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[P4AU] Mitsuru Kirijo Gameplay Discussion

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SB droit > OMC > auto combo

 

Yea, this sounds terrible, lol, but I guess you gotta work with what you have.

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Yea, this sounds terrible, lol, but I guess you gotta work with what you have.

Not terrible. If it will win you the game, do it. Plus SB droit > OMC > 5A is good for catching mashers since SB droit is negative on block. So you can use it to continue pressure if you have the meter to do so.

 

If the opponent is crouching when you hit with SB droit (preferably droit A) you can do a much better combo depending on the distance. SB droit > 5AA > 5B > sweep > droit B. If they're in the corner you would want to do droit A > 5AA > 5B > sweep > SB droit > 2 > bufula D > 5 > sweep > droit B. SB droit has a crazy high SMP, so you can't do two SB droits in one combo.

 

The correct distance to connect a crouching hit confirm droit A or SB droit is if only the tip of Mitsuru's rapier hits. If it does, she can do droit A/SB > 5AA. Since Mitsuru can't really control droit A, it's a bit situational. SB droit is doable, but with the SMP on it, she can't get crazy damage off the combo. Possible if you do something like SB droit > 5AA > 5B > sweep > droit B > OMC > 6 > 2 > bufula C > 4 > droit B.

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Not terrible. If it will win you the game, do it. Plus SB droit > OMC > 5A is good for catching mashers since SB droit is negative on block. So you can use it to continue pressure if you have the meter to do so.

 

If the opponent is crouching when you hit with SB droit (preferably droit A) you can do a much better combo depending on the distance. SB droit > 5AA > 5B > sweep > droit B. If they're in the corner you would want to do droit A > 5AA > 5B > sweep > SB droit > 2 > bufula D > 5 > sweep > droit B. SB droit has a crazy high SMP, so you can't do two SB droits in one combo.

 

The correct distance to connect a crouching hit confirm droit A or SB droit is if only the tip of Mitsuru's rapier hits. If it does, she can do droit A/SB > 5AA. Since Mitsuru can't really control droit A, it's a bit situational. SB droit is doable, but with the SMP on it, she can't get crazy damage off the combo. Possible if you do something like SB droit > 5AA > 5B > sweep > droit B > OMC > 6 > 2 > bufula C > 4 > droit B.

 

Well, yea, anything isn't terrible if you win the game.  It's terrible for what you get out of it compared to the resources used, which for Mitsuru, outside of winning the game, is true.  

 

I wasn't aware you could get a full combo off of SB droit outside of corner though if they were crouching, that's good to know.  

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yes, 5B feint is in the game. Hold B until Mitsuru lands from her hop and input the next attack.

 

You can cancel into:

-another 5B (can not feint this one)

-Sweep / Sweep feint

-All out attack

-Throw

-Coup Droit

-Tentarafoo

-5D

 

there might be more, but that's all i've seen/experienced so far

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Okay so it has been a little over a month for me playing Mitsuru and I'm fairly pleased with the results. Combo wise I finally got used to charges and my execution has improve a lot since when I first start started. However, the thing I'm noticing as I look at saved replays are my block strings. I always seem to do 5AA > 5B into something else.Eventually that get too pretictable and i start getting called out. So what are some other block strings that are useful? Also, when is it good to place out 2C and what block strings are good to make sure it makes contact with the opponent once it's out? One more question I have is the use of j.C and Tentarafoo. I find myself never using these two moves in a match never. 

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Use 2C to either reset or if they're knocked down or frozen in the corner. 2C is the worst reset of all of Mitsuru's resets because of its slower start-up. Sweep feint is better, dash cancel is better than that. You can get 2C to land if it's already out and you put the opponent in 5C. 2C is also plenty useful in neutral against slow characters like Kanji or Labrys. Unlike P4A, Mitsuru can easily escape 5C if she wants. Pretty useful if you use S.Mitsuru. j.C is specifically good against Kanji because the j.C will break against his DP, and you'll land and get a free FC punish. j.C is also somewhat useful in the corner if the opponent jumps and you want to cover their space. Tentarafoo is probably only useful as a full screen punish against a zoner doing something stupid. Tentarafoo has some use after like Myriad Arrows midscreen to keep them from jumping or they're expecting a IAD j.B. Though most times I just do droit A into a throw.

