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[P4AU] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

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Anyone have this for Xbox? I want to see if I'm doing something wrong because I'm really just struggling in general with Liz. I dunno whats going on tbh

I have an Xbox copy but I don't have Live (lol). I'm planning to get Live soon though. Alternatively, if you want feedback on your play, you could always use the critique thread.

Edit: I'll get a Live card while I'm out tonight. If you're around later in the night we can try our connection.

Edit 2: Here's something I'm curious about: does proration affect freeze time? I've been trying to come up w/ combos using ghastly wail, but during longer combos, the opponent is always able to recover from the ice before I can do wail. I'm curious if this is proration at work or something else.

Edited by Elochai

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^ I might be able to tomorrow if you're willing to. I don't have a mic though so maybe I should just use the critique thread if I want advice, lol.

 

I always thought that the freeze time was fixed so I don't know. Is the second hit of the Bufu landing or is it just the initial freeze that's hitting? That might be it

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I never use hama or mudo. I don't know the combos and I don't trust myself to not immediately get DP'd, so I just save the meter for combos/mixup.

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Extremely gimmicky and destined to fail unless used in a combo.

Death combos are practical and useful. They are literally the only time Hama and mudo should be used by Liz in the entire game - well, there is one more time, not sure of it is still true but if akihiko does his fullscreen maziodyne, using hama on reaction will make all the Lightning whiff and she doesn't get mixed up.

If there is another situation like this ifor could be useful. Do remember, both stay out for 8 plus seconds, will activate where they are, and the foe has to be in hitstun where the symbol is by the time it goes off. Not a moment after it is gone. She cannot hit or block anything or they will disappear, her combos will not necessarily keep them in the same area as the symbols, and she hasn't strong mixup in the miraculous event that the for is caught blocking them. It is best to just do death routes which guarantee they hit on shadows and force normal chars to burst and potentially be baited. Yukari has it way better than Liz when it comes to lockdown supers.

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I use them and fail miserably most of the time :V. So even if you bait and block a burst, it'll disappear?

If that's the case, that makes it even harder to use.

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I use them and fail miserably most of the time :V. So even if you bait and block a burst, it'll disappear?

If that's the case, that makes it even harder to use.

I use them a lot but you shouldn't use them if the enemy has a burst. You have to recognize when it's a good time to send them out versus a normal corner combo. I like it because the enemies needs to watch when to burst. I can get a 4K with shock and poison when the enemy could have bursted but they're too preoccupied worrying about my hama combo. Shadow characters you can just go wild though.

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I've very seldomly used Hama if only because of the meter requirement. I suppose you can get it no matter what as long ad you have 50 meter and like 90% HP, but I hardly find myself in a comfortable position to OMB. This is to say that if I don't have the utmost confidence that I can pull the combo off, I won't do it.

With that being said, I still think Hama is viable. Against some characters (like Yosuke or SLab) I'll even consciously try to put myself in a position to do it. In MUs where you don't get a lot of chances to play, you should go for it imo.

@Sojoro: Hama/Mudo both go away on block, so they're really terrible outside of combos or punishes. If one could find a way to get Hama off of awakening sb agi in the corner, I could see how it'd be useful for setups if you only have 100 meter.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

Edit: I forgot that sb agi can't be super canceled in this version  :v:

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I myself haven't used Mahamaon, let alone Mudoon since I haven't quite learned and adjusted to Elizabeth's new methods of combos.

Even more awkward is my neutral game right now. I panicked and act like when I first started playing. Especially when pitted against the new characters.

Training with the Google docs combo list you guys made.

Would it be okay if I could create a bond with any of your PSN accounts as sparring partners? (Even though I play terribly as of the moment)

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If you can start a hama combo without using OMB and your opponent has a burst, sometimes it's worth doing. It depends on the player you're up against and their burst habits, but I can see this situation coming up occasionally. 

 

It's really important to know hama routes this time around. You guys should at least be able to hama off of multiple starters, with or without OMB, near the corner as it's much easier than going for midscreen ones. With midscreen hamas, you have to know the specific routes for each starter to avoid going over the SMP limit.

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I like how her counter move is like a baiting technique. Youre like "come at me bro" then youre like "lol i dont want it".

That aside, does any one kno any 3k midscreen combos? Not use to her change.

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In either awakening or regular mode, you can get 3k pretty easily if you spend 50 meter; 25 on sb garu and 25 on sb bufu. For example, two really basic combos:

 

5A>5AA>5B>2AB>236CD[8~2]>2AB>236D[8~2]>5B>5C(2)>2C>214AB>214D>2AB>2D (regular mode, does like 4k I think)

 

5B>2AB>236CD[2]>jB>jA>jC>2A>5B>5C(2)>2C>214AB>214D (awakening mode, and this is around 3.7k I think)

 

As long as the starter is decent and you don't heavily prorate the combo, you should pretty much be getting near 3k or more as long as you have the meter for it.

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Watching some of Elochai's matches and taking into account some of my own from yesterday (which were absolutely terrible, I might add), I'm starting to realize just how useless Awakened SB Zio is at fullscreen if we don't push them to the corner during it. We're down 25 SP per use just to be in relatively the same neutral situation. I think I'm going to only do it every once in a while from now on or if I have meter left over afterwards and get the corner advantage.

