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Kiba

[CP1.1] Tsubaki Self Improvement and Critique Thread

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You guys know the drill.

Share your videos so we can help improve your gameplay. :)

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Sorry i forgot to turn on the sound for the 1st two matches.

Anyway, i should stop whiffing 5B, it's bad. And overheads, overheads everyfucking where :(

It was my first time against Azrael, i have no idea what to do against him

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So the short form of this is - you play like I do. You're scared of on-the-ground neutral. Literally every time you approached at neutral in the first two matches, you either IAD'd in, or did a [4]6D>236D to cover yourself. In the third match, you also did a couple of neutral 3Cs, but the pattern is still mostly there. You -need- to be willing to walk/run forward and throw out a normal to start your pressure - especially against a character like Azrael who doesn't really have good midrange options. You cannot rely on air approaches and specials to get you in all the time. Go find some matches where Kiba plays. You'll see him running forward a lot. While you don't need to do it as much as he does, necessarily, you have to do it sometimes. You may be amazed at how well it works.

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Yeah, that player is quite reliant on Azrael's 5D (overhead). He was trying it to me. You're gonna have to learn to react to it by blocking or you can learn his common habits and use a DP (like you did @ 7:23). The latter doesn't work on a consistent basis though as after once or twice he may opt to do nothing to try and bait your DP. I noticed he uses j.B > land > 5D alot.

1:50, 3:58 & 7:25 - You could have optimised your CH 5B > 6CC combo with a followup of 214B into IAD combo. Alternatively, you could have used CH 5B > 6CC > j.CC(delay) > 5A > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B if you wanted to opt for the ground ender. @ 4:52 if you optimised the combo going for the air ender route you could have taken that round if you did 5C > 2CC > DD.

2:54 - You could have optimised your CH j.C combo with 5C > 2CC followup into IAD combo, or in that case because they were too high, you could have done either of the following:

CH j.C > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B (whiff) > 5C > 2CC > Air ender OR;

CH j.C > 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.D > j.B > dj.B > j.CC > j.236A > j.214A

3:04, the OD + Mugen combo route you went for was unfortunately not going to work because you were a little out of range for the fireball to connect. You could opt for 623D > j.236D > j.214D instead, then followup into 6C > [4]6D > 236D (twice if necessary), then go for the DD killer.

5:24 - A better combo route would have been something like CH j.C > 5C > 2C > 214B > 22B, just to keep him in the corner.

Azrael has very little followup options after 2C (Where he grabs the slab of rock), so get ready to DP if he tries to followup. This isn't to say DP all the time because 2C is only -3 so your DP can get blocked and you will get punished. You are right to charge from afar, there really isn't any rush to get in against Azrael when he's far, but be careful when he's a little closer as gustaf can catch you if you charge for too long. Try not to underestimate the range of the attack, it goes quite far. I also agree with Airk that you should opt to dash sometimes rather than using IADs or [4]6D > 236D.

There's no point using the Blade Super against Azrael, he can just absorb the hits and you won't be able to punish him. You're basically giving him more options which is gonna hamper your gameplay. I agree with you Zouf that you shouldn't always be quick to use 5B in neutral. How the last match ended is an example of why.

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So basically you're telling me to optimize my combos. Well i know most of them aren't optimized but i don't think it's the reason i lost, is it? Anyway i'll try to dash but i'm afraid of his 236A tbh. As you said it has a huge range and gives him a chance to counter hit me and rape me. I know i can cancel my dash with barrier but i'm not confident to have the reflex to do it, especially online. But I also know IAD isn't a viable option against good Azrael because his 2C is godlike.

Well i'll try to work on my combos then, that's the most basic thing to work on and it will be useful in any matchup I guess.

I've noticed that the Banana super is completely useless against him. I thought I could punish him when he's absorbing them, but i asked around and he seems completely immune to any attack, throws and he's safe (that's insane :| ). Did you try to CT it? I wonder if it works.

Later I played with another Azrael and noticed he has not many options after 2C indeed, i could just mash 5A and always win, not sure if my opponent was really aware of what he was doing. I have all the replays but i'm not sure they are any useful, I didn't play so well but my opponent made a lot of bad moves (basically no anti air, ever, of whiffing a lot of stuff, or obvious jump ins etc.) Maybe i'll upload them later just for the sake of it.

Anyway thanks for the feedback :)

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I didn't see it in the video, but I think you lost the matchup very early on.

Basically, your yomi was weak and/or possibly an execution error?

I'm just saying, I know I've been messing up like that for a long time.

Jin Rachel and Valkenhyne are all adjacent to Tsubaki so it happens really easily.

