Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

A.X.I.S.

[CP] Tager vs Nu: Sequel to the nightmare

Recommended Posts

Pretty much the epitome of Tager vs Zoner play. All the usual rules apply:

Don't rambo during neutral.

Voltec Charge as much as you can safely

Use Spark Bolt to apply magnetism if you can't get a hit.

Once magnetized, it becomes dangerous for her to jump.

We can 360 her overhead easier now, it has no first hit. However, I think she is considered airborne, so you need to hold it a while. (not sure though)

Her low-special (Sickle?) is not gapless on blockstrings. You can use BSledge every time. I think it's safe to do so as well.

^Note that this does not include the backwards version at long range

I find the most annoying she can do now is not laser blades but instead her ability to pass through you at long distances now. She used to need to be fairly close in order to do this in CSE. Not anymore. It makes it a lot harder to get her back against a wall. If you have the reflexes though you can punish her with a 360 for doing this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok so I played a bunch of matches with toan. here is my barf-colored analysis of this matchup

 

Round start:

Overdrive immediately. Honestly, that's the best use of your burst. Actually bursting does nothing for you unless it would put her in the corner. You may as well use it for OD so you can get spark meter faster.

 

Nu at Neutral:

5D: Her most common move at fullscreen. Besides blocking, you can either B sledge or jump and make it whiff.

If you sledge, three things can happen:

1) She does 5D>5DD and act parsers backward. Neither of you get hit, but you gain some ground.

2) She jump cancels 5D. I think she can punish you here (I haven't witnessed it), but if she jumps she'll probably just airdash which makes this the same as 1.

3) She does 5D>5DD>low-hitting sickle. This will hit you. You might hit her if you hammer immediately, but I didn't get to try it.

 

Do not try to superjump over 5D. She'll recover and 2D you. Regular jump j.C is the best you can do to gain distance. While I'm at it, don't ever superjump. It's really bad in this matchup.

 

If you block 5D, stay low. 4D is slow enough that you react to it. If you block high by default, you leave yourself open to 5D>5DD>Sickle. And getting hit by that shit will send you all the back to fullscreen.

 

6D: This becomes dangerous as you get in midscreen distance. It hits Tager while jumping and also while standing/walking. Safest option is to just crouch occasionally. You can try sledging like you would 5D, but reacting at this distance is pretty hard. Speaking of midscreen distance, watch for act parsers and air backdashes. This is a good time to try spark bolt.

 

3C: Also becomes a threat at midscreen distance. Rapes sledge. Between this and 6D you need to be really careful while moving forward.

 

Luna (weird floating turd above her head): This is the mode that lets her do Lambda's act parser attacks. Be wary of sledging while she's in this mode. That said, she'll probably spend most of her time in Dia mode.

 

Gravity Seed: She will commonly use this after your spark bolt. Or at random just to be a dick. You might be able to avoid it with regular jump j.C after spark bolt (remember, DON'T SUPERJUMP EVER). If you get caught in it, try either OD or voltec charge. If your spark meter is already full, just wait it out.

 

If you land a CH B Sledge: Don't follow up with 5C. Jump and j.C instead. Burst bait setup.

 

Nu's Back to the Corner:

Once Nu runs out of ground to retreat to, she's going to try either jumping over you or act parser through you. This would be a good time to use spark bolt just to magnetize her. This is pretty much the only time magnetism will really help you.

 

As for approaching, your options remain the same pretty much, but if you block 5D you should be prepared to catch her inevitable attempt to escape. If she uses act parser, you might be able to 360 (again, didn't get to try this), but if the position isn't quite right it'll just whiff. This is why you should magnetize her. Also beware of sudden low sickles which will throw you all the way back to fullscreen.

 

Try to resist the temptation to sledge, because even if you absorb a 5D, you'll be locked into sledge and unable to stop her from jumping/act parsing away.

 

Got Her in the Corner:

Fart on her face.

 

(also she'll probably burst the moment you hit her so there's that)

 

TL;DR: Fuck CP Nu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really your best option against Nu is to block. Her full-screen mixup isn't strong, and you'll slowly walk her to the corner. You have to choose when to block and when to attack, but for the most part your best option for 90% of this match is to do nothing. Voltic Charge sometimes, block often, throw out pokes rarely and selectively, normal jumping forward is a fine option. This match is crap, but press less buttons and you'll have a lot more luck. Sledge is more often than not an unnecessary risk that should be thrown out when pick & choosed.

 

Oh. And if you're feeling Saucy, 236B beats reversal super for an extremely hard CH punish. Better off blocking, but if you've got them on tilt it's a solid thing to keep in your pocket.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah a lot of things can beat that super.

