- can no longer cancel normals into hover dash

 

2S:

- still doesn't hit low (some players speculated it would be changed to a low)

- moves forward more

- has more vertical range

 

2K:

- has more vertical range

 

K dive:

- causes ground bounce when fully charged

 

S dive:

- on counter hit, causes short ground slide or wall splat in the corner

- causes long ground slide when fully charged

 

H dive:

- final hit causes I-no to bounce backwards like P dive

- hitting a standing/crouching opponent doesn't them knock down anymore

 

H STBT:

- opponent floats for about 3x as long now

- can link HCL at midscreen

- causes wall splat in the corner

- can link 5H after wall splat

 

Ultimate Fortissimo:

- seems easier to input

 

-----

 

I'll post some more stuff later, if someone else hasn't already done so.

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Hmm...

 

Was actually hoping they'd either make dash cancelling better OR make her dash a bit faster...

 

Hoping that 2K change means it hits lower!  My mind is blown when stuff goes UNDER it.

 

K Dive fully charged could be neat but rare.  Who is getting hit by fully charged K Dive?  Kiiiind of like how S Dive bounced in XX/ on CH maybe?

 

S Dive changes sound good, especially if it's possible to get 5H or the new H STBT or something off it.

 

H Dive... I mean... I guess?  Bouncing back yet no knockdown to me is asking to be punished... like (old man reference here) Ibuki doing her air SA1 in 3S against Chun.  Sure, Chun gets hit, but Chun can SA2 you when you land.  Not exactly worth it.

 

H STBT sounds good.  Honestly, STBT in general feels kind of weak to me in this game (and compared to +R, it totally is)

 

UF changes are fine.

 

-9

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ほーちゃん | Ho-chan said

Blitz shield against projectile only repel if you are at 0-distance, works against I-no's VCL but not for notes. Sounds fair. #XrdLoketest

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I posted that but neglected Ho-chan's name. My apologies for forgetting the credit!

I should be the one apologizing... Totally overlooked your post! I grabbed it from your post in the Sol forum. :/

-9

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Dash cancel:

- can no longer cancel normals into hover dash

I never saw a reason for this anyway
 

2S:

- still doesn't hit low (some players speculated it would be changed to a low)

she really needs this imo, I would even sacrifice half(!) of the poke's range for it

 

- moves forward more

eh

 

- has more vertical range

eh

 

2K:

- has more vertical range

eh

 

K dive:

- causes ground bounce when fully charged

totally worthless, these sultry performance charge gimmicks are all useless.  why did anyone even think of this?

 

S dive:

- on counter hit, causes short ground slide or wall splat in the corner

this is her best buff so far imo

 

- causes long ground slide when fully charged

who. cares.

 

H dive:

- final hit causes I-no to bounce backwards like P dive

this might actually be really good

 

- hitting a standing/crouching opponent doesn't them knock down anymore

oh wait no it might even be worse now

 

H STBT:

- opponent floats for about 3x as long now

THIS is huge!  Make it JC like +R and we're talkin!

 

- can link HCL at midscreen

ok I guess

 

- causes wall splat in the corner

if it were S STBT on CH instead this would be huge, otherwise it's hard to see it happening with H

 

Ultimate Fortissimo:

- seems easier to input

this didn't need to happen.  stop turning your high execution char into a low execution char.

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theres that word repel again, does it put you in the reel back reject so you get hit, or does it just knock you away?

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There's nothing wrong with lowering the execution barrier. There's already plenty of stuff to deal with in GG, not having to worry so much about execution so you can worry about smart play is always a positive.

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I wonder if it'll be possible to do VCL YRC at a distance where it can hit but you can't be rejected, or maybe yrc before the blitz shield to keep it from hitting you?

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There's nothing wrong with lowering the execution barrier. There's already plenty of stuff to deal with in GG, not having to worry so much about execution so you can worry about smart play is always a positive.

 

agree to disagree I suppose

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My input in bold.

 

Dash cancel:


- can no longer cancel normals into hover dash

 

The only one that helped any was off of CH 2H.  Disappointed that a cool idea never went anywhere, but I wont miss it.

 

2S:

- still doesn't hit low (some players speculated it would be changed to a low)

- moves forward more

- has more vertical range

 

Moving forward will hopefully allow combos into HCL at max 2S range, which means we'll actually get knockdown for spacing 2S well.  That was one of my biggest gripes since a 2S hit at max range gave as much reward as AC Riot Stomp.  More vertical range is a welcome change too since shit would low profile it, like STBT and Millia's roll.  IMO that's a bug.  I'm watchin' you ArcSys.  I saw the ONE tester you had in the credits.  Hire more in-house testers dammit!