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So basically you're telling me to optimize my combos. Well i know most of them aren't optimized but i don't think it's the reason i lost, is it?

Not completely but I feel that it is a contributing factor.

I'm not sure about CT beating Growler.

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So basically you're telling me to optimize my combos. Well i know most of them aren't optimized but i don't think it's the reason i lost, is it? Anyway i'll try to dash but i'm afraid of his 236A tbh. As you said it has a huge range and gives him a chance to counter hit me and rape me. I know i can cancel my dash with barrier but i'm not confident to have the reflex to do it, especially online. But I also know IAD isn't a viable option against good Azrael because his 2C is godlike.

Well, there are things you can do. If you're feeling gutsy, you can throw out 214B or 214D as you approach. Or you can just throw out 5C or 5B 'early' - anticipating him trying to do Gustaf; After all, he doesn't have any invulnerability on it, so it's entirely possible to beat it with spacing.

Also, if you want to jump in on him but are worried about 2C, just jump-in-barrier, so even if he throws out an anti-air, you're pretty safe. Also, his 2C has even more recovery than ours, so baiting it with a double jump can get you a big-ol jump in combo, and even if he doesn't bite, you're making him react in a much tighter window when you -do- do a jump in.

Mostly though I really feel like you're not controlling the neutral game, and you have to.

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Me getting raped by Nuzzt...

... that's the conclusion you would come to seeing these matches, but to be honest the matches were fairly even, even if i kept losing in the end. I'm more than happy of my level improvement so far, and so he was.

A few month ago he would totally own me, now I can fight back.

Anyway, i still need to be more aggressive, and throw more. At the end of the 3rd match, High Jump C just whiffed for no reason at all, fuck you Tsubaki. I was already preparing to bait the burst, but nope.

In most case I struggle in neutral game against Jin. I feel that every single of his moves are better than ours, and i'm afraid to let him get closed in, because his mixup game is too strong (and Nuzzt is a great player), and i don't know how to block him. So i make silly attempt to anti air him and stuff, but it often fails. Also his j.b is broken, plz nerf.

PS : and yes i'm using Konan color, because i'm a fanboy \o/

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2:28 I would've used 236D or 623C > j.214A(w) > 5A > 2C > 214B > 22B to keep your corner advantage.

IB Jin's 6C. You can deal with followup 6B/6D with 5A, but he can frame trap you with 236A followup however (he hasn't done this, and I suspect he won't until you do this).

I feel the pressure/mixup is lacking. It would really help if you use 5A pressure as it expands your pressure options. You seem to be relying on 5BB > 2BB > stuff (or 5BB > 6A) alot, but with 5A you can use throws (as you said) and command grabs. He doesn't seem to have a hard time IB'ing your stuff and you can prevent this by delaying some blockstrings.

10:42 Nice mash out of the Hizangeki.

Also everytime you're in the corner and you burst/CA, you stay in the corner and charge. Not sure I agree with this because you make it a little easy for Jin to get back in and apply pressure. I'd suggest dashing then charging at least that way you're out of the corner.

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I kind agree with Kiba - while Jin is mean in neutral, his mixup really isn't that scary until he gets 50 meter, at the least. You can just kinda downback a lot of stuff and anti-air him if he tries jump shenanigans. This guy loves his gimmicky resets. You can compensate for that by holding 4AB whenever you're frozen. (Can you tech with AB in this game?) That will save you from both Crush Trigger resets and air-unblockable resets because as soon as the ice breaks, you'll be barrier guarding. Though it looks like you might've figured that out later on.

If you are having trouble anti-airing him, you can mix things up by jumping to meet him with an air throw - this can catch him off guard if he's expecting you to try to 2C him (again).

Your pressure could definitely stand some work; Even just going for pressure reset after 2B would help, and 5B > 6B is something you should add as well as the jab pressure Kiba suggests.

You often seemed to do 236D or [4]6D>236D from max range, and he basically just neutral jumped you and hit you in the face. Don't do this. It's okay to throw these out 'at random' a little, but you shouldn't do it when your opponent is at the far side of the screen. 2/3rds screen at most so there's at least a chance they're -doing- something when you do it.

You got 'ducked' and your j.C whiffed a couple of times. Try to do it a little deeper - if he's going to AA you, it's gonna be with something slow, so you don't have to worry about doing it 'high' like you do on characters who can 5A AA.

Practice the ol' 5B(B) jump cancel on air hit hit confirm (okay, sorry, that sentence was a train wreck). It sucks, but it's important.

More command grabs would be good.

uh. Enough stream of watchingness from me.

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Thanks, most of your comment i've noticed them during the replay of those matches.

First, 236D > 46D, i should stop doing it. I know, but it's like my brain is doing it automatically.

