Jump to content
9TNine

[Xrd] I-No Gameplay Discussion

Recommended Posts

Make sure your inputs are clean.  If you do it from the ground, make sure you roll the tiger knee all the way up, and delay slightly to ensure you leave the ground.  If you press S too fast you may do VCL just because you're not in the air yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a consolidated list of final patch notes for 1.1 for I-No someone can link me? I think it's been enough time and experience that I can get around to writing the match-up threads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sooo................

 

Back in +R I was able to get j.2363214S as easy as YRC. (That move was my life saver) 

Now I have trouble getting it out because the overlap of VCL.

I know VCL YRC kinda took its place in some setups but I miss the damage in the clutch.

 

IN THE CLUTCH! 

 

Anyway, does anyone know a way to not get VCL? I've been trying to find different ways, but I have yet to find one.

I sometimes use the old KOF shortcut 2362364S to avoid that problem.  You can also buffer 236's with that motion and just react to things with the super by finishing with an 23694S input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

on VCL YRC...

if the enemy blitz guards it and gets the reject. did it mean that my timing was off? are the invul rejected state punishable after a certain frames?
normally in case the enemy rejects the VCL YRC i immediately go to 2k or hover jK/jS but it doesn't hit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

after blitz shielding a projectile in the 1.0 version, you don't get rejected(pushed back) but they still are strike invulnerable for a while. You can throw them during this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sometimes use the old KOF shortcut 2362364S to avoid that problem. You can also buffer 236's with that motion and just react to things with the super by finishing with an 23694S input.

You won't get VCL if your motions are clean. I use 23663214S to UF in neutral out of hoverdash and on oki.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So GreatFernMan helped me figure out the plus frame advantage of FF VCL. I'm going to post out Twitter exchange here:

https://twitter.com/mynusdono/status/588719840589910016

So it seems FF VCL can be between +15 and +23 on block. This is redic.

Someone want to tackle UF plus frames? Not sure if it's +27 like it was in +R. In Xrd it's (lvl.3, 7 frames active, 16 frames recovery)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So GreatFernMan helped me figure out the plus frame advantage of FF VCL. I'm going to post out Twitter exchange here:

https://twitter.com/mynusdono/status/588719840589910016

So it seems FF VCL can be between +15 and +23 on block. This is redic.

Someone want to tackle UF plus frames? Not sure if it's +27 like it was in +R. In Xrd it's (lvl.3, 7 frames active, 16 frames recovery)

Minor correction, its hard to be clear over twitter, I got the number +15 when calculating max advantage while factoring in landing recovery, since ff vcl has no landing recovery,

It should be between +13 and +24 (I also made a mistake with the calculation, forgot that blockstun starts the frame after the move gets blocked).

Or is that not what you meant by ignores landing recovery? Did you just mean that the vcl hits after you've recovered, and there's still landing recovery? In which case its max +15 i think? I dunno I'm not so sure how ff vcl works.

Either way its really plus. If somebody can record and then go frame by frame that would be the best

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You won't get VCL if your motions are clean. I use 23663214S to UF in neutral out of hoverdash and on oki.

You should learn the shortcut too. It's legit and much better for pre-buffering and reacting with the super in some scenarios (like when you want to place the super in the airspace in front of your head without committing to a jump until you react). I'm wouldn't argue that the other poster should learn to clean up his inputs, but this motion does avoid the down-back that VCL needs.

You (mis?)typed 23663214S though, which is worth practicing too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Minor correction, its hard to be clear over twitter, I got the number +15 when calculating max advantage while factoring in landing recovery, since ff vcl has no landing recovery,

It should be between +13 and +24 (I also made a mistake with the calculation, forgot that blockstun starts the frame after the move gets blocked).

Or is that not what you meant by ignores landing recovery? Did you just mean that the vcl hits after you've recovered, and there's still landing recovery? In which case its max +15 i think? I dunno I'm not so sure how ff vcl works.

Either way its really plus. If somebody can record and then go frame by frame that would be the best

I was just about to ask this for the UF stuff as well so we can get some accurate numbers. If someone sends me the footage, I can break it down frame by frame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Minor correction, its hard to be clear over twitter, I got the number +15 when calculating max advantage while factoring in landing recovery, since ff vcl has no landing recovery,

It should be between +13 and +24 (I also made a mistake with the calculation, forgot that blockstun starts the frame after the move gets blocked).

Or is that not what you meant by ignores landing recovery? Did you just mean that the vcl hits after you've recovered, and there's still landing recovery? In which case its max +15 i think? I dunno I'm not so sure how ff vcl works.

Either way its really plus. If somebody can record and then go frame by frame that would be the best

Ground VCL has 9 frames extra landing recovery, Air VCL has an extra 8 frames landing recovery (this is on top of the already 11 frames for both versions).

FF VCL ignores this extra landing recovery however, much in how j.D FDC ignores the 8 frames of landing recovery on the move. (Something to do with the fact there is some special technique being applied perhaps).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ground VCL has 9 frames extra landing recovery, Air VCL has an extra 8 frames landing recovery (this is on top of the already 11 frames for both versions).

FF VCL ignores this extra landing recovery however, much in how j.D FDC ignores the 8 frames of landing recovery on the move. (Something to do with the fact there is some special technique being applied perhaps).

ok then it should be in between +13 and +24 then. i think

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VCL is a lvl 2 move, which is 13 frames of blockstun normally.  We're looking at 11 total active frames (so 10 you'd have to wait through if we assume the first one hits and you didn't FF), then 11 recovery frames, then 9 more recovery after landing.  Are the moves recovery frames before landing the same as it's active frames?  That would account for it being -4.  I would assume then that if you fast fall it, you'd be cutting out those frames and going straight into the landing recovery frames.  If you tried to meaty it such that you landed right after the first or second frame (so you'd be throw invul at that proximity), you're looking at being around +5 (and also recovering slowly enough to get DP'd, which I'm pretty sure has happened to me in this context).  If you time it so that the last frames connect meaty you're looking at being recovered right around when they can act again, which puts you closer to +13.  This is great for baiting a reversal throw with j.D FDC.