 

2K:

- has more vertical range

 

No complaints here.  I think I've had it get low profiled by Elphelt's roll, but not much else.

 

K dive:

- causes ground bounce when fully charged

 

Gimmicks?  Sure.  Sexy burst bait potential (charge to wind back and dodge the burst, then get a full combo)?  Sure.  I like that there's a reason to actually charge these moves now.  I'm still kind of irritated since they have initial prorates and don't even combo unless you RC on air hit prior to this patch... this feels like it should have already been a thing.  I'd much rather get the effect on CH.

 

S dive:

- on counter hit, causes short ground slide or wall splat in the corner

- causes long ground slide when fully charged

 

I'm hoping the ground slide when fully charged isn't only on CH.  It doesn't explicitly say that, but it kinda reads that way.  Getting something on CH is nice considering this prorates IIRC 75% AND scales by 19 RISC.  Out of the corner you basically get corner push, and in the corner you're doing shit damage that's only marginally better than the corner push.  Still, getting corner push for baiting a move and punishing with dive was one I-No's strong points before, and one of those things that made her neutral game less fun in Xrd since she lacked it.  You couldn't really scare people with dive since all you got was knockdown since you needed successful oki for corner push, so that a second successful oki lead to damage.

 

H dive:

- final hit causes I-no to bounce backwards like P dive

- hitting a standing/crouching opponent doesn't them knock down anymore

 

So... can't tell if we get a combo off of this or not.  Earlier posts mentioned that it charges faster, so that's a buff.  If we get a combo, that's great.  This move is pretty risky, and barely linking into 5P if this move was perfectly spaced before was one of those things that almost never helped but was good to have.  If that's nerfed the designers are stupid, and if it's buffed I'm happy they gave more to this move.  Getting a combo with the Pdive bounce back will probably look stylish as all hell, so I'm kinda happy if it goes that way.

 

H STBT:

- opponent floats for about 3x as long now

- can link HCL at midscreen

- causes wall splat in the corner

- can link 5H after wall splat

 

The prorate that was mentioned before sucks, but if we actually get a combo off of it anywhere on the screen, and a pretty good combo on CH or in the corner, then it's worth it.  YRC is an amazing buff to this move because of the utility we get, so it's honestly kind of risky to make it too strong by itselfI kinda wish they'd buff the minimum stagger on STBT-S though.  Nothing major... just enough so that they recover 1-2 frames after you do, so that resetting with this move is actually a reset and not just "well, I can't knock you down, but hey I hit you".

 

Ultimate Fortissimo:

- seems easier to input

OK sure.  As long as I get it when I intend to and don't get it when I'm trying to do something else.

 

 

Loss of dash cancels after normals isn't too big of a nerf since it wasn't that great to begin with. 

 

The thing that stands out to me as weird about this is that this change is coming along with the "stagger on CH" buff for f.S.  I-No's f.S probably has the best window for dash canceling since it actually lets her finish dash startup before the other player recovers from hit/block stun, but it was still worthless since you couldn't guarantee anything off of it if you dash canceled.  Now with the stagger you could probably dash cancel into a combo like with CH 2H.  Except that they removed the dash cancels.  The **** you doin' designers?

 

 

As for the SM buff...  all I want is for it to be 1 frame faster when used from the ground.  If I make a cold read and call out your burst with shit like 2S > SM, I damn well should succeed at the burst throw.  I'll happily trade all the active frames down to having just 1f active if I can bait a burst successfully from any ground normal.  I also don't like how the grounded version becomes PRC within just a few frames of leaving the ground when used at neutral.  Why can't I cancel before active if I can cancel the air version all the way through active?

 

 

*Wishlist*

Buff the recovery on f.S.  Doesn't have to be amazing by much, but it's super risky to use as is since there's 19 frames of recovery on whiff, and it's -9 on block to boot.  It's only lvl 2, and at that range the only thing you really have to keep pressure going on block is STBT (leaves a gap that they'll punish), HCL (they'll crouch under and punish), or note.

 

Leave the dash cancel on 6H, and allow it to work when only the 2nd hit connects.  That way we ACTUALLY GET SOMETHING for using this risky move and scoring a CH.

 

 

 

As for the projectile BS changes... I'll actually be happy to have a reason to use oki other than VCL YRC.  That shit was braindead and not fun to use.  I liked building up meter so that I could go Freakazoid all over the other player.  VCL YRC being so strong basically encouraged using it whenever you had a little over 25% to spare since it meant you'd keep initiative (gotta have some to FD in case they wakeup DP), so you'd always have your meter gain prorated and wouldn't often build up to 50+% because it was in our best interest to keep initiative and run our amazing mixup.  I would have preferred changes to how YRC works, but that's a GG Xrd system thing.  I doubt they'll change it much, if at all, before the next version of GG.

