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[Xrd] I-No Gameplay Discussion

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I practiced some more today and had much better success. I can get a 6FDC6 to come out after a jump cancel most of the time now but getting the lowest possible dash height is still extremely difficult. Maybe this tech is too risky against characters that require the lowest possible dash (most of the cast?), but I think it might be practical against the taller characters because the timing is significantly more lenient. Besides Potemkin and Bedman, crouching Slayer is also tall enough to be hit at not-quite-lowest air dash heights. I'll test the rest of the cast later.

 

Hey, it's like it's AC I-No all over again!

 

(nice find BTW, this is really useful)

 

(edit: this WOULD be useful if i actually could friggin do it, that shit seems insane. Wouldn't doing 5H > 9j.DFDC6 enough though? Since 96 is enough for IAD)

This is actually how I was doing it at first. After about 20 minutes of getting nothing I started to think it was some impossibly fast TAS-like input until I rewatched the video and noticed the button display. Anyway, I don't think 9j.DFDC6 works because if you do 956 close enough to register as an IAD, you will always get the normal height IAD even if a j.D FDC is in the middle. It has to be 9 (or 8 or 7), pause, 6FDC6. Although I never got 9j.DFDC6 to work, I came to this conclusion after testing 7j.DFDC4 instead, which is pretty much the same thing but way easier. If you try it you'll see your 7j.DFDC4 is always the same height as a regular backwards air dash.

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I don't think 9j.DFDC6 works because if you do 956 close enough to register as an IAD, you will always get the normal height IAD even if a j.D FDC is in the middle. It has to be 9 (or 8 or 7), pause, 6FDC6

 

wouldn't it make it impossible to get a IAD by accident if you jump cancel the 5H with a neutral jump instead?

 

And yeah, 646 motions on pad are pretty much impossible to get without hitting some other random directions. Even 19 super jump cancels are extra hard on pad, i always try to find other combo routes because i always get 236 motions by accident while trying to input 19 motions. Clean 646 motions with staggered inputs inbetween at lightning speed are a fucking lost cause :gonk:

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Make sure you're buffering 66 before doing the motion. It makes it a lot easier. I've been practicing it since I first saw it and I'm 30% on left side and like 5% on the right.

I want to master this tech. 

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I don't like saying things seem unreasonably hard because I like pushing the limits of characters and things always get easier eventually but..... this seems unreasonably hard (I play on stick).

 

I think I got it once, maybe twice in a couple hours of trying it yesterday.  What I'm trying in order to replicate the video is:

 

(start while holding S) 5H (hold) 9 5 j.D 4~release S+H (FDC) 6 6

 

Technically I don't think that last 6 is needed.  I don't think I'm doing it right anyway, just trying to do the simplest version of it based on these posts and build from there but I can't get it at all.

 

Make sure you're buffering 66 before doing the motion. It makes it a lot easier. I've been practicing it since I first saw it and I'm 30% on left side and like 5% on the right.

I want to master this tech. 

 

Before which part of the motion?  Wouldn't you just get a hoverdash cancel if you did this at the start?

 

Cool find, just wish I could do it.

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Another secret I found is making sure you're putting the stick in neutral after j.FDC

 

I get it like 5 out of 10 times now. 

 

The notation I keep in mind in my head is..... 5HS~6986>j.FDC>6

 

This is done extremely fast!

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The notation I keep in mind in my head is..... 5HS~6986>j.FDC>6

 

What in the world is that 8 needed for?  Is there a reason it can't be 5?

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I kinda use the 8 as to help me remember the timing of how fast I have to do the inputs. I'm slowly finding out I've been doing it too fast and trying to jump early. 

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Holy shit, I found out just now that if you press down during the dash I-No flies upward. LOL Is that a 1.1 thing or was it there since the begining?

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Nah man, she has always been like that. It's pretty good once you get used to it :-)

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Lol, I'm stupid. But I can't believe I've never seen that mentioned. Yeah, it's nice for mixup, I'll try out some stuff :)

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Lol, I'm stupid. But I can't believe I've never seen that mentioned. Yeah, it's nice for mixup, I'll try out some stuff :)

Use it in your neutral game more. Amazing for matchup a like Venom, Zato, Bedman, and others where aerial dominance is key to winning.

