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[Xrd] I-No Gameplay Discussion

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Ive read koichi twitter.

In fact, he does iad S > PSHS (OS SM)

He says that after iad S > HS (in case of no tech), you can land into 5P > iad S repeat.

Thats really great for mass corner carry. And easier than VCL OS

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Ive read koichi twitter.

In fact, he does iad S > PSHS (OS SM)

He says that after iad S > HS (in case of no tech), you can land into 5P > iad S repeat.

Thats really great for mass corner carry. And easier than VCL OS

Oh that's real nice for a midscreen option.

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So this OS is pretty awesome. Took me a couple play sessions to get it down, but definitely worth learning it I believe. Thank you for spreading the tech everyone :-D

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Thanks for the info on this OS, it's so good! 

 

I've been implementing it this way

 

2K > 6P > 5H > IAD > 2K > immediate KSH > confirm VCL or SM

 

when I input the KSH the buffer allows the j.S chain to come out and gives a ton of time to confirm to VCL

if the j.K whiffs I get the YRC as soon as it can come out and gives plenty of time to input the SM

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For the new FD OS:

63214 6321+S+HS.

Will trigger overdrive if opponent push a button, and FD if not.

Yesss I didn't of utilizing this but this will be great for our wakeup game and save tons of meter. But def still gotta watch out for Slayer 6P or other normals that just beat it outright.

 

Thanks Vryu sensei~~~

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It'll probably help in that regard though.  With a lot of moves, it loses specifically when they are late on purpose or punish on reaction to the flash.  In this case the super only comes out if they already started moving.

 

 

Can't wait for this blocking OS to be fixed.

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Hey, so remember back in April when Mynus posted about FFVCL removing landing recovery?  It certainly feels like it can still be there, and so I think I figured out what's up now that I'm dicking around with +R.  I think if you FFVCL on the last possible airdash frame, that's what causes the landing recovery to disappear.  I can get it pretty consistently in +R, though I can't really get it in AC (might be screwing up the timing since I-No's airdash changed in +R and stayed that way in Xrd).

 

 

Also, I'm finding that I can sometimes get j.D FDC in +R to not have the landing recovery, though it usually does.  Not sure what I'm doing, but that would be important to know if someone has any info for me.  I'll post in the +R topic too so that people can respond in the appropriate place.

Edited by TheRealBobMan

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I'm recently discovering the power of TK SM. I'm not sure how practical it will become, but it seems like a very viable anti air tool for anticipating an attack any time someone goes into the air. At certain distances you'll expect an airdash once someone leaves the ground, and pre-emptive TK SM will def get them for it. Same with if someone jumps in on you and attacks, reacting to the jump and going for TK SM seems to beat out a good amount of stuff. (mostly just tested this w/ Sol, but I'm sure will work on most characters)

 

obv double jumps or air backdash will avoid it and most likely they'll be able to punish by simply running up, but for those who are insistent on going in will be getting a big surprise with this move.

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Hey guys, I'm doing some 1.1 testing while editing the wiki and it looks like 2H doesn't prorate anymore.  Was this known from the patch notes?  Seems new to me.

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I'm recently discovering the power of TK SM. I'm not sure how practical it will become, but it seems like a very viable anti air tool for anticipating an attack any time someone goes into the air. At certain distances you'll expect an airdash once someone leaves the ground, and pre-emptive TK SM will def get them for it. Same with if someone jumps in on you and attacks, reacting to the jump and going for TK SM seems to beat out a good amount of stuff. (mostly just tested this w/ Sol, but I'm sure will work on most characters)

 

obv double jumps or air backdash will avoid it and most likely they'll be able to punish by simply running up, but for those who are insistent on going in will be getting a big surprise with this move.

had a chance to test this vs eddie fly moves yet? this has been a bane for me. I'm at work right now i'll try it out when I get home but just wondering. 

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412361 H or S + any button.  STBT proxy block OS.  Useful for going under Fafnir, 5P's, 6Ps, anything you could low profile.

 

But here's the kicker:  It will basically always be a counter-hit because of the OS.  Counterhit STBT has some silliness available:

 

STBT-S (CH) RRC -> Instant Kill (hellfire, anywhere on screen)

 

STBT-H (CH) -> link hellfire Instant Kill, no RRC needed (corner only)

 

 

 

Hey, so remember back in April when Mynus posted about FFVCL removing landing recovery?  It certainly feels like it can still be there, and so I think I figured out what's up now that I'm dicking around with +R.  I think if you FFVCL on the last possible airdash frame, that's what causes the landing recovery to disappear.  I can get it pretty consistently in +R, though I can't really get it in AC (might be screwing up the timing since I-No's airdash changed in +R and stayed that way in Xrd).

 

Thank you so much for finding this.  This answers so many questions I had about FF VCL.  I thought Mynus was like trolling or something :v: when he said FF VCL could safe jump VV because I was never once able to safe jump VV with it despite trying for hours.  So much frustration done with, thank you.

 

I don't think it's quite frame perfect though, at least it doesn't feel that strict.

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Also, I'm retarded.  I think this was pointed out even before then.  I was editing the wiki last night and remembered that I had written a section on that topic, though it didn't think that it removes landing recovery then.  I simply said:

 

"It seems that I-No falls faster when using VCL during the later frames of an airdash, though she will still fastfall if VCL is used right as an airdash starts. If you use the "late" version of FFVCL out of her dash > hoverdash technique (often input as 66956), you'll be able to catch the opponent with c.S before they're knocked down, whereas you'd need a YRC otherwise."

