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[P4AU] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

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ハマ即死条件 小剣9じゃない 亡者じゃない 恐怖じゃない (複合はまだ) #P4U2エリザベスロケテ情報

 

Google translated into

 

It's not fear it's not Hama killed instantly conditions stiletto not a 9 undead (complex yet)

 
So with a grain of salt, does that mean Hama won't IK if the enemy is not feared? That makes it even more situational if true but I guess you can do hold 2C > grab. I don't think Setora still really knows how Hama works yet though

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From what I've seen of his posts, he was listing the things that didn't work when he was searching for the Hama IK conditions. These included things like Negative Penalty, Fear, OHSM 9-stock, Ghastly Wail, etc.

 

Among his most recent tweets though, one was a retweet with a claim of it consistently landing when the timer is at 10 or less. The guy hasn't yet tried seeing if the window is actually bigger (e.g. 15 ticks, etc.). Source

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I want to get excited for this, but it just seems like another gimmick being thrown our way instead of just giving her what she actually needs. It's a shame, especially when things are looking so good for Labrys and Junpei. :(

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So let me see if I got this straight: you're telling me that one of her now more "practical" supers, which is already a pain-in-the-ass to do (not to mention high risk considering what you normally have to put into it to pull off) is now being slapped with the additional condition of "You may only K.O your opponent with this if the timer is at X seconds"? Fan-frakking-tastic. What does it do upon activation when it ISN'T meeting this requirement? Give the opponent time to go grab a spot of tea and some biscuits? At least make it do some damage for crying out loud ASW. You literally cannot be under the impression that this change is a good idea. I refuse to believe a company can be this...blind.

 

Yes yes, it is all a loketest and all but come on, it is still a dumb idea.

 

Ugh, enough. No more negatives. So let's look at some positives.

 

2C stock is a good thing. It was one of the things I argued that could help her on the damage front back when I posted some personal wishes. Considering how often Lizzie relies on it to put the hurt in, being able to stock them for multiple uses is a very good welcome and I hope it stays. Admittedly I dunno how safely she can stock them but better than nothing.

 

That SB Randomizer bit had me intrigued so I punched it into Google Translate. Here's the result:

 

ガードSBランダマイザは当然ガーキャンが出ます(白目)> Guard SB Randomizer will prompt the course Gakyan (pewter)
I do not speak Google but if I were a betting man (which I am not because gambling is bad for you kids) I would wager that this means SB Randomizer can auto-correct and catch the opponent if they attempt a cross-up or something. That's about the best I can imagine. Feel free to throw in your own input here if you like.

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ガードSBランダマイザは当然ガーキャンが出ます(白目)

 

Sounds like "If you do SB Debilitate while guarding you'll get a Guard Cancel Attack (cold glare)"

 

I don't even know if this was different than before?

 

Btw, where is Setora's twitter? I'll take a look at some point.

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https://twitter.com/setora_favo

 

Also, I'd agree on the Hama change kinda being silly. Hoping that it gets changed back after this loketest.

 

I've never tried to do Randomizer while in blockstun; I'd assume you'd get hit anyway as soon as you try to hold forward. I can test that out though.

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Not sure if it's much consolation, but some clarification regarding Hama: it sounded like it was instant activation like Naoto's now, so it can be easily combo'd into. (Source.) Seemed like it didn't do anything to the opponent (aside from some hitstun) if the IK condition isn't fulfilled though. Should've mentioned it before - apologies.

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あ、やっぱりこれBコンセのSP回収量も変わってた気がするわ…

 

"B Mind Charge's SP recovery amount seems to have changed."

 

アギは…あんまり見てないなぁ。違和感は感じたけどそれがブフの硬直時間減に起因するかはよくわかんないや。 既存コンボうんぬんは通常技の補正が重くなってるらしく、今まで補正ギリギリだったやつが繋がらなくなってるのがちらほら。

 

"I don't see anything about Maragidyne. I have a bad feeling, but I don't know if it's because of Mabufudyne's recovery time reduction. Existing combos and normal move seem like they'll need big changes, currently I'm barely able to get them to chain together, and even then, only occasionally."

 

うーん、H.Hさんの記事見るに5Aが重くなってるのかなぁ…でもベス8F組なんだけどなぁ…

 

"Sigh, I saw H.H's [not sure if this was a person, but I'm guessing it was] comment about 5A being slower...It's already 8f..."

