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[P4AU] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

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Is the IK not disappearing on block really that useful if they come out instantly anyways?

While I would agree with that reasoning Omnix I would hope they'd make the super a little more...useful. I always thought they were kind of like Naoto's SMP's which were basically instant kills that weren't that difficult to do but they didn't launch her into a higher tier. It's silly but it's not OP imo.

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A minor correction and with regards to things you're unsure on:

 

5Cの同技軽くなってるかも フラグストック制による調整?

"5C seems to also be about 5F faster, maybe because of the 2C Flag Stock change?"

I read this more as 5C's SMP being reduced, with 同技 being the key phrase. It's usually written out as "同技補正", but I guess Damosu was trying to save on characters to get more info in.

 

BBBが浮かせなし

足払いへのルートありだからこれに繋ぐのかな
ガードjcあり
"Her BBB autocombo doesn't float the enemy any more, so it seems like you can go into a sweep from it now [not sure if this is related to the BBB change]. Can guard JC [i don't understand this? maybe jC has guard point??]"

For the jc part, I think he is saying that it is jump cancelable on block. Not completely sure on the sweep part either, but my interpretation is that he's musing whether to combo into BBB, since there's a route going to/ending with sweep.

 

ムド、SBムドはガー不

"Mudo/SB Mudo are "not blockable?" [i don't understand the ガー不 part]"

I'm getting the same interpretation from this - when written out unblockable is usually written as ハード不能 or 不可, so it seems like a shorthand version.

 

Is the IK not disappearing on block really that useful if they come out instantly anyways?

While I would agree with that reasoning Omnix I would hope they'd make the super a little more...useful. I always thought they were kind of like Naoto's SMP's which were basically instant kills that weren't that difficult to do but they didn't launch her into a higher tier. It's silly but it's not OP imo.

I think Mudoon is still the same as it was before - not instant activation like Hama. Satoru made a few Day 1 tweets mentioning Mudo, though I don't recall their contents. It'd be good to go back and check them to confirm, if I have time.

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Forgot to note: Satoru also had a few posts summarizing his Day 1 findings.

 

Good stuff: https://twitter.com/setora_favo/status/535779657925148674

Bad stuff 1: https://twitter.com/setora_favo/status/535781225332355072

Worrisome stuff: https://twitter.com/setora_favo/status/535783907166130176

Bad stuff 2: https://twitter.com/setora_favo/status/535784326823034880

 

He seems to also mention Mudoon being unblockable, and also mentions a Randomizer command change. I think it's been changed to [4]6 (from [6]4), since there was mention that it also came out with [1]9. Also explains the complaint tweets regarding getting Guard Cancel instead.

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Randomizer being changed to [4]6 is one of the better news I heard in a while. The previous command was just too risky in my opinion since 1. it requires you to be willing to move towards your opponent, thus lowering your guard and 2. because you're going to be doing that, the opponent can easily guess what you're doing and bait it out. At least with a more conventional charge motion the opponent needs to take caution in their pressure.

 

Mamudoon being an ublockable and not disappearing on block is also very much welcome. Too bad they had to make Mahamaon suck to get it to that point but eh, can't have everything I guess. Ideally, I would rather Mahamaon do damage as a regular, instant cast super (you can even strip the K.O properties from it outright for all I care) and Mamudoon as a time-delay death trap like it always was but I doubt ASW is willing to give Lizzie something like that. By the way, blocking aside what would happen if you tech a throw while Mamudoon is out? It's not like you were "hit" but throws are unblockable moves so kinda would like people's input on it.

 

Forgot to note: Satoru also had a few posts summarizing his Day 1 findings.

 

Good stuff: https://twitter.com/setora_favo/status/535779657925148674

Bad stuff 1: https://twitter.com/setora_favo/status/535781225332355072

Worrisome stuff: https://twitter.com/setora_favo/status/535783907166130176

Bad stuff 2: https://twitter.com/setora_favo/status/535784326823034880

 

He seems to also mention Mudoon being unblockable, and also mentions a Randomizer command change. I think it's been changed to [4]6 (from [6]4), since there was mention that it also came out with [1]9. Also explains the complaint tweets regarding getting Guard Cancel instead.

 

Sweetness. Thanks for sharing. Do we have a full translated list? I'd like to mentally prepare myself for the coming storm.

 

OmnixTSC I can agree with you, but looking at the situation now, it seems like all ASW is doing is forcing the player to trade one situational instant death set-up for another, ultimately resolving nothing. Only this one isn't going to make you pool all of your resources since, AFAIK, Mamudoon cannot be combo'd into the same way Mahamaon did and because of that, you don't need to use things like OMB for it.

