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[P4AU] Yosuke Gameplay Discussion

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It's one of the easier ones to bait, not having a hitbox above his waist. A lot of characters who have jC's that hold them in the air can iajC, activate it and punish, since it's punishable on activation.

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No. It's good, better than the average (imo better than Liz, Labrys, and Naoto, slightly better than Akihiko, Yukiko, and Aigis) but it's not one of the best in the game.

Using P4A versions as examples,

Narukami's does better damage, allows him to set up oki, is aerial enabled (and 4f in midair, making it one of the fastest air moves in the game), ground version is air unblockable, is Super cancelable to allow for a really stupid 50/50 (will I do Ziodyne/Cross Slash to punish your punish, or will we play the guessing game?), and oftentimes clashes with attacks if it doesn't beat them, allowing him to jA mash to avoid being punished hard. Off the top of my head, no other character's DP reasonably clashes with anything in actual gameplay, I've only seen Labrys/Shabrys/Aki do it in combo videos.

Chie's is also aerial-enabled, does dumb Chie damage, can Fatal in Power Charge, Super-cancelable to let her combo midscreen with Power Charge > stuff or Meteors, and gives her a combo + Chie vortex in the corner.

Mitsuru throws a box at you that gives her the stupidest 'Super/no Super' 50/50 in the game (Bufudyne beats jumps/frontal punishes, Myriad Arrows beats rolls to punish Bufudyne), aerial-enabled, essentially gives her about half-screen corner carry if she does CH DP> Bufu> B droit, and eats crossups, crossunders, and isn't punishable on block by Yukiko without taking considerable risk.

Yosuke's... as Mango said, does half the damage of the average, is completely blockable, cannot be Super-canceled, cannot kill, and causes 'hard' knockdown that can't be converted into a combo except in very specific circumstances (people falling into the last few active frames of the trip). You know which other DPs can't be Super-canceled? Liz's, Naoto's, and Teddie's. Which other ones can't kill? Just Liz's. Being able to draw multiple similarities between one character's DP and Elizabeth's isn't a good thing.

I think Yosuke's DP is pretty much fine as it is, tbh. It could be worse; Kanji's DP doesn't even get the opponent off of him half the time, and Labrys effectively doesn't have a reversal. But at the same time, I'd like for it to get one buff; either make it Super-cancelable, or allow it to kill. Preferably the latter, as I think all DPs should only be Super-cancelable on hit (not block).

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um, I'm pretty sure Narukami's DP can be punished 100% of the time by crossing over to his other side and Mitsuru's DP can be punished 100% of the time by punishing her before she touches the ground (None of her supers are Air OK).

This is just my opinion but yeah, Yosuke's DP is pretty good. Not the best but still among one of the better ones. Chie and Yosuke DP are pretty much equally as good but not quite as good as Narukami and Mitsuru's DP. I'd actually rate Chie's DP a little lower than Yosuke's DP because its easier to trigger her counterattack in ways that she'll just completely whiff.

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um, I'm pretty sure Narukami's DP can be punished 100% of the time by crossing over to his other side and Mitsuru's DP can be punished 100% of the time by punishing her before she touches the ground (None of her supers are Air OK).

These are true. Yu's DP is your average shoryuken which already makes it one of the best in the game but also easy as hell to punish, while Mitsuru's is even easier to punish but it can catch crossups.

I think Yosuke's DP, for its intended purpose, is pretty damn good. It ain't the best in the game by any means, but it sets itself apart by having many active frames both for its catch and the actual attack. Yosuke also loves a hard knockdown, though admittedly I do find it weird it can't kill and even though I don't play Yosuke, I think that should be fixed. Other than that his DP is just fine, I don't think it should be unblockable or anything so allowing it to kill the enemy rather than leave them at 1 HP is probably the only thing that could be changed about it without making it stupid.

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Just tossing out some facts:

Yosuke's DP, when triggered, has a 2f start up.

It's active for 47 frames. (That's a long time)

Frames 1-31 are invul.

That's why it is how it is.

Picture if Yosuke could combo/super off his DP...Every easy DP catch would be damage. I do agree with the not being about to kill thing....but when you look at frames it makes sense. If you want it to be better...it would have to be nerfed too.

