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[Xrd] I-No Gameplay Discussion

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When you super jump, let the stick/your thumb if on pad, return to neutral for the slightest second, then p so that the 2369p doesn't register and instead reads as 2,3,69p.

or you can super jump doing 19 instead. Either way isn't too difficult, these might work for you. There may be other solutions as well.

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What combo are they doing using j.P to get better knockdown?  Is this character specific to lightweights or something?  I mean, vs most characters it's pretty easy to use 2S > HCL knockdown or Pdive knockdown.

When I need to do a super jump link I'll use 19 to make sure there's no chance for 236 in there.

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I assume he's talking about sj.p midscreen to end in s-dive for a closer knockdown?  That combo is character specific and doesn't work depending on the number of hits before you launch the opponent in to iAd ffvcl stuff.  If that is the combo your talking about that is :-)

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I do Superjump j.p with 19 input always like TheRealBobMan. No chance of any accidental dives.

 

Choysauce listed all the variations to the sj.P>j.S>j.H>S Dive ender for midscreen IAD combos. Depending on character, you either need a normal IAD link, or a superjump IAD link for it to work, and you can't have too many hits before. For some characters, you need regular j.P and stuff like that.

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Ah ok, I'll have to look into that some.  Sdive knockdown is definitely better than airborne HCL ~ D knockdown in term of set-up time, and you would get comparable corner push.

 

Oh, so what do you guys think of having damage values for when a combo starts on a character sub 50% health (when guts first starts to kick in) on the wiki?  Think it's useful or unnecessary?  Maybe I should get rid of that and have extra damage values for combos with Overdrives when in hellfire?

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For me personally, I'd rather have the hellfire values for hitting with air super or stuff like 2d -> desperation in the corner.

If the damage values are equally affected for guts kicking in that would be more character specific anyways.

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I do Superjump j.p with 19 input always like TheRealBobMan. No chance of any accidental dives.

 

I can assure you that 19 is really, REALLY hard to do on pad consistently without rolling your thumb and getting random dives. On stick I assume it's really easy, but on pad it's a nightmare. I always try to find substitutes for SJ combos.

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What combo are they doing using j.P to get better knockdown?  Is this character specific to lightweights or something?  I mean, vs most characters it's pretty easy to use 2S > HCL knockdown or Pdive knockdown.

When I need to do a super jump link I'll use 19 to make sure there's no chance for 236 in there.

For example in meaty Koichi normally does this FFVCL (hit)>j.K>j.P>5P>5P>5P>sj.P>j.S>j.HS>S Dive, that way if someone doesn't try to block FFVCL you're more guaranteed to follow this with j.K than with j.S, and thanks to that you can get your knockdown with S Dive instead of DCL, which gives a much better knockdown.

If I do a combo with sj.P with another way that gives more untech time than 5P like c.S or VCL I can do it, but just after the 5P seems impossible to me, to quickly and I get a P Dive TK, and if it's too late the sj.P doesn't hit the opponent quickly enough.

And yeah, I play with pad so I guess that has to do with it, but I'm a little suprised to see how difficult is for me this thing compared to do IAD combos even with super jumps, which I handle well most of the time (except when I'm playing online).

Edited by Clousephinat

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Hey, how do you do the I-No tech where she hoverdashes next to you then faultless defenses and she instantly crosses you up on the other side.

I see Japanese I-No players do it all the time.

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You can instantly turn around and cross up the opponent using the j.d -> FD tech.  Basically you are Kara-ing or plinking I suppose from j.d to an FD input. 

The normal method is like hover dash -> double jump forward -> j.d ~FD -> j.s -> dive.  You can set up the cross up a bunch of different ways but that's probably the easiest to get you started.  

The alrernate method used is to negative edge the FD so you don't accidentally burst.  So that input would be something like, hoverdash [holding down two buttons] -> double jump forward -> j.d ~back on the joystick to start the FD -> j.s -> dive.  There are many different methods to hide the held buttons as well.

I believe this technique is very useful, yet ultimately secondary to learning other more important foundational things.  Looks awesome to fly in the sky though :-D

 

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It's also useful for strengthening regular high/low mixup.  You could dash in for a normal mixup when covered by note and do j.[K] > j.(s) > dj.D FDC (you're already holding 2 buttons, so tap 4 and then release the 2 buttons) > j.K.  It's like going for a j.D mixup, but without j.D's landing recovery.  Also, if you do it fast enough the j.K will combo out of the j.S.  This is beneficial since people might be stupid and burst when they see you double jump since they think you dropped the confirm, but you'll land in time to block the burst and punish it.

 

But again, there are more important things to learn as part of your fundamentals.  Going for single overheads in mixups vs double overhead.  Going for j.H or j.H feint into low/throw.  j.D FDC adds the cross-up layer and additional high/low opportunities, like j.D FDC after a j.D mixup, which already comes after the "am I doing 1 overhead or 2 overheads" basic mixup I just mentioned.  It adds ways to get creative with burst baits.  It gives you mixup opportunities in situations like when you dash in and feint j.H into 2K, but they block it so you c.S > j.D FDC, which is a legit mixup if you have 50% to use 2D > Desperation (that damage is threatening).

 

If you start learning that, make sure you're aware of the pushback from all the blocking.  A lot of the time the j.D FDC > j.K will hit, but then you're fighting someone skinny like Zato and you can't confirm anything big at that range.  2K might link, but then 6P whiffs, or going straight into 6P is too slow, etc.

