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[Xrd] I-No Gameplay Discussion

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VCL YRC vs blitz.

As it was said, thanks to 2 invulnerability frames, ino can go through the rejected frame

http://nico.ms/sm25835445

Yeah we posted that vid example on the previous page. What is important to note is that if your timing is off, you can be blitzed. In the following example, the timing was only slightly adjusted, and that was all it took to get Blitzed. We are going to have to be very careful and spend time in the lab getting this right!

Watch from 2:27 - http://youtu.be/SiLzM9yGf38

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im really liking the fact of the stbt and dive buffs. definitely make corner carry even easier and more damage

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YRC Block OS

Just so you know Bob, I've applied this OS to everything, and am currently in testing mode to see all of the regular blockstrings we can blow up. Already exposed Elphelt shotgun pressure & strings (including cmd grab & lvl 2 blast), Fafnir, Sin strings, and Millia oki options and more. I can DM you the findings I've found so far, and we can collab on documenting examples & writing an article if you'd like.

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Just so you know Bob, I've applied this OS to everything, and am currently in testing mode to see all of the regular blockstrings we can blow up. Already exposed Elphelt shotgun pressure & strings (including cmd grab & lvl 2 blast), Fafnir, Sin strings, and Millia oki options and more. I can DM you the findings I've found so far, and we can collab on documenting examples & writing an article if you'd like.

You can also use this against Axl and his chain's hitbox goes behind you but the hurtbox is still in front of you. This OS is practically a free in certain situations. I'd love to read on all the situations it'd apply. If you guys need any help with writing it up, feel free to msg me, I'd be glad to pitch in!

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Just so you know Bob, I've applied this OS to everything, and am currently in testing mode to see all of the regular blockstrings we can blow up. Already exposed Elphelt shotgun pressure & strings (including cmd grab & lvl 2 blast), Fafnir, Sin strings, and Millia oki options and more. I can DM you the findings I've found so far, and we can collab on documenting examples & writing an article if you'd like.

You can also use this against Axl and his chain's hitbox goes behind you but the hurtbox is still in front of you. This OS is practically a free in certain situations. I'd love to read on all the situations it'd apply. If you guys need any help with writing it up, feel free to msg me, I'd be glad to pitch in!

 

I would also be very interested in seeing the findings of this project and contributing to it if possible.

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This is the kind of thing I was worried about when Xrd came out.  The game is fun, but I feel like decisions are going to degenerate into meter chicken at high level.

 

Though with the way meter gain works in Xrd it's still going to be ok.  Maybe not as good a game as +R in terms of strategic decision making, but it'll still be simpler which is what Arcsys wanted.

 

 

A)  FD/YRC OS for any sort of blocking situation.  Blow up command throws.  Blow up gaps in strings that are wide enough (in most cases you'll need to IB, but that's not hard with practice).  Blitz Shield is still good because it doesn't prorate meter gain, it gives you back some meter, and you cover different things that this OS doesn't cover.  However, since that's the big new obvious mechanic, I feel like people are going to prepare for baiting BS and get wrecked by this if they don't do their homework.

 

B)  Countering this on offense with frame traps.  Leave a gap on purpose, then YRC in the 1-frame window somehow.  Don't ask me how that shit works, but it does.  2P > 2H on block, you can YRC before 2H hits even though it shouldn't be possible because the gap is smaller than the YRC startup time.

 

 

I-No really benefits from having meter, so just drop your nutsack on the table with an early gold burst and RTSD.  I'm 100% down for helping to test stuff and write an article.  I test games in my dreams and the urge to squash bugs courses through my veins at this point.  :toot:

 

We're going to make Ogawa eat his words.

 

 

Oh, one more thing that I've been looking into recently, since I started looking at what we could invul through with this and punish with IK, is stuff that we can punish with IK on prediction/reaction (assuming appropriate conditions for time-stop during activation).  Like, not even needing to make them whiff.  For example, I'm tired of newer players using Bandit Revolver to end block strings and want to make them learn.  I start off small by throwing, but then get into IB > 2K > full combo.  When that shit doesn't work and they keep doing it...  IB the prior hit and IK mode on prediction.  If they actually used BR, that's game.

 

So that's another thing to investigate.  Can't really deal with Bandit Bringer or Fafnir on reaction, but maybe a Kudakero that was used to bait a 6P?  There's still so much to play with.  :yaaay:

Hell yes it's risky, but you're not even committing to using the IK and losing your meter.  You use the time-stop to react to what they did, and if your read was on point you just won.  If not you're safe, and now have the threat of IK with invul in your arsenal because you safely entered IK mode.  That's going to scare them into not pushing buttons, and as I-No we're all the happier for making them block.