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Use it in your neutral game more. Amazing for matchup a like Venom, Zato, Bedman, and others where aerial dominance is key to winning.

 

Any chance I could ask you to elaborate on this a little?  Any time I get 663 in neutral it is an accident (usually while inputting 66956) and I am very angry at it for even existing.  All it seems to do is put me in a terrible position, too high to be a threat to characters on the ground and with a laughably slow falling speed; it's like jumping forward with Dhalsim, only I can at least somewhat recover my positioning with an airdash.  Jumping normals from that high won't hit anyone (unless they are also jumping of course), neither will HCL, throwing a note from that high is painting a target on your own head, falling on someone with a normal is horribly predictable and punishable (see Dhalsim comparison), and I don't see what advantage airdashing out of it has over just a regular IAD.  I can see it's application in mixups as a crossup tool but I don't know why I would ever want to use it over j.DFDC, and if I'm running mixups like that then it's not in neutral anyway. 

 

Against Venom and Bedman all I imagine it doing is giving them more time to set up their bullet hell on the ground, and I honestly just don't know why I would use it against Zato; I-No fights him rather well on the ground or at hoverdash height as it is, seems like it would just make me an easier target for the shark. 

 

The only actually useful application I know for 663 is air-throwing someone above me (and SM is still better for that).

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Any chance I could ask you to elaborate on this a little? Any time I get 663 in neutral it is an accident (usually while inputting 66956) and I am very angry at it for even existing. All it seems to do is put me in a terrible position, too high to be a threat to characters on the ground and with a laughably slow falling speed; it's like jumping forward with Dhalsim, only I can at least somewhat recover my positioning with an airdash. Jumping normals from that high won't hit anyone (unless they are also jumping of course), neither will HCL, throwing a note from that high is painting a target on your own head, falling on someone with a normal is horribly predictable and punishable (see Dhalsim comparison), and I don't see what advantage airdashing out of it has over just a regular IAD. I can see it's application in mixups as a crossup tool but I don't know why I would ever want to use it over j.DFDC, and if I'm running mixups like that then it's not in neutral anyway.

Against Venom and Bedman all I imagine it doing is giving them more time to set up their bullet hell on the ground, and I honestly just don't know why I would use it against Zato; I-No fights him rather well on the ground or at hoverdash height as it is, seems like it would just make me an easier target for the shark.

The only actually useful application I know for 663 is air-throwing someone above me (and SM is still better for that).

Your not using it 'over' anything. It's just another tool that can make certain situations along easier. Nothing is catching her up there, and you still have another air option at your disposal. For example, 663 on Zato when Eddie is out lets me bypass him free and comedown on Zato with VCL YRC, or simply YRC j.K.

You have to experiment with it yourself. Against Bedman, idol why you would be worried about his projectile in the first place since anything Ino does movement wise can easily avoid it. If anything simply blocking a note could cost him the round.

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Err on the side of blocking when you gain initiative and learn how to deal with his frametraps.  Also learn a couple of frametraps.

 

Here's the thing, if you don't press your initiative and he DPS, you get to whoop his ass.  If you press it and he DPs you're getting your ass whooped.  We want him to not DP so we can press our initiative, but DP stops that so he'll use it as much as he thinks he can get away with it.  If you err on the side of blocking you're letting him go, but if he can't get anything for his efforts it's not even scary.  You know, basic stuff.  It's just hard to apply sometimes.