 

Except you're saying that FFVCL removes the landing recovery frames.  Are you absolutely sure about that?

 

Anyone have a PS4?  Share button recording should make testing this super easy.

 

 

Also, props to whoever got us the RISC values and put them on the wiki.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VCL is a lvl 2 move, which is 13 frames of blockstun normally. We're looking at 11 total active frames (so 10 you'd have to wait through if we assume the first one hits and you didn't FF), then 11 recovery frames, then 9 more recovery after landing. Are the moves recovery frames before landing the same as it's active frames? That would account for it being -4. I would assume then that if you fast fall it, you'd be cutting out those frames and going straight into the landing recovery frames. If you tried to meaty it such that you landed right after the first or second frame (so you'd be throw invul at that proximity), you're looking at being around +5 (and also recovering slowly enough to get DP'd, which I'm pretty sure has happened to me in this context). If you time it so that the last frames connect meaty you're looking at being recovered right around when they can act again, which puts you closer to +13. This is great for baiting a reversal throw with j.D FDC.

Except you're saying that FFVCL removes the landing recovery frames. Are you absolutely sure about that?

Anyone have a PS4? Share button recording should make testing this super easy.

Also, props to whoever got us the RISC values and put them on the wiki.

I have the PS4 version to test. 8 frames of landing recovery doesn't need a frame by frame test to ensure it does/doesn't exist. Can you tell there is landing recovery on j.D when you use it, and not when you FDC? Of course. 8 frames of not being able to do anything is enough to be tactile.

You can confirm info 5P, 2K, 5K, even hoverdash j.K after someone gets hit by FF VCL if your reactions are on point.

Regardless, I'll record the test to verify and share for various timings (meaty & non).

----

On another topic, looking at numbers, seems that hoverdash j.K at its fastest is a 14frame overhead o_O

TK dive (which will be great CH bait in 1.1) is a 16 frame overhead. Oh lawd.

[hoverdash has 9 frame wait until you can attack, j.K has 5 frames of startup. Dive is 13 frames startup + 3jump frames].

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, i just wanted to ask when the patch was coming out???

Faust is just really not making me want to play the game anymore since actually comboing him and doing proper mixups are a nightmare 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed. When your BnB don't work and he can low profile your mixups which I-No depends heavily on, you know it's going to be a tough matchup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, i just wanted to ask when the patch was coming out???

Faust is just really not making me want to play the game anymore since actually comboing him and doing proper mixups are a nightmare 

 

Ultimately you want to get a note or knockdown on him so you can start on him, however Faust's game plan can vary depending on the player, so here's a few things to look out for:

 

Baiting 6P with empty dashes or dash j.HS whiff and hit him low. On whiff, go with 2K > 6P > chain route.

 

Learn to beat the wake-up 5D. It has 1-11F invul so it's basically a meterless, one button reversal. If you mess up your YRC VCL oki, he'll punish you for it. Delayed dashing to punish this is totally a thing. 

 

Use VCL to take back control of vertical air space when he's in it.

 

Full-screen scalpels can be responded with HCL into knockdown to get you in.

 

Backdash j.P can save your life.

 

Once you get all that down, learn the character specific combo. Faust and Potemkin have always had character-specific combos attached to them due to their unique hurtbox.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ultimately you want to get a note or knockdown on him so you can start on him, however Faust's game plan can vary depending on the player, so here's a few things to look out for:

 

Baiting 6P with empty dashes or dash j.HS whiff and hit him low. On whiff, go with 2K > 6P > chain route.

 

Learn to beat the wake-up 5D. It has 1-11F invul so it's basically a meterless, one button reversal. If you mess up your YRC VCL oki, he'll punish you for it. Delayed dashing to punish this is totally a thing. 

 

Use VCL to take back control of vertical air space when he's in it.

 

Full-screen scalpels can be responded with HCL into knockdown to get you in.

 

Backdash j.P can save your life.

 

Once you get all that down, learn the character specific combo. Faust and Potemkin have always had character-specific combos attached to them due to their unique hurtbox.

 

i just want hcl to hit him during hitstun  :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At that range do 2K 2S Note on Faust, he's not really fast enough to punish you for canceling into it without knocking him down first.  Or 2K 2S STBT-S which he doesn't technically have to respect but he probably will the first time at least and it keeps you in his face.  If he's standing 5K 2S HCL works.  If you're close to him and he's crouching 2K 2S 2H STBT-S RC 5D > launch combo or wall splat combo works on him (this actually works universally across the cast on crouching).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think standing kick -> 2s -> HCL works on Faust. also I'm pretty sure he can hit you out if you cancel into note and he expects/reacts to it. Match up is terrible

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think standing kick -> 2s -> HCL works on Faust. also I'm pretty sure he can hit you out if you cancel into note and he expects/reacts to it. Match up is terrible

2S note is fine. 2S>5H>note or 2S> S Stbt is good as well. You can frame trap off of max range 5H>STBT, changing the cancel timing to punish jump outs, 5D attempts, and buttons.

2S>STBT YRC>overhead/low/throw also works well. If you condition them to throw, YRC j.D will CH every time. Besides it is safer than YRC> hoverdash overhead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget you can STBT > YRC > j.D FDC > j.S > unprorated combo.  It's also pretty good when you have your burst since it's really easy to hide the FD with the YRC input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×