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Finally able to do fdc consistently, on pad no less. :hype: and it took way less than 3 years unlike a certain other 1 frame link...

I have what is hopefully a few more questions regarding it. So it seems to be a trick that needs ino to be in neutral, is that correct? I can't seem to get it from a Gatling, unless I jump cancel js.

When is it best applicated? Like what kind of strings would be best. Right now I'm doing hover dash js jc fdc js for double overhead and also the low version, but the overhead seems a bit redundant with jd itself already being good for this purpose. There is the crossup version I've practiced a bit to, high hover dash on wakeup into jc fdc.

Saw some applications in neutral from watching uuzen, like floating over some ground attacks... Uuzen does this a lot and this fdc is very scary to be up against. Are there any other notable players who uses this? Saw hasegawa do it once, other than that looks like it's only uzen.

Thanks to the chap that suggested the macro, it wouldn't be possible otherwise.

 

 

personally, I just hold K+S starting at the beginning of the match and lift them accordingly when I go to use those particular buttons.  This way I can just hit D+back any time I want to fdc.  Using this method you willl never, ever, ever get a burst.

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I mean, I just have to lift one... the point is, you can work habits into your gameplay where you can hide K+S being held, like at the end of a combo or during a backdash.  Sort of reminds me of Urien and charge partitioning, constantly hiding quarter and half charges and keeping an economy in the back of your mind.  It makes for a fun metagame.

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Yeah, it's not that hard to learn to do hide your inputs:

 

'dash > j.[K] > j. > dj.D > back > ]K+S[ > j.K'

'dash j. > pink [K] during j.S startup > dj.D > back > ]K+S[ > j.K'

'2[K] > c. > j.D > back > ]K+S[ > j.K'

'dash j.K > j.S > j.D > press [K+S] during j.D startup > dj.D > back > ]K+S[ > j.K'

 

 

It's harder to get the timing+execution down for the 'dj.D > back' part.

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It's harder to get the timing+execution down for the 'dj.D > back' part.

 

tell me about it!  for some reason, if I wait a few frames after a djc off j.s, I can get it 95% of the time no problem, but trying to do it min. height  I almost never get it.

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I use j.FDC to escape pressure all the time. 

 

Too bad I didn't do it in teams at FR. 

 

:(

 

But yeah, people like to read the jump and jumps have momentum. 

 

That simple. 

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Yeah, it's not that hard to learn to do hide your inputs:

 

'dash > j.[K] > j. > dj.D > back > ]K+S[ > j.K'

'dash j. > pink [K] during j.S startup > dj.D > back > ]K+S[ > j.K'

'2[K] > c. > j.D > back > ]K+S[ > j.K'

'dash j.K > j.S > j.D > press [K+S] during j.D startup > dj.D > back > ]K+S[ > j.K'

 

 

It's harder to get the timing+execution down for the 'dj.D > back' part.

 

Thanks for writing it out like this, I knew a method like this was possible but couldn't quite wrap my head around it the other ways I've seen it written.  Was able to get it down with a little consistency tonight, probably 90% of the times I do it wrong I hit back too early (sometimes I swear I waited til after pressing j.D too but the input display says otherwise).  Man I'm a little jealous of Hitbox players right now.

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due to the leniency of air super's input, i-no can hoverdash fortissimo and cancel the startup into landing, with literally no landing recovery. D:

 

best input is probably 236624S. if you can avoid inputting 214H...

 

you get an extremely cheesy strike inv grab DDDDDDDDD:

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Hey, I'm noticing that CH 5K doesn't combo into f.S unless they're crouching, and even then it doesn't work at max range.  f.S supposedly starts on frame 13, and 5K should have 12 frames of standing hit-stun, or 13 crouching.

 

In previous games, a lvl 2 move (equivalent to lvl 1 now) got +2 hitstun and +2 hitstop on CH.  The extra hitstop only applied to the victim, so it would essentially be +4.  f.S is active for 5 frames in Xrd, so even if the hitbox moves forward, there should be enough stun to account for all of the active frames (the hitbox extending forward).

 

 

So either f.S starts slower (c.S combos into f.S so this can't be it), is active for longer than we think (this is what I'm assuming), or the properties for CH have changed in some way?