 

It's still fine as a punish, though.

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ok anyone have the damage values for this combo? http://youtu.be/MO-_Xwar3pQ?t=24s I was practicing it over and over in training mode and kept getting 2888 but now I did it again and got 2915. Thats the max? Trying to understand what I did differently to get that. I have it set to counter hit like in the vid btw. 

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ok anyone have the damage values for this combo? http://youtu.be/MO-_Xwar3pQ?t=24s I was practicing it over and over in training mode and kept getting 2888 but now I did it again and got 2915. Thats the max? Trying to understand what I did differently to get that. I have it set to counter hit like in the vid btw. 

It depends on how many hits of SB Garu you land on the opponent. 

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From the list given to us are Liz's buffs that good? Does Freeze have the same tech time or does the new freeze property make it so you can't run up and combo with 5B > 2AB > 236CD?

Also with faster startup will we get more Hama combos? I know they said you can only IK under certain situations so I'm a little worried about that. I love being able to IK at will o3o

I guess we'll just have to wait for the loketest tomorrow

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Also with faster startup will we get more Hama combos? I know they said you can only IK under certain situations so I'm a little worried about that. I love being able to IK at will o3o

 

I'm just going to assume Hama got nerfed for the time being until proven otherwise. They'd have to change how Hama works with Throw > Super Cancel being a thing now. Reason being, FC Throw > Mind Charge > 214AB > Hama would be a thing in the corner and maybe even midscreen...which...is kind of a problem for other people, haha.

 

Edit: Actually, CH Throw would be the problem and not just FC. We'd be able to use either without needing to OMC the throw before Mind Charging, which would let us Hama with less meter on top of not needing to OMB. Now I'm really curious as to what the requirements are for Hama...if it's still useful for dealing damage, we'd be able to Hama reliably with some more starters without using OMB.

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I don't think the buffs are really anything to write home about. We'll have a (very) slightly easier time, but that's it. None of Liz's issues are really fixed imo. Dia having a hitbox now at least makes it a corner ender I suppose.

I also don't think bufu has increased freeze time. Quicker recovery might let us use 2D routes or something outside of awakening. I'm curious as to what's possible.

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I have a bad feeling that Mahamaon is now going to only do the random startup hits except under whatever conditions they apply for the IK (maybe FC only or something? idk).

Probably no more 50SP OMB midscreen Mahamaon combos anymore.

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I have a bad feeling that Mahamaon is now going to only do the random startup hits except under whatever conditions they apply for the IK (maybe FC only or something? idk).

Probably no more 50SP OMB midscreen Mahamaon combos anymore.

 

50 sp what

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50 sp what

 

You only had to start with 50 SP if you had the right amount of health in order to do a full hama combo.

 

This joketest is blowing up twitter. Liz is apparently busted...again...not sure if she's not working or being a goddess.

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You only had to start with 50 SP if you had the right amount of health in order to do a full hama combo.

This joketest is blowing up twitter. Liz is apparently busted...again...not sure if she's not working or being a goddess.

Oh with Mind Charge God I didn't realize that lol

I was afraid of Liz getting worse because no way she isn't getting at least one hidden nerf

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This joketest is blowing up twitter. Liz is apparently busted...again...not sure if she's not working or being a goddess.

 

My heart wants to believe the latter but my body knows (from experience) that the former is more likely. I had a feeling Lizzie would lose something due to now Freeze being more mashable (to get out). I guess we can kiss using it goodbye for anything like Mahamaon or Ghastly Wail ender.

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Setora has been posting a lot of info about Liz in this loketest, and I've been trying to make sense of it with google translate. It seems like awakening SB Bufu>D Agi is no longer possible in awakening. Setora seems to think that non awakening SB Bufu is unchanged. He mentions that 1HSM can be stocked 9 times (I suppose you can do something like use 5C x 9 before having to use 2C again?). It also seems like garu has more recovery or something? Seems difficult to do poison routes w/ garu or something. He couldn't seem to figure out how to trigger Hama either.

 

A lot of this is just weird to me lol.

If anyone would care to look at the Japanese themselves and offer a better interpretation, I would be much obliged. I've marked the Japanese text w/ a spoiler tag.

 

ブフの硬直話、覚醒SBブフは明らかに減っていて最速Dアギでは運べないくらい。前作のようにディレイ掛ければ行けそう。

ハマ即死はマッチラウンドでもない
ハマ即死はフラグ4でもない
ハマ即死はムド設置中にハマ当てでもない
 
非覚醒Aブフ周りは体感SCくらいの変更しか感じない。繋がる攻撃あるの…?
Dムドオンそのまま(重要)
ハマオン、覚醒相手に三回当てても発動せず(ヤケクソ)
 
・2Cフラグがストック可能
・ハマ即時発動。即死条件分からず
 
小剣フラグ9までストック可能
覚醒SBガルの束縛時間減った?要確認
ガードSBランダマイザは当然ガーキャンが出ます(白目)
 
覚醒SBジオの補正上か受け身不能時間減少(多分後者)張り付きからの拾いが困難に
ブフ毒コンは現存。ただし上記理由からCガルまでは困難に

 

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