MTW cockblocks it.

Buffer 720 works.

j.B and 2B are two safe oki options for baiting it, although 2B is really tough to get online. I would say use 5A but FFFFFFFFF 5A NERF

 

Oh! And I just learned this part: She can only do it while in Luna form. If she's in Dia form you don't even have to worry about it. Unless she's in OD.

 

Also, I disagree with not using sledge. Jumping is a shit option 90% of the time, and between that and walking Nu doesn't have to guess very much to keep you locked down. You have to be willing to take some risks to gain ground. If you end up getting hit, you're no worse off than you were before. Tager has 13000 HP, and the only point that matters is the last. If you never get in Nu's face, you're going to lose to timeout anyway. At the very least it'll condition the Nu to use C moves more which will open her up to jumping.

 

This is all assuming you're able to sledge on reaction to 5Ds. But I wouldn't play vs. Nu on a 1-2 connection anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whoops, I meant B sledge. It's crap in most situations because she can just jump cancel 5D and do tk 214D (and maybe harder punishes I don't nkow about). A sledging 5D is still a risk. If you A sledge the first 5D, she can just follow up with another 5D and punish. If you A sledge the 2nd 5D, she can in some situations 2D you can punish you. Of course, the real punishes aren't the damage. Damage doesn't matter, it's that she can combo into 236D and make you lose all the ground you fought to gain. You have to throw out your sledges selectively, I never said not to use them at all. Any move that makes you immune to projectiles will have use against a zoner.

 

The reason behind normal jump is it forces a guessing game with the Nu. She has to either 6D or 5D, and whiffing a D in CP has a lot of recovery frames and lets you gain a lot of ground. Sledging obviously adds another layer to it, but you can't abuse it. Gotta keep it in your pocket and pull it out when you can.

 

Also worth mentioning that v13's 5C is a projectile. 2C and 6C are not.

 

 

 

Edit: was in the lab. Wakeup super totally beats all of those options. You can 720 after superflash, though, but it's still a hard bait.

Further Edit:

Apparently if you're stand blocking during Calamity Sword superflash, you can beat it with B sledge or 720 during superflash.

 

If you're crouch blocking, the hitbox works out where you can backdash and punish with fatal 6C. get wrecked

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:I:  I was referring to B sledge the entire time.

At this point it seems we're assuming each other to be on two extreme ends of "to sledge or not to sledge". I think we can both agree that it has its uses.

 

The whole problem with 6D is that it hits Tager while he's standing/walking. Works from a pretty far distance, too. It's practically an option select for walking/jumping. And if you make it whiff by crouching, you don't even have enough time to spark bolt (I can't get it in training mode, at least). The most you get is a couple steps.

Maybe yomi 2D will work? Needs magnetism first though.

 

MTW does work, both before and after the superflash. Not sure what you're doing differently.

I got 5A whiff and j.B whiff to work, but not 2B. Guess that's not an option after all.

Oh also, OD during the superflash works. There's enough time to land fatal j.2C afterwards too. Or fatal 6C. And they won't be able to burst because you'll be in OD! Awesome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha, yeah, probably. I think we both get the idea.

I should have clarified on MTW. MTW beats everything, move is the god if you know they're going to throw out a button.

Hm. j.B safejump works off basic 5D > B Sledge, but 5A looks like it only works when it's done meaty. When done off GF oki Reversal super beats you out of it. If Tager's blocking hitbox is any indication, timing 5a for first frame will get you hit out of it, looks like you need to throw it out so it pokes v13 on active frames 2-3.

 

But, yeah, in terms of 2D/5D, I was having not much issue reacting to a local Nu's standing Ds. Every time I saw her hand move I would crouch while walking and it seemed to be working out pretty well, but I almost always didn't land my first real hit until 30-40 seconds. It's a pretty shitty situation no matter which way you slice it.

 

There's also the disrespectful route of just going ham. full screen sledge B, random s.j C's, fullscreen 2Ds. Doesn't hurt to get explosive every ounce in a while. fuck this matchup

 

 

 

Was playing around in training mode. If you voltic charge you can cancel it into A.Hammer when they do the 236D low to attempt to punish you. You recover in time to block, and you projectile invincibility through the low so essentially free voltic charge if they don't have the 50 meter to RC/fullscreen super. Can punish 5D/6D > 66 > 2B this way too.

 

At max distance you can cancel the voltic charge after the 2nd 5D and recover in time to block the 236D, 2D, or 66 followup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nu player here and I'm just going to say yes, I do burst the moment you touch me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×