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[P4AU] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

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Thats probably what I will do. Figuring out her neutral is complicated enough. Slow speed and weird buttons. When I had a really good set against a decent player though it felt like a keep away vibe.

 

I hope I'm understanding her neutral somewhat more now. There's very obvious gaps in her spacing and zoning as well as pressure game. I still find myself doing j.B at the wrong angle sometimes. :|

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Just going to throw out there the fact that you don't want to do sweep ender if it won't knockdown. Don't auto-pilot the ender, as a knockdown is much more important than a 2AB > 2D ender that doesn't knockdown nor poison based on how they tech. This is part of the reason that I just straight up prefer the safejump enders, since you always get the knockdown into a mixup with those.

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So anyone heard anymore notable 2.0 changes? I know this is just a loketest but from what we've seen do you guys think Liz was nerfed, buffed, or we'll have to wait and see because of the changed mechanics?

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So anyone heard anymore notable 2.0 changes? I know this is just a loketest but from what we've seen do you guys think Liz was nerfed, buffed, or we'll have to wait and see because of the changed mechanics?

 

Nope, sorry Velvet Attendant brosef. I've been checking through as much as  possibly could and nothing has come up that hasn't already been posted. But overall opinion I'd say she was nerfed. Not TOO terribly though as there is definite potential in things like 2C stock and an unblockable Mamudoon. There is room for growth here, to build and expand upon but it won't be in this current loketest version.

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I cannot do that airborne j.B>j.A>j,C> 2.A>stuff combo option that frequently shows up in japanese gameplay and combo videos. I tried and j.A rarely comes out as a yellow beat combo.

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I cannot do that airborne j.B>j.A>j,C> 2.A>stuff combo option that frequently shows up in japanese gameplay and combo videos. I tried and j.A rarely comes out as a yellow beat combo.

 

IIRC, that one has very tight timing and you need to be the proper landing distance away from the ground for it to connect. I can't do it either FYI.

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IIRC, that is one has very tight timing and you need to be the proper landing distance away from the ground for it to connect. I can't do it either FYI.

It helps to delay some moves. With SB Garu usually if I use 5B and slightly delay the 2B I can do the combo string. It's much easier on a FC but I think it's ok if you just use 5AA or SB Garu[8]2 > Sweep > Garu [8]2 since it does comparable damage. You just gotta get it down in training I guess since I can do it half reliably.

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AFAIK xx>2AB>236CD[8~2]>2AB>236D[8~2]>5B>xx is the optimal route, but getting 2AB>236D is kinda finicky. The route that Yandere-13 posted in the combo thread (SB Garu [8~2]>2B>etcetc) is way easier imo and the drop-off in damage isn't too significant.

It should also be noted that jB>jA>jC has funky proration so you either have to do it off of a good starter, or really early in a combo. 

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So after a some practice I went from doing it with 5% success to 30. The combo I was trying was Awakening 5AA> 2AB>236CD>2B>jump cancel 2B> falling jA> jC> 2A>5B>2C>236AB>5b>2B>JC Ends with a little over 4000. You could probably make the ender a lot better but timing gets real tight after that.

 

Elochai, is that an awakening combo?

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Oh no, that's a non awakening combo. Admittedly I haven't put much time into awakening combos as I would've liked, but if you want to milk a little more damage out of awakening mode combos, I'm almost certain that SB Garu>2D>2A/2B>etc is the way to go. It's a tad harder than the 2B>jB>jA>jC route, but I believe you can exceed 4k for the same 50 meter you would spend on the 2B>jB>jA>jC route.

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What's a good way to time the 2D > 2A after the SB Garu anyway? I can't see Liz since the screen shifts up and it makes it hard for me to time stuff. If I just mash I can sometimes get it but then I tend to get 2A > 2A or 2A > 2B.

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AFAIK xx>2AB>236CD[8~2]>2AB>236D[8~2]>5B>xx is the optimal route, but getting 2AB>236D is kinda finicky.

 

Last I checked, 2AB > 236CD[8~2] > 2B > j.5B > 5B > 2AB > etc. was the optimal route as long as you didn't prorate your combo too much with repeats of normals.

 

 

What's a good way to time the 2D > 2A after the SB Garu anyway? I can't see Liz since the screen shifts up and it makes it hard for me to time stuff. If I just mash I can sometimes get it but then I tend to get 2A > 2A or 2A > 2B.

 

Hold upforward after the SB Garu for a brief moment before you do one of two things: 1) Count to 4 starting from the moment you first hit upforward and then hold down when you reach 4, 2) wait until the Garu expands in size or the screen shakes before you hold down or downforward on your controller.