 

*edit*

So turns out that if you put s in brackets, like you'd normally do if you wanted to denote "hold this button", you get strikethrough text.    see?

Edited by TheRealBobMan
Holy shit fuck the new dustloop sometimes

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Quick question: does the overdrive-> YRC to gain its startup properties still pretty much lose to oki where the opponent's projectile and meaty attack are gonna hit you at almost the same time? I'm trying to practice it against a simple Millia oki set (2D-> 236HS-> meaty 2S) and I'm pretty sure the reversal overdrive is coming out, but it seems like whenever I go for the YRC cancel I get stuffed. If I just let the overdrive come out, it will beat her, so I'm not sure if the YRC animation is getting stuffed during later frames regardless of gaining startup invincibility or what.

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YRC has startup frames, so you'd get hit when not invul I guess.  I mean, if you hit Millia her disc would go away, but if you try to YRC you might dodge the meaty 2S and get hit by the disc anyway.

 

What do you mean by "to gain its startup properties" though?

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I was checking out an article and apparently when you YRC the startup frames of an overdrive you'll get the startup invincibility before the YRC and only end up spending 25% meter. I've confirmed you can use this to avoid certain things with I-No like a meaty note from another I-No player on wakeup.  I guess the YRC itself though doesn't have any invincibility, so you can most likely only avoid something for like 7-9 frames with I-No's overdrive instead of 13 frames which probably just means Millia's disc + meaty attack is too active to avoid.

You might have seen this already, but this video is shows examples of what I was talking about:

Edit: Not the 2nd video. I posted it by mistake and don't know how to get rid of it.

Edited by darklightjg1

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I'll mess around with this some tomorrow and see what I can find out/hopefully practical uses for Ino.

in the specific scenerio your talking about with millia though, you could alternately just back dash yrc and hit j.s or stbt under the disc.  Anyways thanks for reminding me about this stuuuuffffffff :-)

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Ah right, ok.  Yeah, and that's pretty sweet for May since she takes a step forward with her Whiner super, so it could help set up OHK.  :v:

It seems odd that they let you YRC the startup of a reversal super when they don't let you YRC a DP, especially since you don't wind up spending the meter from the super, but meh.  I guess they either didn't notice or thought the up-front requirement of 50% to be able to super in the first place was sufficient.  That or maybe they figured "well, you can backdash > YRC, that's almost the same thing" and left it in.  I seem to remember posts about this with Dragon Install back when Xrd was first released, but I didn't really see it used much.

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So it seems like her invincibility runs out pretty fast if you try to yrc the start up.  Meaty moves will just counter hit you if there is enough active frames.  I was able to dodge some safe jump set ups with this, but it seems highly situational and potentially dangerous to me.  #2cents

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it's supposed to be 1~13 strike invuln, but we definitely don't get that, it seems the moment you YRC, all invulnerability disappears and you can get hit during YRC startup

the characters in the video don't seem to suffer from this problem

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Well yeah, YRC has a specific animation with 5 frames of vulnerability on startup, then an invul frame, the screen freeze, then another invul frame.  If you want to YRC before the move goes active, I-No's backdash is a better option since you'd have 1 more invul frame to work with, and you'd cut 8 vulnerable frames down to 5.  Even then, it's not as strong as the Overdrive > YRC option is for some other characters.

 

For reference, Zansei Rouga (the Chipp example) is 1-5 throw invul + 6-21 full invul, and goes active on 21.  You can YRC that really late and go through everything with that much invul, though it's not strike invul on startup.  World of difference compared to I-No's 13 frames of invul and only having the ability to YRC for 7 frames before the move goes active so you don't lose the meter.

Sol can TK DI for the 7-19 full invul, then YRC into a high/low since he immediately falls.  It's hard for him to confirm anything and it's not a reversal option so you don't see it a whole lot.  It's really more of a oki mixup tool, and even then if you have the meter to DI, why not DI and then oki?  :v:  It has a use but it's kinda situational.

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but what this seems to do for certain characters is to carry over the invuln frames of overdrive startup into YRC startup for a 25% "i'm full invuln until YRC is over"

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Hi just popping in to say that you're both mistaken as to how yrc works
When you yrc the move stops, yrc startup does not overlap with move startup, its not like yrcing the frame before super flash means the super will still happen and you lose your meter.

Secondly, once yrc startup kicks in you lose the invul from the super. It doesn't carry over no matter what the character



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"YRC has a specific animation with 5 frames of vulnerability on startup, then an invul frame, the screen freeze, then another invul frame."

This isn't how YRC works?  Maybe I could have elaborated, but I'm sure I was saying the same thing.  When you YRC, whatever you were doing stops and you perform a "YRC animation" which happens to be vulnerable.  If you were to use a super that has 15 frames of invul, you'd have significantly more invul time before the YRC than I-No's max of 6 frames (gotta cancel before the flash).  I-No is better off using backdash, and if you really want to spend your meter that way you can YRC that instead.  Requires less meter up front so you can use it in more situations, cuts down on the backdash recovery, could potentially mix up with instant overhead or low if they block thinking you'll use super and didn't space right, time slow could give you initiative to get out of pressure, etc.  If I was going to spend meter I'd probably use other options though.

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