[CP/EX] Kagura Mutsuki - FAQ/Q&A thread

[mariusrhpsd]

5d~a against hazama is really risky, or at least it was in 1.0, you could houtenjin through the armor if timed right before it becomes active, dunno if you can backstep it now

[Kakimori]

It worked out OK for me but probably just because I was up against a lower tier of Hazamas.

[Schizomanic]

So, a few things.

1. What purpose does Kagura's aerial reverse gatling (j.B>j.A) serve? I haven't toyed with it, as I've just recently started trying to play him, but all I could think of would be for a fuzzy setup.

2. Jin sucks.

3. I saw someone mention 6A in their list of air-controlling normals, and I frankly can't see how Kagura's subpar overhead could get the job done. If it could, though, I'd love to know.

[Lucalibur]

It keeps them in blockstun if you catch them during an air dash or whatever(rather than force you to go into J.C). It's not all that amazing but it's something.

 

Agreed, fuck the Jin matchup.

 

idk lol

[Kakimori]

I'm hoping we can get a guide for Kagura started, because I just came back today after a few months off and woooooooo was I getting my ass beat.

 

Having to basically relearn him from scratch and I'm not even trying to optimize combos right now, correct me when I'm wrong:

 

-2A is our best poke at mid range.

-6D~B or 6D~A is basically a 50/50 when they're locked down under [4]6B.

-2D~C > 5D~C > [2]8C is the best ender for most simple combos?

 

In general, should I be following up blocked 5C/2C with 2D~B into ?? or with [4]6A/B?

What is best to follow up 5D~A on block and on hit?

When should 5A be thrown out?  (I'm guessing out of 2A range but inside 5C range?)

What is a good time to use 2D~A in a mixup?

Seems like 6C and j.C are our best AAs?

How safe is it actually to throw out 6D~C?

When getting rushed down, do you prefer to footsie with 2A or try to flash kick out of it?

 

Anyway just looking for tips/advice since I'm far from a good player and hopefully like I said we can get a guide started from some of this stuff

[KrsJin]

I'm hoping we can get a guide for Kagura started, because I just came back today after a few months off and woooooooo was I getting my ass beat.

 

Having to basically relearn him from scratch and I'm not even trying to optimize combos right now, correct me when I'm wrong:

 

-2A is our best poke at mid range. - I feel 6B is his best poke. 2A is strong at close range but honestly I would opt for 5B instead of 2A whenever possible. It's an amazing normal.

-6D~B or 6D~A is basically a 50/50 when they're locked down under [4]6B. - I do feel these are fine to throw out when [4]6B has them in block stun, but most who have played against Kagura will block this with ease.

-2D~C > 5D~C > [2]8C is the best ender for most simple combos? -Damage wise, yeah, that's usually the better way to end a simple midscreen combo. You do forfeit oki options as a result though.

 

In general, should I be following up blocked 5C/2C with 2D~B into ?? or with [4]6A/B? - Depends. I'm becoming more of a fan of [4]6 A on a blocked 5C/2C unless I'm trying to get in. But if you do follow up with 2D~B, I'd say do nothing and block is the best bet. You can feel out the opponent and go for 5D~C or 5D~A but those are easy to counter.

What is best to follow up 5D~A on block and on hit? - On block, I would either backdash or if you have a charge stored, [4]6 A. Keep in mind, I don't go for much stance stuff on block out of habit from 1.0. It may be viable/wise to go for 2D~A or 2D~B.

When should 5A be thrown out?  (I'm guessing out of 2A range but inside 5C range?) - I hate 5A I wish he didn't even have it lol. Whiffs more times than not. It's good as a CH anti-air into 6C, that's the only time I use it really. Either sub in 5B, 6B, 2B or block in that situation.

What is a good time to use 2D~A in a mixup? - I like doing it now after a 2B, on oki to catch some rolls and chicken blocks. I've had luck after 6D~C because most will block low after it.

Seems like 6C and j.C are our best AAs? -6C lost the head invulnerability on it, I would only recommend using it to catch early jumping attempts. j.C and [2]8 C are great, amazing even. Depending on the situation, 5D~C can be good since it does have head invuln.

How safe is it actually to throw out 6D~C? -If your opponent is hip to Kagura, it's pretty risky to throw it out randomly. Many normals beat it, tons of specials do, tons of supers do. On block it's not bad at all if spaced right.

When getting rushed down, do you prefer to footsie with 2A or try to flash kick out of it? - If it's a character that doesn't force Kagura to stand while blocking, like Azrael, Jin, Relius, I almost always look for flash kick. If it is one of those characters, 2A is a good option. Or spend the meter on counter assault (which seems good for Kagura honestly).

 

Anyway just looking for tips/advice since I'm far from a good player  (Not sure I count as a "good player" haha) and hopefully like I said we can get a guide started from some of this stuff

Response in bold within your quote. These are my personal opinions for these situations but I have had success with them. Note that I play Kagura pretty conservatively most of the time. Patient, then explode when something connects.

[NecroTheReaper]

So, what are the pros and cons between deciding on A or B orb oki? Till now, I've always done A oki (this is largely due to people for some reason never blocking it). I think the main reason I never go for B orb is because if ot manages to clip someone out of a tech (or they just... dont block) i have no clue how to follow up without screwin up the combo cuz of B orb smp

[-Seo]

So, what are the pros and cons between deciding on A or B orb oki? Till now, I've always done A oki (this is largely due to people for some reason never blocking it). I think the main reason I never go for B orb is because if ot manages to clip someone out of a tech (or they just... dont block) i have no clue how to follow up without screwin up the combo cuz of B orb smp

 

Depends on what move you're going into oki from, but the most common thing I see Kaguras mess up on is A/B orb oki after 2DB in the corner. This one is actually real simple, and depends on what kind of reversal a character has. Take Ragna for example, after the 2DB ender in the corner, you'd opt for an A orb, because if he does DP on wakeup, you're safe, but if you do B orb he can DP and catch the recovery of the orb. Then there's characters like Jin, who you want to B orb if they have less than 25 meter, as c.DP is much too slow to catch you doing the orb and gives you a free CH, while his d.DP will beat B orb.