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Chie can get damage off her DP on CH even in this game, why dis they think that's okay? I don't get why this character is still shafted in terms of his DP activation.

Even if you make chie's dp whiff, it's extremely hard to get a solid punish since she recovers so quickly, first hit is unblockable too for no reason aaaaah. I just don't understand their idea of the dp balance.

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Chie can get damage off her DP on CH even in this game, why dis they think that's okay? I don't get why this character is still shafted in terms of his DP activation.

Even if you make chie's dp whiff, it's extremely hard to get a solid punish since she recovers so quickly, first hit is unblockable too for no reason aaaaah. I just don't understand their idea of the dp balance.

Chie can only combo off of it in the corner iirc.

It is hard to punish, yes, but this DP only stays active for 3F. Sure, you can mash, but everytime you mash, you get that portion of blue HP which can lead to your death if you're not careful.

I'm not really trying to defend it though, I think this DP is pretty good all things considered. Just pointing out some things.

Also, the first hit needs to be blocked low, it isn't unblockable.

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Yosuke has the best dp in the game because he trips you up and smiles about it. He doesn't care about extra damage off his dp, his goal is to make a fool out of you.

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It looks like it moves faster because it tracks the other person. I always thought people overlook using SB moonsaults. Barely see it being used

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Does anyone know if anything from P4A's Sukukaja is still there? Most players only seem to use Sukukaja for combos so I never see it used in neutral anymore, minus the 5A teleport reset stuff. For example, I know 2C doesn't launch anymore.

I'd particularly like to know if his air moves still cancel into each other (like Moonsault > j.AB) and if j.2C/D > special still works? ... Or did they give that to Shadow Yosuke...

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Does anyone know if anything from P4A's Sukukaja is still there? Most players only seem to use Sukukaja for combos so I never see it used in neutral anymore, minus the 5A teleport reset stuff. For example, I know 2C doesn't launch anymore.

I'd particularly like to know if his air moves still cancel into each other (like Moonsault > j.AB) and if j.2C/D > special still works? ... Or did they give that to Shadow Yosuke...

I only know about the change on 2C but all these are probably still in. It's no surprise players don't use it in neutral since the duration is much shorter now, they need to get that hit fast to make it worth it.

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So, in P4U2, His actions (4 air actions instead of 3, invisible dash, faster normals) are generally the same. However, 2C doesn't launch them backwards anymore, Kunai becomes air action cancelable (according to Ringo), V Slasher seems to either reset air actions or adds some.

Edit: Updated post #1 with all the changes that have been gathered so far (and got rid of the rumored changes)

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So, in P4U2, His actions (4 air actions instead of 3, invisible dash, faster normals) are generally the same. However, 2C doesn't launch them backwards anymore, Kunai becomes air action cancelable (according to Ringo), V Slasher seems to either reset air actions or adds some.

Edit: Updated post #1 with all the changes that have been gathered so far (and got rid of the rumored changes)

You forgot to put that SB Garudyne tracks the oponent no matter where he/she is.

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Also, some other bits of news:

If you watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxrjqD6Sdf0 closely, you see Yosuke do things like:

236A > Air 236AB > Air 236A~A > Air 236C > j2C

236AB > Air 236A~A x2> Air 236C > j2C

If you count, that's 4 air actions outside of Sukukaja. How is this being done? Apparently Moonsault have their own usage counter now. No matter what, Yosuke can do 3 moonsaults (4 in Sukukaja) while only j2C/D, Kunai and V Slasher count as air actions (which he still has 3 of).

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Also, some other bits of news:

If you watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxrjqD6Sdf0 closely, you see Yosuke do things like:

236A > Air 236AB > Air 236A~A > Air 236C > j2C

236AB > Air 236A~A x2> Air 236C > j2C

If you count, that's 4 air actions outside of Sukukaja. How is this being done? Apparently Moonsault have their own usage counter now. No matter what, Yosuke can do 3 moonsaults (4 in Sukukaja) while only j2C/D, Kunai and V Slasher count as air actions (which he still has 3 of).

That's absolutely amazing, I did noticed something was off with his air actions but that explains it. Loving all his changes so far.

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While DL was down, I decided to prepare the wiki page (spoilers: it's not up yet) but I documented almost every change I had to make.