 

 

So, credit still goes to Mynus for quantifying exactly how many + frames we get and showing that the landing recovery is removed, which is more important.  I'll update the wiki to reflect this.

 

Also, you'll have to pay attention to which knockdown you use to set up oki if you want to do a late FFVCL to safe jump against most reversals.  I think most knockdown options wont leave you enough time when you factor in that you need to do the VCL late in the airdash frames.

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Off of ground throw, certain air throw heights, HCL enders and low height HCL~D, this is definitely something to take advantage of.

Also, almost any KD into note YRC. Either ground or air note depending on distance & KD type.

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Added I-no j.D FDC, and Option Select explanations to wiki, as well as some videos for the Overview (+R changes), and the YRC SM OS sub-section.

 

Whoever it was that made the combo chart/tables which character specific damage values, you rock way too hard!

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Thanks.  It's still messy, but I plan to have charts for most starters mid screen and in the corner.  You'll notice I put characters in order of damage from left to right, so you can easily see the min/max damage I-No does under each circumstance.  Color coding is all out of whack, but I tried to get it started.  Most of her stuff is moderately difficult anyway, so there's lots of orange.  Meter gained will just be estimates anyway so I'm putting it off, but at least I only have to run those values once (rather than use the same combo on every character).  I'll probably do a pass for that kind of info at the end.  I should also make sure that similar combos are in the same parts of each table (Ex: 5H IAD j.K based combos should always fall into the same order near the top of the chart so that it's easy to compare damage across different starters/enders).

 

And thanks for the writeup on j.D FDC and the FD OS!

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So due to throw breaks being added, will stbt yrc throw still be good?

It was really good in AC & +R so yes. Plus, STBT YRC j.D destroys throw attempts and will net you a CH, which is completely untechable and leads to amazing damage. Keep in mind that you can combo in the rare event it trades as well (if they used throw OS) with tech > airdash.

Of course, there are other options such as STBT > YRC > (throw/low/j.D/hover dash button/FDC/iad FF VCL).

All to apply mixup & discourage throw attempts.

The low option will lose to throw.

Note that when coming out of YRC, you can always throw them first due to the 2F invul after the YRC flash/slowdown.

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one thing that i noticed though is that if i try to throw immediately after a YRC, for example after STBT YRC, i always get 6H to come out instead. I'm wondering if it could be that on that specific invuln frame after YRC, you can't actually throw so you don't automatically win throw attempts? 

 

At any rate, it's just weird to have 6H come out after YRC when i'm as close as possible, i can't explain why.

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If you try to throw during the time freeze, you'll get a buffered 5H/6H.  You have to wait until game play has resumed for throw to work.  Since throws are instant you should still have a 1f window to throw them safely, but because you can't buffer the throw during time freeze they can jump on the same frame to escape.

 

But since they'll be slowed, it's much harder for them to do anything.  If you think they'll jump, 2K will catch them not blocking low since the fastest jumps are 3f which doubles to 6f.  They also can't really counter poke.  Honestly, with 6H being such a good jump bait, if you're not messing up by doing the 6H too early they really don't have an answer besides using a reversal or using jump > FD.  Backdash can work for some characters, but there's a high risk of getting caught by the second hit of 6H and letting I-No HCL for knockdown anyway.

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This thread is super crowded. But guys......where do I even start with this character? I've gotten a bunch of names of players to watch but I'm actually curious about her OS stuff. I wanna know them all.

Edit: Actually that was a really dumb question, you guys actually USE YOUR WIKI and keep it updated. I'll just use that!

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Hey so... Fastfall j.D.  It's a thing.  It actually occurs in some of the weird 'max range HCL > late YRC > dash j.D' combos I posted in the combo thread.  It seems to work just like the "late" version of FFVCL.  Do j.D during the last frames of airdash (though the timing seems different from FFVCL - I get it if I 'IAD j.K > j.P > j.D', but not when using 'IAD j.K > j.S > j.D').  It also works during any frames of air backdash.  It also does not seem to remove the landing recovery of j.D, which limits what it's good for.

 

 

Anyone got any fancy stuff with it?  I mean, it's been there, so I'm sure people have been using it without thinking about it, but we should discuss and research what it gives us.  I just started thinking about it because I did this to Millia in the corner:

 

SM > Pdive > dash j.H > FF j.D > late VCL > c.S > VCL > 5P > c.S > sj.S > sj.H > Kdive              (182)

 

 

Nothing super special, but it does open things up, like in those 'HCL > late YRC' routes I just mentioned.  I haven't been getting into raw hit RC combos, but now that I'm going to start looking into that kind of thing, it might be really good.  Like, if you wanted to feint with the 66956 j.K > j.S > j.K > j.P mixup, you could instead j.K > j.P > FF j.D to immediately land here and go into a mixup.  You use the usual j.P > 2K/j.D to get them conditioned to block the whole string and look for an opening later, then end the airdash early and go low/throw.

 

The best part is that you can YRC the j.D and do another j.D once they start catching on to this mixup.  :v:

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I haven't used it much. I noticed it when trying to develop mix ups involving crossing over someone on wake up then air dash back into jump d to recross-up. Instead, as you pointed out, you usually just immediately fall down. (Though there is a small window where that mix up still works between the fast fall timing and when you'd actually turn around after the air backdash, causing the jump d to wiff)

I'll look into more combo stuff now though and see if I find anything good from the airdash j.hs -> j.d route.

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