 

Of course, this all assumes the person is emergency teching and not delay teching. If someone is delay teching your A orb so it goes off screen, use a B orb next time, then when they start emergency teching the B orb, use an A orb or a delay A orb.

 

tl;dr - Know your opponents wakeup options and adapt accordingly. Wake-up supers > B orb.

[NecroTheReaper]

Then another question, I'm so use to ending with 2DB, are there other better enders?

[-Seo]

Corner 2DA is easily the best ender. A delayed B orb after it prevents rolls, doesn't pick up for SMP, so you're forcing them into the orb for some actual mixup. If they roll/delay tech too long, you can just loop a [4]6B(hit)>5BB>5C>6DC>5DA>2DA>delay[4]6B over and over. Still have to be aware of wakeup reversals though.

[NecroTheReaper]

So its a damage vs oki type of situation? I'm fine with that, I just always used 2DB till now.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Same here, that's good to know.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[eirei]

What do you do after a grounded ch 5d~c in the corner? Stuff like j.5d~6c on oki.

 

They land too fast to pick up with 5b if it CHs, so I've been doing 2a5bbc. I really don't like that 2a, but I don't see any better options?

[BlackYakuzu94]

What do you do after a grounded ch 5d~c in the corner? Stuff like j.5d~6c on oki.

 

They land too fast to pick up with 5b if it CHs, so I've been doing 2a5bbc. I really don't like that 2a, but I don't see any better options?

 

Is your back to the corner or the opponent's?

[-Seo]

What do you do after a grounded ch 5d~c in the corner? Stuff like j.5d~6c on oki.

 

They land too fast to pick up with 5b if it CHs, so I've been doing 2a5bbc. I really don't like that 2a, but I don't see any better options?

 

Assuiming you have stances left, you could 5DC(ch)>2DA>6DA>5B>3C>6DC>2DC>[4]6B>5C>6DC>2DB.

 

You might be able to do 5DC(ch)>2DA>j.6D4D>3C>6DC>2DC>5DA>[4]6B>2C>6DC>2DB. Not sure if they'd be at the right height to get 3C after 2DA stance cancel though, would need to test it.

[NecroTheReaper]

I was testing this myself, and when you do any drove follow-ups it seems very difficult to not put yourself in the corner. Of course, I was doin 6DC and 2DC. Is the timing for stances weird to keep them in the corner?

One combo I got to work and still keep them in the corner was

CH 5DC>[4]6B>6C>6DB>2DC>[4]6A>5B>3C>6DC>2DB 4.2k dmg

Now my own question, is therr a specific type of oki we can do on Haku so he cant just 2D it?

[-Seo]

5DC(ch)>2DA>j.6D1D>3C>6DC>2DC>5DA>[4]6B>2C>5C>6DC>2DB is 5278 DMG. Works even with your back right to the corner, just needs the smallest of delays on 2DA to do, but it's easy to get a feel for it. Might not work on larger characters like Tager though, haven't checked.

 

If you're slightly out of the corner you can do 5DC(ch)>[4]6A(w)>6B>5C>6DC>2DA>j.1DD>3C>6DC>2DC>[4]6B>2C>6DC>2DB for 5265 DMG.

 

If you're right in the corner you should do 5DC(ch)>[4]6A(w)>5BB>5C>6DC>2DC>[4]6B>5C>6DC>2DA>j.1DD>3C>2DB for 4628DMG.

[Saltycombos]

How do I deal with Hazama as Kagura? should I just give up all hope?

[-Seo]

How do I deal with Hazama as Kagura? should I just give up all hope?

 

Yes.

[Capablanca]

Cant find in Dustloop wiki
in EX Kagura has 2 versions of DP right?
What is frame disadvantage on block for each version?

[BlackYakuzu94]

Nobody knows, but you can get a pretty good by just measuring how long it takes for you to recover compared to the opponent.

[MikelAL93]

Cant find in Dustloop wiki

in EX Kagura has 2 versions of DP right?

What is frame disadvantage on block for each version?

Not much has been said on the frame data for Kagura in CPEX as of yet, but yes, he does have two versions of his DP now.

[Angry Guy of DE]

No exact frame data but look at them like this:

B DP: the version you know from the past.  Only has head invul now and does slightly less damage than before.  Pretty fast recovery(maybe more than in the past) so it's pretty safe if they barrier block it in the air.

C DP: its a shoryuken.  Kagura literally goes straight up in the air but has full invul like in the past.  Very unsafe if blocked on the ground or in the air.  Also doesn't have much of a hitbox behind him so it can whiff on people doing cross ups. 

[chzchan]

Cant find in Dustloop wiki

in EX Kagura has 2 versions of DP right?

What is frame disadvantage on block for each version?

 

Working on it. I actually only know how to log the data, but not mess with the wiki's code. I can try some copypasta stuff to maybe get a second box there for the B DP, but I doubt it'll keep the page looking clean.

 

C version is like -10000000000

 

B version is around -14 on standing block and -19 I think on crouch block since only 2 of the 3 hits land on most crouching hitboxes. I'll put down the actual values I recorded when I get back to my computer. It also has the DP type CH state recovery just like the C version as well.

[Moy_X7]

How exactly do Kagura's Drives work and string together? When can I push buttons? Which are punishable? I feel like I'm letting Kaguras do whatever the hell they want because I don't really understand how his Drives string together. That wiki page could use some work...