 

Really? Slowing down it even more? I mean it's good but it's not Sho's 5A...

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Seems like you gain 1.5x more SP from Invigoration in Awakening.

 

I thought this was always the case? At least it is on my PS3 version.

 

ロケテ用メモ 現在の仕様 ・SP自動回復量 →非覚醒時10秒で25(2.5/秒) / 覚醒時で37.5(3.75/秒) つまり1.5倍の関係 ・技仕様 覚醒SBガル1260(20hit) 覚醒Dガル1600(15hit) 覚醒Dアギ1335(hit8)

コンセントレイト →体力100からのSP50(or75時)のSP量 ABSBいずれも150に到達 →体力50からのSP75状態でのSP量(SP50はABから-25すればOK) A(104)B(103)SB(133)

 

"Testing Memo:

SP recovery rate: Unawakened 10s/25sp, (2.5/s) - Awakened 10s/37.5sp (3.75/s). About a 1.5x increase.

 

Awakened SB Garu: 20 hits, 1260 dmg

Awakened D Gary: 15 hits, 1600 dmg

Awakened D Agi: 8 hits, 1335 dmg

 

Mind Charge:

From 100% life, with 50 (or 75) SP, using any of A, B, or SP Mind Charge gets you to 150 SP.

From 50% life, with 75 SP (Or 50 SP with A/B Mind Charge is OK), A ->104 SP, B -> 103 SP, SB -> 133 SP"

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Wow.  So they took Hama, which was ALREADY difficult to use now, and made it barely usable at all?!  Ha.  Sowrdmaster being stackable 9 times could lead some big damage, but do why even have a way to that consistently anymore?  I thought most of the go-to 2C combos were removed going into Ultimax?  I'm trying to keep my spirits up since nothing's official, but I feel like I should just make Adachi or Naoto my main and spare myself the misery at this point.  Hopefully the buffs will be surprisingly better than they look once we see her in action though.

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Welp, you can actually hold forward in blockstun w/out being hit if the gaps between the moves aren't too large or something. I never knew about this, but it doesn't actually seem too useful to me. 

 

If bufu has less recovery, then I'm not exactly sure why Setora is having problems w/ doing combos. Perhaps agi has increased startup or something? I'd imagine that, if anything, we'd have more options now. Bufu OMC also kinda seems like it doesn't change anything. When would you even use it?

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Ah, I actually didn't catch bufu's freeze duration being shortened. The lamentation about wail ender makes sense to me now. That actually sucks. Maybe bufu>2[C] for midscreen combos?

 

Also, Damosu tweeted a bit about Liz. I can't really say what he means about 5C, but he confirms that poison routes are still a thing. Also, garu has a shorter duration apparently? 5D/jD seem buffed. Seems like the combo route that Damosu has been using is bufu>5C>2C. 

 

Thanks for your translations btw, firedraco!

 

Source:
https://twitter.com/tajimaLoV/status/535877825668976642

https://twitter.com/tajimaLoV/status/535878684624695296

https://twitter.com/tajimaLoV/status/535878252397473792

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ベス 逆ギレが目に見えて発生が早い 体感5Fぐらい早い 5Cの同技軽くなってるかも フラグストック制による調整? ブフ毒コンボは健在 ガル毒はガルの持続が減ったせいで今までとタイミング違うのでわからん ディアラハンはブフ毒の毒の部分でAディアで当てれた ダメージは下がる つづく

 

続き アギが早いかも? 気のせいかもしれない BBBが浮かせなし 足払いへのルートありだからこれに繋ぐのかな ガードjcあり ブフscは5C通常AブフSBコンセ5C2C~が繋がった 覚醒さっさとしたいときに便利 ランダマイザの発生は多分変わってない つづく

 

続き2 5D、JDのリーチ伸びた? 画面半分手前ぐらいタナトスが飛んでいく SBジオの壁張り付き時間が少なくなっててコンボがせわしない 同じコンボ入るけど端が遠いと走って何かが出来ない系 ムド、SBムドはガー不 自分が攻撃をガードしても消えないから引きこもりが出来る

 

"Reversal seems to start up much faster, feels like 5F faster. 5C seems to also be about 5F faster, maybe because of the 2C Flag Stock change? Bufu->Poison Combos still work. Garu->Poison combos seem to have been removed or maybe the timing has changed, I don't know. Can hit with A Diarahan in a Bufu->Poison combo, but the damage is lower [?]. Continued..."