 

 

Overall I'm happy with what I'm reading though.  They realize that some oki options are amazingly strong, and that BS is kinda expensive relative to the cost.  This addresses both issues.  They also realize that I-No has a lot more weakness now than before, despite being much stronger overall, and so they're buffing her appropriately.  Can't wait to find out more!

 

 

*Edit*

 

Now that I'm seeing some other character changes I'm kinda surprised.  I'm expecting I-No to be top now.  Zato sounds like he's still ok even if he received some big nerfs, Millia sounds like she's having a really bad time, and Ramlethal lost a hell of a lot.  With Elphelt getting some welcome nerfs/tweaks and Faust getting a nerf to f.S's hitbox, I really feel like I-No is top material.

 

Yeah, our braindead oki option is weakened.  We still have the next best mixup after Millia (not counting Zato unblockables) thanks to HD and j.D FDC, and note isn't stopped by the BS changes since we have our 2-4 hit note setups from Pdive knockdown (using note from mid-screen on oki).  Where everyone else is getting a balance of nerfs/buffs, we mostly got buffs, and the 'global' nerfs almost don't apply to us.

 

*Second edit*

And to be clear, I mean TOP top.  Like #1 if these changes stick.  Odds are there will be some tweaks after this test though.

 

 

 

*Third edit*

Also, can we get 2D's vertical hitbox buffed so you can't low profile under it anymore either?  It's a sweep for ****'s sake.  I'd also like it if it got AC/+R range again so we could get knockdown out of 2S against characters that recoil under HCL with their hit reaction.  Come on now ArcSys.  :v:

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As said, new blitz counter VCL. Ok, that sux for VCL Yrc, but what about FFVCL on wakeup?

We usually use 6696 to do it, which put us at point blank (and vulnerable to new blitz), but what if we do 6636? maybe the "vertical" hover would allow us to be out of rejected range and still having the amazing FFVCL on wakeup?

(OSCA is currently investigating this on twitter :))

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As said, new blitz counter VCL. Ok, that sux for VCL Yrc, but what about FFVCL on wakeup?

We usually use 6696 to do it, which put us at point blank (and vulnerable to new blitz), but what if we do 6636? maybe the "vertical" hover would allow us to be out of rejected range and still having the amazing FFVCL on wakeup?

(OSCA is currently investigating this on twitter :))

I'm curious about this too, that would be great if it was the case.

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As said, new blitz counter VCL. Ok, that sux for VCL Yrc, but what about FFVCL on wakeup?

We usually use 6696 to do it, which put us at point blank (and vulnerable to new blitz), but what if we do 6636? maybe the "vertical" hover would allow us to be out of rejected range and still having the amazing FFVCL on wakeup?

(OSCA is currently investigating this on twitter :))

 

OSCA said 6636 Gets bopped by Blitz as well  :vbang:

 

Blitz change better revert. I LOVE VCL YRC.

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It's not really super horrible imo.
the Blitz buff helps us in many matchups and with the meter cost.. just be smarter when they have meter and go go VCL YRC every OKI, that's not good oki :P

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It's not really super horrible imo.

the Blitz buff helps us in many matchups and with the meter cost.. just be smarter when they have meter and go go VCL YRC every OKI, that's not good oki :P

The problem is Blitz blows up every dash normal I-No has and now VCL is blown up too. If they have meter empty 2K/throw is really all she can do to beat it. Empty 2K/throw is only good because they fear the high stuff.

I-No gonna be trash if this change holds.

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Calm your tits, holy shit.

I'm still gonna play her, but she will be bad if they take her one really strong Xrd tool away from her. Hopefully ArcSys sees it's a bad change and reverts it. Who knows though, maybe they want to make GG more like BB.

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The problem is Blitz blows up every dash normal I-No has and now VCL is blown up too. If they have meter empty 2K/throw is really all she can do to beat it. Empty 2K/throw is only good because they fear the high stuff.

I-No gonna be trash if this change holds.

The VCL oki was always strong. Like, REALLY strong. At least now it has an element of counterplay to it so I-no just doesn't run a train over people. Also, you actually need meter to Blitz, so if your pressure is good at the start of the match and you get the meter to YRC VCL before they can blitz, nothing changes. She also got a lot of other really strong tools that shouldn't be ignored.

Can we get mynus a conductor's hat to wear on stream to match his awesome gray jacket? Choo choo, all aboard the love train.

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