 

 

So let's say you try to bait a DP and sit there blocking.  His mixup is better than before, but still pretty bad.  5D doesn't have much range, Riot Stomp can be reacted to if he spams it, BB is so slow you should never get hit by it as an overhead (it might cross you up at the right range).  Push him out with FD from time to time to make his moves whiff, but don't get predictable with it since he'll run in with Wild Throw or he'll put pressure on with BB and Fafnir.  2P/2K > 6P is frame tight, unless he intentionally delays by a frame, so there's a trap there (if he thinks you're going to poke against 2P/2K > WT, he'll late gatling 6P for CH into wallbounce combo).  6P > 2S is a go to blockstring since 2S is +3, and he'll try to reset his pressure.  At max 6P range he'll go into 5H, and at that range it's difficult to punish.  5H is -9 so you might be able to IB > 5K/2S on reaction, but he can just special cancel anyway so that's high risk.  Both 6P and 2S lead into 6H, so always watch for that one since CH 6H means death.  With the damage buff in 1.1 he's going to be causing stun with 1.5 combos if he opens with CH 6H or CH Fafnir.

 

If you predict Fafnir or 6H, you can counter poke with 2S assuming you're not doing it on reaction.  They're both slow at 18/17 frames, but you have to be careful not to try to counter poke too late.  On 2S CH you should be able to combo into HCL for knockdown at any range, so you can take his initiative away.  If you react to the Fafnir or 6H but don't have enough time to counter poke, at least try to IB them, and don't forget you can still BS since the startup is instant and you don't have to do a complicated input like Desperation or Fortissimo.

 

If you expect WT, you're safer going for backdash/jump than trying to counter poke.  However, you also have the option of trying the FD/YRC option select.  If you're holding back and hit 3 buttons while in blockstun you get FD, but if you do it after exiting blockstun you get YRC.  If you think he's going to WT you can YRC through the WT with the YRC invul and then punish Sol REALLY hard (including with IK if you had 75% + match point + he's in Hellfire).  Besides that, WT now has extra recovery frames in 1.1, and he needs to have 50% to cancel it.  Another high-risk option is VCL YRC to beat WT.  It would be a lot better if VCL still beat Sol's 2K/2D/GV, but it doesn't.

 

 

If he catches you with VV out of an airdash string into landing, you can use a string like j.K > j.S > j.K > j.P > VCL YRC >FD.  If you do it right you'll YRC in that 1-frame gap between j.P and VCL (bigger gap if he IBs to create more space to VV with), and so you'll just barely FD in time.  If he pushes any other button you'll CH him into a big combo.  Generally you use the j.P > 2K/j.D mixup until they try to poke out against the j.D, and then use this frametrap to hang them for it, but in this case you can also just bait Sol.

 

Also, don't be afraid to end block strings in 2H or use traps like 6P > f.S even though f.S is kinda shitty.  SVV has crap range compared to before so it's easier to bait in blockstrings.  Hell, SVV now whiffs against max range 6P if you do it on oki, so have fun with that.

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Also against Sol, you can safe jump VV on oki for free outside of using note (I.e. Long range KD).

Safe jump with j.K/j.H close range KD

Safe jump with hover>air dash j.K or FF VCL on long range KD (after HCL~D). Can easily confirm from FF VCL if it hits.

Also practice Fuzzy Jump on his strings,

Fuzzy Defense Recordings for Sol -

A. 2D>66>2P>2K

B. 2D>66>wild throw

C. 2D>662P>662K

Put playback on random, go to town to get your timings down.

So in general:

1) Note oki is guaranteed mixup

2) safe jump is guaranteed pressure after KD

3) Fuzzy jump will greatly enhance your defense

4) BS BR & BB on reaction. Can SM BB on reaction as well.

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You can use 2k to avoid BB too. But less useful than SM.

You can do hjS~pdive specific combo vs him.

So that means:

vs stomp: 6P > 5S > hjS~HS~pdive > air dash S~HS~hcl/sDive

Vs VV (blocked): (6p > ) 5S (hit before he lands) > hjS etc

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What's a good way to keep extremely mobile characters like May and Millia to just sit still? I use note but they just easily avoid it because of their speed.

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Use note YRC to stop their air approach and chemical love to stop their ground approach. In Millia's case, she can run under it, but TK chemical love can catch her. You can also use j.HS to bully her. In May's case, abuse her weaker AA game. 

 

 

Also, have there been any I-No changes in revelator?

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No changes confirmed for any returning characters as of yet that don't involve new mechanics.

 

They've said they won't be rebalancing the existing cast too much for Rev since the 1.1 patch is still recent and has been pretty well received.