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Yo, i'm training with I-no and finished to learn all the basics of her combos, and can use it pretty well now. But i do need help on 1 or 2 things.

 

I have some difficulties with throws. I figured that when i play her, i get throw a lot when i try to mix with high/low hoverdash. If i don't hit high (empty hoverdash), the throw come as soon as i touch floor, and even sometime if i do only 1 high hit i get thrown just after.

 

I also feel like it's impossible to comeback once you get cornered against pretty much everyone. I don't feel like my normals can stop anything, so i just block during ages, and when i see there is a big gap, i still lose all attempts to just use a normal (i mainly use 2K in theses situation). Only thing that may help is longing desperation.

 

How do you guys are dealing with theses please?

 

BTW if you know some goods Japaneses I-No players, i'm interested!

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Is there a general agreement among I-No players that her 6P is below average? Every time I go for it when the opponent is landing I get stuffed or whiffed completely.

I mean, I'm supposed to have upper body invincibility but why am I getting counterd so much? Feels bad man.

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Man we just had the 6p discussion like a couple weeks back I think? Mynus and/or Bob showed the pluses and minuses pretty well. Long story short, her 6p does everything it should, but it isn't a dragon. (Nor should it be)

In other words, 6p is a great AA as long as it is supplemented with her other AA options. (5p, chemical love, j.p, command throw, universal options, ect)

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Yo, i'm training with I-no and finished to learn all the basics of her combos, and can use it pretty well now. But i do need help on 1 or 2 things.

 

I have some difficulties with throws. I figured that when i play her, i get throw a lot when i try to mix with high/low hoverdash. If i don't hit high (empty hoverdash), the throw come as soon as i touch floor, and even sometime if i do only 1 high hit i get thrown just after.

 

I also feel like it's impossible to comeback once you get cornered against pretty much everyone. I don't feel like my normals can stop anything, so i just block during ages, and when i see there is a big gap, i still lose all attempts to just use a normal (i mainly use 2K in theses situation). Only thing that may help is longing desperation.

 

How do you guys are dealing with theses please?

 

BTW if you know some goods Japaneses I-No players, i'm interested!

 

Throws are brutal in this game man, 1 frame and untechable so if you leave even a tiny gap in your blockstring and are too close you are getting thrown.  Also remember you can't throw people when they are waking up but they can throw you.  If you know people are mashing throw on your landings try to mess with their spacing and land outside of throw range into a counter-hit setup.  falling j.H into 2.H will counter-hit if they hit any non-invincible button and you can combo into STBT; of course for all this to work you need to understand each character's throw range.

 

Normals are not what get I-No out of the corner.  2K is 5F startup and there's a lot of stuff that will easily trap a 5F normal.  FD people out and look for an opportunity to super jump / dive over them, or just knock them down with a reaction HCL if they whiff a button on your pushblock.  Or you can use dead-angle/blitz if you have the meter and a decent read.  Longing Desperation works but is throwable if they're already in your face and haven't committed to a button yet.  If they go for blockstrings into jump cancel mixups you can take that opportunity to STBT YRC all the way across the screen and now they are the one in the corner.  I-No doesn't have the best corner escape options but they're not bad at all and she's one of the harder characters to actually corner.

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How do you guys are dealing with theses please?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2MxHzufaus

 

-If they try and and IAD or safe jump, try and 6P

-If they try and overhead, blitz or punish accordingly.

-Try and throw if you find a bad link in a blockstring

-Sometimes you might have to mash 2P to find an out

-If it's bullshit setplay, see above video.

-Try and IB to get as much meter as you can to reversal special.

 

If its a particular match-up you're having trouble with, check your replays and see if you can spot holes in blockstrings you can punish.

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Remember that if you're on the offense and you are planning on doing empty jump or a tick normal to throw, you can always go for a FFVCL / VCL YRC to get a free counterhit instead if you know your opponent likes to smash throw.

 

You can also mask your empty jump throw attempt with a descending wiffed j.H. This way they see the j.H startup and they will very likely try to block it.

Empty jump throw always depends on conditioning your opponent to block. I-no has all the tools to do this.

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Sooo................

 

Back in +R I was able to get j.2363214S as easy as YRC. (That move was my life saver) 

Now I have trouble getting it out because the overlap of VCL.

I know VCL YRC kinda took its place in some setups but I miss the damage in the clutch.

 

IN THE CLUTCH! 

 

Anyway, does anyone know a way to not get VCL? I've been trying to find different ways, but I have yet to find one.

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