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[Xrd] I-No Gameplay Discussion

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That's really strange, though it is a 1-frame tight cancel.  It's possible that he input the STBT a frame late?

I thought that maybe Jack-O was hit standing (2K opened him up) which would leave a gap, but he was CH during 2S, so I don't know.

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She was definitely hit crouching so that's really strange, I don't think it's because he did it too late from what I see, this has to be a bug that must be fixed.

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It's hard to gauge 1-frame timing off of a youtube video, so we can say "it looks like this is a bug", but we can't really say "this is a bug".  If we find several other instances of this situation with the same outcome in videos, and no instances of it actually connecting, then we could assume it's a bug.

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Was messing around with safe jumps and found that a meaty j.H can be grabbed out on wakeup.

I-No is clearly airborne when j.H hits or gets blocked but still she can be grabbed out by a wakeup throw.

Anyone knows why it can be ground thrown? 

 

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Thank you for posting video evidence of this.  I've suspected that this was a thing for the longest time because I keep seeing it, but I don't have the ability to record footage to test it myself and prove it.

This is a bug.  Please report it to Arcsys (and Aksys for good measure since they'll make sure to pass the info along).  I'm pretty sure this can also occur with j.K and j.S.  Apparently they patched an issue where Sol could safe jump into VV and get thrown anyway, but this slipped through the cracks.  I get the feeling it's a global bug, or if not completely global it would be a systemic problem based on the way the game determines if you're on the ground or in the air.  I really hope that fixing this would also fix I-No's issue where people can low profile under her aerial overheads as they're landing (maybe she's considered grounded before the hitbox reaches, so the hitbox turns off), but that's likely to be a different bug.  If it's intended they need to think about better ways to balance I-No.

Seriously, I can freeze frame this video on the frame that Sol is starting is throw, and I-No is still airborne doing j.H.  This is bogus.

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Looks more like what happens when you try to do j.H when you're not quite high enough off your dash for the attack to come out, results in a fake out of sorts.  You can get a significant portion of the startup to animate without it going active.  IIRC, I-No should be able to throw before appearing to touch down as well, but it's been a long time since I've messed with it.  Pretty sure this has been in the series since forever.

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Any tips on how to do I-No's 66[9]66 sooner after leaving the ground? I see players do it immediately after leaving the ground. I thought Ino has to be at a certain height for it to work.

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@Ryd':  Nah, you can pause the video and see the frame that Sol is starting to throw while I-No is still in the air.  Also, he recorded his input for I-No, so it's the same thing being played back for the first 2 instances where Sol attempts to jump, etc.  The j.H is going active.  It's a bug, and it's bullshit.

 

@Vegeas:  66956.  You 66 to dash, roll up to 9, release to neutral, then hit 6.  You don't have to go as high as doing 6666.  There is a minimum height requirement, but with some practice you'll get as low as you can possibly be, which is right around HD start height.

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14 hours ago, TheRealBobMan said:

Thank you for posting video evidence of this.  I've suspected that this was a thing for the longest time because I keep seeing it, but I don't have the ability to record footage to test it myself and prove it.

This is a bug.  Please report it to Arcsys (and Aksys for good measure since they'll make sure to pass the info along).

I have written to both of them on twitter including the video.

Let's see what they have to say about it

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I've also been thrown out of air normals before, but I always figured that I did it lower than I realized and landed without it coming out.

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So i haven't played the game since the first 2 months of it's release and would like to get back into it, but i forgot so many things, that i'm basically starting from scratch again. So does anyone have any tips for doing the IAD after HS in combos? i don't get it often enough to be able to say i can do those combos at all. Also did I-NO's combos/special moves change in any significant way?

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Would really like to hear thoughts on the Sol matchup from I-no's perspective:

 

- Kimosabae

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Does I-No's Ultimate Fortissimo super not have invincibility? I try using it as Oki because she's like +20 on block but sometimes I get hit out of it by Sol and Sin's DP.

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It's only invincible up to the 1st active frame. Some DP's invincibility last longer than that, so they end up beating her. It's a bit annoying. It can also lose to 6P sometimes.

By the way does anyone know any safe jumps/good baits against Sol's VV as I-no while not giving up pressure? I haven't looked into it in a while and TBH when he has 50% meter, I'd like to avoid even blocking it because the blockstun after RC is just giving him back momentum. Midscreen, one I'm thinking of is hit HCL~D and then just hoverdash right above him and then cross up VCL->YRC (kind of hard to convert from compared to the lower version of 66~3->VCL->YRC though).