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I'm expecting the next rebalance to be maybe 2 months after the console launch of Revelator.

 

 

RE fast characters:  Trying to chase them around doesn't always go well, and you have to spend meter for an attempt at locking them down.  Committing to blocking is doing exactly what they want, but you have to get comfortable with doing it and know when to stand your ground until they overextend and give up some of their advantage.  Sometimes the best thing to do is just walk forward (and it helps if you can safely get a note out).  If you dash in you're committing 9 frames to starting the dash, and if you FD you'll be airborne instead of on the ground.  IAD from some ranges is really reactable and easy to punish, as is jump > dive and STBT.  If you get them to the point where they're running away because they got the life lead, you can shoot notes from a safe distance and walk forward to get meter while they're getting Negative Warning.

 

Also, HDive isn't as good as before since it's much harder to pick up and combo with it (very hard meterless, no FRC for low meter option), but it still has a use from time to time and is better in some matchups than others.  Snipe people with it for knockdown, or RC into a decent combo.  Make them realize that they're not always safe at 2/3 screen distance even when they're accounting for HCL.

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I'm expecting the next rebalance to be maybe 2 months after the console launch of Revelator.

 

 

RE fast characters:  Trying to chase them around doesn't always go well, and you have to spend meter for an attempt at locking them down.  Committing to blocking is doing exactly what they want, but you have to get comfortable with doing it and know when to stand your ground until they overextend and give up some of their advantage.  Sometimes the best thing to do is just walk forward (and it helps if you can safely get a note out).  If you dash in you're committing 9 frames to starting the dash, and if you FD you'll be airborne instead of on the ground.  IAD from some ranges is really reactable and easy to punish, as is jump > dive and STBT.  If you get them to the point where they're running away because they got the life lead, you can shoot notes from a safe distance and walk forward to get meter while they're getting Negative Warning.

 

Also, HDive isn't as good as before since it's much harder to pick up and combo with it (very hard meterless, no FRC for low meter option), but it still has a use from time to time and is better in some matchups than others.  Snipe people with it for knockdown, or RC into a decent combo.  Make them realize that they're not always safe at 2/3 screen distance even when they're accounting for HCL.

 

This is the thing I am having the hardest time with in GG. On the flipside though, you also learn to not mash and when to punish instead.

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Write up from my vid explaining the Command Grab YRC OS tech:

I-no's command grab - Sterilization Method-, is one of her most strongest moves in her moveset. Unfortunately, many times landing Sterilization Method -SM for short- includes making hard reads on your opponents' teching habits.

Although YRC OS was removed in 1.10, this only applied to BURSTS, not Dead Angle, Blitz Shield, or Aerial Tech. This OS requires that you have at least 25% meter, and less than 50% if you do not want to waste all 50% if your opponent chooses not to tech.

The OS works as follows:

Combo into 6P - 5H - iad j.S - KSH - Slight Delay 214H~S.

Note that without the plink on H~S - when your opponent techs, you YRC immediately and have to react since your PKS input either becomes YRC or a j.K, and you have to choose immediately between SM and VCL to either reset, or continue combo accordingly.

But...since

1. Ino cannot chain command throw from an aerial normal

2. Slash has button priority over Heavy Slash

3. In GG you cannot FD during your airdash frames

4. VCL & SM -command grab- have the same input motion....

If they don't tech, since you cannot chain air normals into command grab, VCL auto comes out.

If the DO tech, the plink of H~S is enough so that you will not activate the Slash button priority over the Heavy Slash. The delay on the 214H~S input is to ensure you do not lose your Heavy Slash input during the YRC flash/freeze - causing VCL to come out instead.

Since I-no does amazing damage in the corner, this OS is best served for combos heavily prorated: note starter, 2K, j.K and multiple air normals.

Finally, be aware that attacks that connect on your opponent during YRC/RC slowdown force prorate 80%. You can delay your SM input if you manually wait after the YRC so that SM connects and grabs the opponent after the YRC slowdown has ended. However, since your opponent gains all air movement options back after a tech, if you delay SM you run the chance of letting them double jump out of the command grab range.

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