 

After that, all you need to do is hit 2D > 2A as early as possible and the timing lines up. The moment the opponent flies into the air should be when you input 2D and then you press 2A when they fall right in front of you.

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Randomizer is really cool and all, but I don't really use it too often. I'm more inclined to use it vs some specific characters like Adachi or Kanji, but honestly the move isn't too good. There aren't too many situations where you can use it because it's a 64 motion, plus it's blockable. It loses to meaties too (at least I'm 95% sure this is the case). The negative penalty reward is kinda cool though, but you're only able to combo off of it in the corner; midscreen combo routes are only available in awakening. But hey, at least it goes into Hama if the opponent's back is facing the corner :v:.

 

Doing Randomizer immediately after a teched Shuffle Time is hilarious btw.

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My two uses for debilitate/randomizer are at round start option to catch aggressive actions and as an answer to 2D react mash (these are probably common concepts?) .

It loses/interacts poorly with a lot of things though, no inv. on startup (not even SB), loses to projectiles and burst (not sure if burst counts as a projectile), whiffs if they have invincibility, are about half a screen away, or behind you, and causes throws and certain attacks to whiff because you're airborne.

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I second its use against aggressive, far reach people at the beginning of the match (Yu, Sho, Mitsuru etc.) or people with a JUMP C. I also like using it to taunt after a match if I can.

 

"My gosh!!"

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After playing Elizabeth again, she doesn't feel too different from the first P4A for me yet. I've only noticed a few different combo routes, but I find it just as easy to make quick and cheap (annoying) comebacks with Thanatos. Although, the nerf on 5D's range is causing me to get punished a lot because I haven't got used to it...

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5d is okay once you learned how it's changed since you don't really use it like you would in vanilla as much. There are still some things in vanilla you can probably replicate with 5d but using it in the air is kind of bad and the air turn trick probably is pretty bad too. I never tried it since I only really ever use 5d to catch people fullscreen with thanatos or after charging 2c. 

 

Just a question though, how useful would you guys say 5B > dash is? I'm more accustomed to using 5C > dash but I see other JPN Elizabeth's use it all the time where on the other hand Damosu doesn't really rely on that tool. (or maybe he does and I just don't catch it somehow.) Also when using Wail as a combo ender, I see people use 2C or 2D...I'm not sure which is better honestly

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According to the wiki frame data they should be about the same, probably more preference than anything else, 5B is maybe a little more flexible in spacing since you can cancel from any hit of 5B, but 5C has back dash cancel...

And I don't use wail ender anymore (usually don't have the meter), 2C is slightly more raw damage but poison does more damage if you factor in the ticks after the combo.

That's how I read/see it anyways

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So... I got bored recently and started playing around with other characters (marg, yuki, yuka, mit, and SHO for the nobody curious) in training and kind of fell into a lot of old/bad habits with Liz . In and amongst my flailing around, I think I found something, randomizer/debilitate MIGHT work as a weird option against less "subtle" cross ups, the (assume you're facing left) not sure how to explain it without sounding stupid so bear with me: your back charge (blocking) time counts toward the new forward after they cross you up and you read it, you just input the new back and A/B/AB

sorry if this already common knowledge or wrong, but it's cold and our house is kind of poorly insulated, so I'm not sure if it's legit or my cold hands playing tricks on me

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Thats more of an accidental thing you get to take advantage of.

 

I find that people who hop over my head a lot tend to get hit by debilitate instead of a simple 5b like it was going to be.

It' not common, i just dont think its like a reliable like "hey they are going to cross me up" type deal unfortunately.

 

Then again elizabeth performs best for me when i use a series of gimmicks in odd ways. 

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That's about what I figured (oh well).

I'm a weird half way player, I understand stuff, but my choices and execution is still mediocre, so I'm never really certain if my getting X so often is something that could be built upon, or just a random thing that happens and is favorable to liz.

 

Anyone ever figure out the location test hama restriction? last time I saw anything about it the theory was it's tied to the timer (only kills on the last 10 counts or something).

Don't know if it's still a theory/been confirmed/etc. I know it's just location testing, but I like knowing what's going on with her stupid stuff

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Im not questioning their skill because im sure most of them would destroy me, but in japanese vids the opponents still seem to treat liz like: "Holy crap what is going on here?"  I see so much blocked 5C to 5D. Whenever I play, my opponent knows that they generally don't have to care about mid range or longer Thanatos stuff.

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