 

Enjoy.

 

Yosuke P4U2 Frame data changes

*AL = After Landing

 

5B is 0 on block now

5B is dash cancelable

Sweep has a P1 of 0

jA start up increased to 7 frames (Sukukaja jA remains at 5)

Can backdash jB. (But loses that option and gains forward dash cancel in Suku)

Sukukaja jBB start up decreased to 8 frames

jAB (formerly j2B) recovery increased to 30 from 25

 

5D gains Backdash and dash cancel in Sukukaja

5D P1 increased to 300 from 0 and P2 increased to 200 from 100

5DD P1 increased to 300 from 0 and P2 increased to 200 from 100

5DD active frames changed to 3,3,4 (4,4,5 before)

jC damage changed to 400, 200 (2 hits now) (formerly 500)

jC attack level lowered to 3 from 4

jC P1 increased to 300 from 200

Sukukaja  jC start up increased to 18 from 16

 

Ground throw P1 changed to 0, P2 is changed to 900, 100

Air throw P1 changed to 0, P2 is changed to 1200, 100

 

Dodge [Taunt] (DP) active frames increased to 49 from 47

Dodge [Trip] start up is now 1 frame (2), Active for 28 frames (22), recovery decreased to 6 (22), Invul frame 1-17

Dodge [Trip] P1 increased to 900 from 500

 

Dash Spring A start up changed to 11 frames?

Dash Spring A damage changed to 300, 150 from 500, 250

Dash Spring A P1 changed to 600 from 0

Dash Spring A P2 changed to 200 from 800

Dash Spring A recovery changed to 39 + 9 After Landing from 31 + 16 After Landing

Dash Spring A static diff (frame advantage) changed to -19 from -11

Dash Spring A invul changed to 4-19 Feet from 6-21 Feet

 

Dash Spring B start up changed to 14 frames?

Dash Spring B damage changed to 400,200 from 500, 250

Dash Spring B P1 changed to 600 from 0

Dash Spring B P2 changed to 200 from 800

Dash Spring B recovery changed to 33 + 9 After Landing from 31 + 16 After Landing

Dash Spring B static diff (frame advantage) changed to -13 from -21

Dash Spring B invul changed to 7-22 Feet from 13-31 Feet


 

SB Dash Spring start up changed to 17 frames from 19

SB Dash Spring damage changed to 500,250 from 600, 300

SB Dash Spring P1 changed to 600 from 300

SB Dash Spring P2 changed to 200 from 100

SB Dash Spring SMP changed to 800 from 50

SB Dash Spring static diff (frame advantage) changed to -35 from -14

SB Dash Spring invul changed to 10-29 Projectile from 13-31 Projectile

 

All Kunai damage changed to 70, 40x11 from 134, 67x19

All Kunai P1 changed to 200, 0 from 400

All Kunai P2 changed to 0,50 from 100

All Kunai SMP changed to 0 from 1000

A Kunai recovery changed to 19 After Landing from 23 AL

B Kunai recovery changed to 19 After Landing from 27 AL

SB Kunai damage changed to 70, 40x11 from 134, 67x19

 

A and B Moonsault recovery changed to 9 After Landing from 16 and 14 respectively

SB Moonsault damage changed to 1300 from 1500, P2 changed to 600 from 400, Start up changed to 25 from 28, recovery changed to 11 AL from 14 AL

 

A Crescent Slash damage change to 900 from 1400

B Crescent Slash damage change to 1100 from 1400

Both version P2 changed to 600 from 400, recovery changed to 14 AL from 21 AL. Sukukaja version now has 600 SMP

 

D Mirage Slash (j2D) active frames changed to 9 from 8

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GUYMAM, I GET IT, MY HERO WEARS A FEDORA, STOP RUBBING IT IN.

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Yosuke P4AU 1.10 changes

 

  • 2C - Reduced blockstun
  • D Sukukaja - Increased recovery (confirmed by various JP Yosuke players that C Tent > D Suku,  j2C > D Suku and OMB > D Suku no longer work)
  • SB Suku - Decreased recovery
  • SB V-Slasher - Faster start up and the damage reduction has been loosened

Sorry that I haven't been on the ball like before, FFXIV has taken over my life for the moment.

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