[CP] Kokonoe - Oki Thread

[Loli Bacon]

The foe will realize that their character will have stopped blocking. They will hear it. Or rather, they wouldn't hear the sounds that each character makes while they block. Especially if they were trying to ib or something; there's a big fireball on them and yet their characters aren't making blocking noises, they would put two and two together (eventually) and then this -shouldn't- work again, because there's only one situation where something like this could happen, and there's a purple throw.

I didn't actually test this but I have another theory.without an audio cue (no sound) there's still the matter of hitstop, and how fast the fireball would be going over their sprite as opposed to if they were actually blocking it. It may appear unusual. If people figure it out they might start teching throw during this unusual period.

And then you have the threat of throw reject setups using the same setup. =P It's glorious.

[C0R]

In regards to the throw setup.

The exclamation marks will always appear onscreen, even if the characters don't. This makes for a tighter reject window, but still very possible.

[Loli Bacon]

In regards to the throw setup.

The exclamation marks will always appear onscreen, even if the characters don't. This makes for a tighter reject window, but still very possible.

Is that so? Retesting, because I could have sworn that the exclamations were covered by the fireball.

EDIT: Exclamation points are indeed covered up by the fireball. It's best to time the throw when the ball is rising up to best cover up the exclamation points.

Also, after combo > 22B oki in corner, 22C is a great which-way that beats most DPs. Use this if you don't have meter for blackhole.

[C0R]

They're on top.

[Loli Bacon]

They're on top.

I'm testing this as we speak, and they're being covered up by the fireball. Are you doing just 214A? because this setup is using 214214A. I was bringing this up as an example for 214214A being useful for oki.

Edit: Oki in the corner after throw (or any other similar setup) - 6B+C > 9D > 5B > 6A > [7] > j.B > jc [8] > j.B**> j.C > j.236D |> 22B > delay slightly > 22C > 22C

It's a cross up that will prevent from them DPing unless they call the crossup, but even if they do, it'll whiff to the second teleport. They can't even poke with 2A (Tested on Ragna) and you can combo after the second teleport. Beats both roll attempts and quick get-up. Only loses to delay neutral tech.

[C0R]

I'm testing this as we speak, and they're being covered up by the fireball. Are you doing just 214A? because this setup is using 214214A. I was bringing this up as an example for 214214A being useful for oki.

Edit: Oki in the corner after throw (or any other similar setup) - 6B+C > 9D > 5B > 6A > [7] > j.B > jc [8] > j.B**> j.C > j.236D |> 22B > delay slightly > 22C > 22C

It's a cross up that will prevent from them DPing unless they call the crossup, but even if they do, it'll whiff to the second teleport. They can't even poke with 2A (Tested on Ragna) and you can combo after the second teleport. Beats both roll attempts and quick get-up. Only loses to delay neutral tech.

I'm duplicating the setup and they're visible on mine. Technical bug?

[Tari]

I'm duplicating the setup and they're visible on mine. Technical bug?

I assume he's talking about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh31uqIdGQI

Took me a couple tries to get a timing where the purple exclamation marks start showing up before they get obscured, and that's about as good as it gets. Slowed down the frames around the grab, but you can slow it down further using Youtube's speed options.

Saw it happen in an online match yesterday and was pretty curious about it myself.

[greatfernman]

for the black hole 8.3k combo, the video and the posted combo are different, do they both work and do the same damage? also how am i supposed to know when i can 22b after black hole, i either do it too early and it doesn't come out or too late and the 3c doesn't hit. i've managed to do it right a few times but just by sheer luck. is there a visual cue or something i can use to know when i can 22b?

[Jetm]

for the black hole 8.3k combo, the video and the posted combo are different, do they both work and do the same damage? also how am i supposed to know when i can 22b after black hole, i either do it too early and it doesn't come out or too late and the 3c doesn't hit. i've managed to do it right a few times but just by sheer luck. is there a visual cue or something i can use to know when i can 22b?

You can 22B pretty much as soon as Koko drops from the floating casting animation. The 3C is done just after she says "Deployed."

[Loli Bacon]

I assume he's talking about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh31uqIdGQI

Took me a couple tries to get a timing where the purple exclamation marks start showing up before they get obscured, and that's about as good as it gets. Slowed down the frames around the grab, but you can slow it down further using Youtube's speed options.