Meaty note is usually good against most characters and easy to bait reversals with a quick hoverdash, but Sol's reversal is the exception and I usually have to FD in the air during the hoverdash to block it. I haven't started using empty YRC to hopefully mess up his timing. 'Gotta get used to doing that. I also have to get used to doing ~6P, 5H, j.H xx 214P midscreen to ensure the note is meaty and I have time to wait to see if he DPs and still hopefully go in if he doesn't.

 

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You already have most of the good VV bait options with cross up vcl, meaty note -> wait or hover fd/blitz, and traditional safe jumps.  Something you may want to play around with would be os'ing a safe jump into blitz shield or backdash(from farther ranges).  These will keep you from having to block the VV if your pretty sure he's not going to backdash or something like that.

Honestly, I have the most success with the note -> wait strategy although you have to change up your post note options due to the lower frame advantage you'd be working with

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In addition to those mentioned, you should think why you're using Fortissimo on Oki.

Opponent is mashing throw? VCL YRC will give about the same damage for only 25 meter in the corner.

You just want advantage? Note YRC should do the job fine for 25 meter again.

You have a read on Blitz? Fortissimo will murder it.

You're going for an ambiguous crossover / IAD crossover?

etc.

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One thing I kinda tested for a while that might work for you if you want to make VV whiff would be to j.D FDC away and go into falling Fortissimo.  If you time it right you'll land and Fortissimo wont come out, but you'll be invul on the way down.  The idea is to bait them to use the DP and make it whiff (you're invul so it'll pass through you until you land) so you can punish.  You get to keep the meter since the super flash never happens if you do it right.  You'll have to jump away though so you wont be in throw range as you land and so that you wont get hit by the VV anyway since it's way more active than the invul you'd get.  You could actually go into Desperation on landing if you wanted to chain the invul even further, but depending on what the other player does you're taking a risk by committing to that (Sol could VV or GV on reaction to the Desperation super flash to beat it if he didn't commit to something).

 

It's a tricky input, but it wasn't that hard to do back when I was messing with it before 1.1.  It may be harder now that the buffer windows have changed though.  I'll try to give it a shot myself this weekend (hopefully sooner) and see how it goes.

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The main issue with the "safe jump" set up is that it loses to throws, since doing the safe jump puts you on the ground immediately for blocking you're actually left free for a throw. I'm trying to figure out a way to make it unthrowable but i don't know what ground normal from crouching is really good for that. :(

 

 

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Actually, if you safe jump properly it's supposed to be safe against throws.  The idea is that you land with an attack meaty on the frame they get up, so if they block they're blocking something, and if they try to throw they get hit.  If they DP, you land 1-2 frames later before the DP comes out.

 

If you're getting thrown, either:

A)  You're timing it wrong

or

B) It's that fucking bug

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Was messing around for answers about Sol oki and found out the same exact thing as for I-No j.H.

It can be reversal ground thrown even if it's meaty (cannot jump) and even if Sol is clearly airborne when it hits or it's blocked.

To be noted that a crouching I-No on wakeup makes whiff it completely.

https://youtu.be/R_4OTiWMQzc

Now I'm thinking it's something universal but still cannot understand why it's happening.

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1 hour ago, madigawadesperate said:

@G0d3L in your video you actually whiffed j.hs

As I wrote in my precedent post that j.H whiffs on a crouching opponent and I showed it in the video.

But if I-No is standing it doesn't whiff.

And when you do a throw the character is standing so that j.H should have not whiffed.

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Hm... in this video I can't actually freeze-frame on the frame that Sol is still in the air with I-No starting her throw animation.  That's different from your first video where I can pause with Sol clearly starting to throw while I-No is still clearly in the air.  That said, I can pause during the frame where I-No appears to be invul right before the throw, and then in the next part of the clip where she blocks standing I can pause when she is blocking (not invul) that jump in on the same frame.  That makes no sense if it's a recorded input.

Can you try this again with two different characters and see what happens?

 

@felirx:  In such a situation, they would actually be put into block stun, and as such you would be able to see the block spark and confirm with the block-pause.  Even a lvl1 jump in would give you 6-9 frames of block stun (accounting for how tight your jump-in window has to be to bait a 5-frame DP) and 11 frames of block pause to work with.

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