I've trained afterward the 5B > jump cancel > air combo. What i can say is 5BB > j.b won't connect at all, or you have to be so fast it's impossible to hit confirm. I'll try to option select jump after a 5B at max range / oki, it should work fine.

More throw and more air throw. The thing with air throws is that I struggle to reach the good height. I often whiff it by going too high or too low, and it sux.

5B > 6B, that's something i haven't practiced tbh, i'll try it in my next matches.

Also all those reverse position combos (236B/D), i haven't done this at all. I'll try to throw more 236D when i get out of corners next time. And yes, after a burst i should dash, that's the part of being more aggressive.

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At 1:30 you used the blade super against him, and he obviously went for a Sledge B.

 

That was a great opportunity for a comeback as you had your OD ready. Just OD during the startup of the Sledge (just before it hits you), Sledge will whiff and you'll punish with a 5C counter. With the meter you had left and this small amount of charge, you could have done a OD Mugen combo of about 7-8k damage, leading to your victory. (5C > 6C > mugen > 46236D*2 > 623D j236D j214D > 214D > 22D > 6C > disto)

 

Also at 3:22 you landed a FC 3C. It's prefered to go for 3CC FC > 5C > 2CC > CT > 6CC > IAD JCC > 5C > 2C > ender. You get +800 damage for only 25 meter and the combo is a bit easier than the double IAD route. Totally worth it imo.

 

The rest is just Tagerish stuff that I personnally can't really deal with very well, so I feel your pain

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Yeah,I just learned that the banana super isn't optimal in this MU. Wasn't really thinking straight, so I'll have to keep the OD whiff combos in mind.

Really? I always though the IAD route gave more damage, but I'll be sure to use that from now on.

What I also wanted to know is, overall, was I playing this MU right? I feel like I shouldn't have been aggressive on the final round, but playing passively wasn't working so I didn't know what to do.

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Honestly i'm not the one to give some piece of advice for this matchup, as I hate it and don't play it according to the rules.

 

I like to be aggressive in this matchup. Our neutral game isn't so great we can keep Tager out of range forever, and once he's at poke range it's just a guessing game I'm really bad with. So i kinda charge in and try to mix him up, even though it's dangerous. Just don't do 6A. You'll lose 99% of the time.

 

Maybe some more enlighted Tsubakis can help you :P

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Hmm against tager it is about disrespecting his tools lol, but at the same time just being a prick in this match up.

You simply don't brawl with tager but beat him out in neutral and charges, meaning you aim to get as much charges as you can and poke him out with 5b ectera. A tager players once told me that he doesn't have much option against a 3 stock tsubaki since you could just dp his block strings and most of his option and win a slow victory with just charges and dp lol.

That is usually how you fight tager but it can be boring and slow, I don't know a gung-ho method since you're in inviting tager in rather than keeping him out since his main gAme is just getting in and knocking you down

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So what do people use as their 'cue' for counterhit hitconfirms?  I'm trying to work on this, since it seems like 5B (CH) > 6C is going to be super crucial if I ever want to accomplish anything in this game, but I generally can't hear the announcer saying 'counter', so unless I KNOW I'm getting a CH, what am I supposed to be reacting to?

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You can't confirm it.

 

@ Frost Monarch : good :)

 

22B counter leads to 6CC and a 3.5k combo. Useful against tagers who mash at the start of the round

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Really? Okay. I guess I see a lot of high level players sure seeming like they do. o.o

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You can confirm that it will hit counter by seeing the startup of your opponent move. But you can't confirm after it hits, sure not.

 

The best way to do it is to option select it anyway. It's not like 6C is unsafe on guard (even in 1.1 it's not)

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When you say "option select it" you mean "Do 5B > 6C and then react appropriately?"  Because I'm not aware of any option select that will let you confirm 5B > 6C? (Unlike doing like... 5CC > 6C where 6C will only come out on hit.)

 

Help me out here.

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by option select he means auto pilot

 

and by not unsafe he means unsafe

 

I think anyway. 

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For CH5B/5C into 6C, you either just know it's going to work, like with a punish, or you're fishing for it by trying to stick out 5B at ranges where you think the other person might hit a button.

 

6C's safe on block since you can just jump away, but just buffering 6C behind 5B is pretty risky since if the 5B hits an airborne opponent, you're going to die (especially if you mashed out 6CC), and there's always that pesky gap before 6C. 

 

It's something you have to get a feel for. Alternatively, fishing for 22B CH is a little less risky. 22B is slightly slower, but has better reach. It's like 7 frames slower total in case you whiff, although you don't have to deal with being horrible unsafe on airblock, and it's confirmable when it gets a CH.

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