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^ I've used Randomizer on wakeup before so it's not too risky.

 

Still, my point stands that with a more traditional charge motion it will be much better for Lizzie. A reversal that can inflict Negative Penalty? Sign me up.

 

Also if the start up is just as had isn't Mudo still essentially useless?

 

We have no mention of Mamudoon's start-up. It could be better or the same so time will tell, but for the moment let us assume that it is the same as it is now. I am trying to figure out how a decent set-up would even work. I had the brainwave that you could super cancel off her throw into it (because of the new system change), but that's a less reliable solution. Mabufudyne is also not a good idea considering Freeze has been nerfed. Maybe if we could do it off of [C] Maragidyne it could work but that's not available. Best term solution I could think of is to use the new hitbox on Diarahan to blow the opponent away and then set it up but that requires Awakening and skirting pretty dangerously to defeat there.

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^ Yeah I understand I'm not saying this Randomizer change is not better. It's definitely better. Just something I threw out there ^^

I'm glad it's a lot more practical now so I can spam it on netplay =3=

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今日のロケテまとめ よいこと ・覚醒SBは間違いなく硬直減(最速Dアギが空中喰らいになる程度には) ・AブフがSC可能 ・ディアに攻撃判定 ・ランダマイザのコマンド変更。19でも出る ・ムドオンがガー不らしい ・JDの補正が軽く?

 

"Good points:

Awakened SB Agi recovery reduced. (D Agi [part of SB Agi??] comes out fast enough to hit enemies mid air)

You can Super Cancel A Bufu

Diarahan has an attack box now

Debilitate comes out with [4]6 ([1]9 also works)

Mamudoon doesn't seem like it can be blockable

jD recovery reduced slightly?"

 

今日のロケテまとめ よくないこと ・2Cの補正が増えた?2CBブフ〆がほとんど✕ ・フラグが9個までストック可能に ・ただし5Cは1、2段目にそれぞれ使う ・覚醒SBジオの張付受身不能時間減少 ・各種ブフが空ガ可能に ・ハマ仕様変更、即死条件不明・B連3段目が浮かない ・覚醒SBガルのヒット数と拘束時間減少

 

"Bad things:

2C recovery increased? Can't ever get 2C > B Bufu to connect.

Can stock up to 9 2C flags, but 5C uses 2, one for each hit

Awakened SB Zio doesn't wallstick for as long

All Bufus can be blocked in the air

Hama mechanics changed, how to IK with it is still unclear

BBB autocombo doesn't float the enemy anymore

Awakened SB Garu hits less and holds the enemy for less time"

 

今日のロケテまとめ 判断悩むものハマオン仕様変更により即時発動 ・割とどこからでも繫がりコンボに組み込める? ・ただし即死条件不明 ・投げSCは現状ハマくらいしかない。端ならコンセからコンボ行けるかも

 

"Troubling things:
Hamaon changed to activate instantly

Can probably insert it into many combos now?

How to IK with it is still unclear

Seems like you can only Super Cancel a throw into Hamaon

When close to the corner you might be able to combo into Mind Charge then continue into a normal combo"

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It...kind of sounds like the bad outweights the good

Which is very worrisome.

I do like the Randomizer change too. The other input was stupid, imo.

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Since we'll be stuck with pre-patch Ultimax for a while, I decided to go back to labbing Liz for a bit. I'll have all of my hama combo notes for you guys hopefully by tomorrow. I'm too tired to finish the evernote atm  :sweatdrop:

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Since we'll be stuck with pre-patch Ultimax for a while, I decided to go back to labbing Liz for a bit. I'll have all of my hama combo notes for you guys hopefully by tomorrow. I'm too tired to finish the evernote atm :sweatdrop:

I did record some Hama combos with a potato. Though most of them aren't practical lol

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I did record some Hama combos with a potato. Though most of them aren't practical lol

 

All of the ones I'll have noted will be practical, so you have that to look forward to   :v:

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Poison routes are really good, especially since the poison damage from 2D isn't scaled. Personally, I don't much go for 2D routes midscreen because I'm afraid of dropping the combo. It's better to get "guaranteed damage" from a combo you know you can complete 100% rather than chance a combo that you're unsure if you could complete or not. I suppose such a thing is arbitrary, though, if you grind out 2D routes in training mode.

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I don't know any mid-combo poison routes, but if I end in sweep, I'll throw 2D on them more often than not for some extra free damage on oki. I love me some ~800 damage (if the number hasn't changed) for no reason. 

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Thats probably what I will do. Figuring out her neutral is complicated enough. Slow speed and weird buttons. When I had a really good set against a decent player though it felt like a keep away vibe.

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