Saw it happen in an online match yesterday and was pretty curious about it myself.

That's pretty close to it, actually, but could have grabbed slightly later and the grab exclamation points won't even poke out the top.

[Tari]

That's pretty close to it, actually, but could have grabbed slightly later and the grab exclamation points won't even poke out the top.

Well, yeah. I did it that way on purpose, to clearly show that the marks get obscured, but in a real situation, they shouldn't show up at all in the first place.

[Loli Bacon]

Well, yeah. I did it that way on purpose, to clearly show that the marks get obscured, but in a real situation, they shouldn't show up at all in the first place.

Oh okay good. =D Nicely done. Thank you for the video! >:3

[greatfernman]

sooo I've managed to get everything about the black hole combo down, except for one part of the combo, 6[A]>22B>5B, does the 6[A] have to hit the opponent at a certain point or something? I really haven't been able to hit the 5B after a 22B. I don't think its my timing that's wrong... :/

[Loli Bacon]

You hit with 5B while 22B is still hitting them.

[greatfernman]

i thought you place 22B, then hit with 5B before the 5B activates and hits them? I don't see how I can hit them during the 22B since they tech before 22B even activates.

[Miheko]

a lot of chars can do delay tech roll forward>dash away vs 6b/b bunker->5c set up, not sure on the list, but feel free to test. all i know is ragna

[TD]

sooo I've managed to get everything about the black hole combo down, except for one part of the combo, 6[A]>22B>5B, does the 6[A] have to hit the opponent at a certain point or something? I really haven't been able to hit the 5B after a 22B. I don't think its my timing that's wrong... :/

hold 6a till it hits automatically, or 1-2 frames before that point (6a must be max lvl, only the last 2f of charged startup). the rest has to be done quickly is all. l do this combo all the time and its not very strict.

[(SWE)KGB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvUxGv07LYk&feature=youtu.be

i was uncertain if i should post this here or in gameplay so i posted it in both if the moderators want me to remove it from gameplay i will.

if people are uncertain why this setup is so good i'll explain all the options it beats:

1#blocking(obviously)

2# all ground teching

3# jumping and airdashing out

4# almost all invincible supers

5# aiming to blue beat and then extend the old combo so that you can't reset the scaling and thereby take less damage

6# counter assault ( i guess it is a bit redundant writing it but i did not show it in the video so why not)

characters that cannot escape this setup after further testing is: Makoto, Taokaka, Mu-12, Valkenhayn, Noel,V-13, Relius, Bullet, Ragna, Kagura, Rachel and Hazama

characters i have not been able to make it work perfectly on yet: Arakune,Litchi, Carl and Platinum

characters i need to most propably modify the setup too make it work on: hakumen, jin tager

characters that seem like they will always be able too escape: bang, amane, Terumi

garaunteed to always escape with meter always:Kokonoe

[Andarel]

This should probably be merged with the Oki thread, which has several posts dedicated to how to set this up and who can escape it.

[(SWE)KGB]

this is not the same setup this one is utterly inescapable for a lot of the cast.

[Miheko]

huh, why not just sj block 22b then airdash out lol

[(SWE)KGB]

characters that cannot escape this setup after further testing is: Makoto, Taokaka, Mu-12, Valkenhayn, Noel,V-13, Relius, Bullet, Ragna, Kagura, Rachel and Hazama

characters i have not been able to make it work perfectly on yet: Arakune,Litchi, Carl and Platinum

characters i need to most propably modify the setup too make it work on: hakumen, jin tager

characters that seem like they will always be able too escape: bang, amane, Terumi

garaunteed to always escape with meter always:Kokonoe

[(SWE)KGB]

huh, why not just sj block 22b then airdash out lol

because you get pulled into the super while you're in blockstun

[(SWE)KGB]

and if you make the setup as tight as possible then they can't jump out of the super at all i did it against valk in the video and i did not do it against hazama.

the reason this is a bit tricky is because you do not want to activate the 22b and this makes it hard to balance out the timing and the spacing because of the j.c 236d against some characters like litchi.

[Miheko]

ah, that makes sense, good find