 

"Continued: Agi seems faster? Maybe just my imagination. Her BBB autocombo doesn't float the enemy any more, so it seems like you can go into a sweep from it now [not sure if this is related to the BBB change]. Can guard JC [i don't understand this? maybe jC has guard point??] Bufu supercancel: You can do 5C -> A Bufu -> SB Mind Charge -> 5C -> 2C ~ combos. If you want to go straight to awakening it's very helpful. Debilitate startup [or maybe activation] doesn't seem to have changed. Continued..."

 

"Continued 2: 5D/j.5D seem to have longer reach now? Thanatos seemed to go about 1/2 a screen in distance. [if this is true, holy shit that is a buff] SB Zio wallstick got reduced. You can do the same combos but you have to be closer. Mudo/SB Mudo are "not blockable?" [i don't understand the ガー不 part] They do not go away when you block attacks so you can block people in with them."

 

Holy shit Mudo might be usable? But I don't know if you will ever be able to throw them out because of the recovery time. And those 5D buffs if I'm reading that right might be useful.

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So the Death Spells STAY if we have to block stuff now!?  Is....is it okay for me to hope again!?  Just to clarify, when you say, "Reversal starts up faster, feels like 5 frames faster," do you mean Shuffle Time or Debilitate?  This stuff.....actually seems good.  I may have to actually give ASW some props here.

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So the Death Spells STAY if we have to block stuff now!?  Is....is it okay for me to hope again!?  Just to clarify, when you say, "Reversal starts up faster, feels like 5 frames faster," do you mean Shuffle Time or Debilitate?  This stuff.....actually seems good.  I may have to actually give ASW some props here.

 

It seems like only Mudo/SB Mudo do. And for the reversal, I mean Shuffle Time.

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I've always wanted the IK spells to NOT disappear on block for what they were worth. I'm hoping that is true, everything else, I'm still on edge about.

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Hey, that's still SOMETHING positive at the end of the day!  At this point, I'm honestly desperate enough to just take whatever little nuggets and scraps they want to throw our way and call it a win.  Glad to see that the wallstick combos from SB Zio are still possible, even if they are a bit stricter in terms of timing.  I don't know if it's an incorrect way of thinking, but I prefer to use that for cover as a main priority to get in close, and I'd just pick up the combos on the way if I could as a neat little built-in bonus for myself, so I'm not TOO concerned about having to relearn some timings.  It seems like she might be a bit more stable overall now, which is really the only thing I've ever wanted for her anyway, so I'm happy if all, or even most, of this stuff stays with her in the final build.

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Did anyone know that Liz can now Stack freezes? not in the patch lol in Vanilla ultimax, if you hold the buttons for SB Bufu and let the first freeze happen, you can do a combo and use SB Bufu again without holding the buttons to let the ice wave hit like we normally use for combos and it'll freeze again.

 

Really strange because I don't think it was mentioned in this thread

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Did anyone know that Liz can now Stack freezes? not in the patch lol in Vanilla ultimax, if you hold the buttons for SB Bufu and let the first freeze happen, you can do a combo and use SB Bufu again without holding the buttons to let the ice wave hit like we normally use for combos and it'll freeze again.

 

Really strange because I don't think it was mentioned in this thread

 

Why won't you play me ;_;

 

And I don't recall her being able to do twice freeze though

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I just want to throw out there the fact that Hama getting nerfed needed to happen (if it did indeed get nerfed, if not l o l). It does't matter if it was situational, the fact that you could kill anyone from near round start as long as you had 50 SP from playing a bit of neutral with basically any A or B starters was obnoxious. The corner versions are really easy, and the midscreen ones are of average difficulty, the only difficult part being that you have to know exactly what the route is for a particular starter in order to time Hama properly...and that has more to do with memorization than execution.

 

If I used Liz more often, I'd be hitting Hamas all the time as it's honestly not hard to do it. It was even harder to do last game, and nobody even used it afaik with a few exceptions. I guess you can say it's risky because of the fact that we have to give up OMB...but that's not even true in a number of situations. Literally half, if not more, of our FC corner hits can lead to Hama without a OMB, it's just that none of our Liz players are doing the combos. Heck, some corner hits don't even need to be FC.

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