 

Blockstrings:

 

5A

5AA

5AAA

5A > sweep

5A > sweep > hop > j.B

5A > sweep feint

5A > sweep feint > throw

5A > sweep feint > 5A

5A > sweep feint > back dash > counter hit 5A > sweep

5A > 5C

5A > 5C > 5 > 2C

5A > 5C > 5 > 2B > sweep

5A > 5C > back dash > 5C

5A > 5C > dash cancel > throw

5A > 5C > dash cancel > back dash > counter hit 5A > sweep

5A > 5C > dash cancel > 5

5A > 2B > 5B > sweep

5A > 5 > 2B > sweep

5AA > 5 > dash cancel > 5AA > sweep feint > back dash > counter hit 5A > sweep

5AA > 5 > 5C > back dash > 5C > dash cancel > back dash > counter hit 5A > sweep

5AA > 5 > 2B > j.B > OMC > j. > 5AA > 5B > sweep

5AA > 5 > dash cancel > 5A > 2B > j.B > OMC > j. > 5AA > 5B > sweep

5AA > 5 > 5C > dash cancel > 5AA > sweep feint > j.B > OMC > j. > 5AA > 5B > sweep

5AA > 5 > dash cancel > 5A > 5C > back dash > 5C > dash cancel > 5AA > sweep feint > throw

 

There are plenty more variants. You can even delay 5A > 5AA to catch the opponent mashing a button. Or back dash 5A if they like to mash DP. Staggering pressure is quite important in Mitsuru's gameplan. With 5C back dashes, it's possible for the opponent to roll past the second 5C if the spacing is off. If you do 5C close to max range, they'll roll into the second 5C after back dash and you'll get a hefty combo. 5A > 5B > 2B > sweep works quite often. More so if you have meter. The opponent thinks you're going for j.B after the 2B, instead go for sweep and get a much stronger combo. For the j.B combos within the blockstring, jump in the 8 direction, it's pretty easy for Mitsuru to overshoot her jump and mess up the j.B. Dash cancel > back dash is a throw bait, works a decent amount, you can win a lot of games with this strategy alone. Tossing in sweep feint > back dash is another way. If they're knocked down in the corner and you run up on them, back dash > 5A, works a lot. People are scared of Mitsuru's throw so take advantage of that. 5 has a lot of blockstun, so doing dash cancel afterwards makes you plus, because of that 5 > dash cancel > throw will whiff. Just delay the throw a bit, or just go for a bait. Up to you. Also people don't DP often against Mitsuru if she's at near max 5A range, so you can get away with a lot of these blockstrings. You'll still need to condition your opponent. Doing raw throws is also useful because you can make your opponent wary of throws and set up baits.

 

Some things you should keep in mind. Don't do dash > jump over > quick turn > j.. It will work against low-level opponents. But against good players, they will air throw you since Mitsuru's j.B is insanely slow and can get beaten at close range. If you like to go for something like 5AA > sweep, if the opponent Instant Blocks the sweep, you can get punished with a counter hit. Against opponents with a quick 5A, Yosuke or Yu for instance, if you do 5AAAA or end a combo with droit A, they can mash 5A to beat out your 5A. Your best option is to back dash if you do such a combo (you can do the same if droit A is blocked). Try not to do any point blank 5As. Opponents are more inclined to DP here because Mitsuru's blockstrings have gaps (though a sweep feint might be able to save you). Another thing, max range j.B is bad, you're super negative on block and you can't do anything else until you land. If doing max range j.B make sure you at least have meter to OMC. The best option to use j.B are jump-ins since Mitsuru will be low enough to the ground to follow-up with 5A. If you have at least 25 meter and get a crouching confirm in or near the corner, 9 times out of 10 you want to SB droit to pick up the combo. If you're using S.Mitsuru and the opponent will die if you use meter for bufudyne or Myriad, do it. It's better to use the meter and win, than save it and possibly lose ( a lot of Labrys players do this all the friggin time).

 

At any rate, all this stuff is mostly intermediate level. You'll be better than most netplayers doing it. Just don't get predictable.

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Whoa I truly appreciate the time you took to write all this up for me! This is far beyond what I expected for an answer. All of this is very useful information that is making a lot more sense as I explore my options. Again thank you for all this! Oh and the tad bit about kanji's DP was also helpful. I thought it was impossible to bait if you touched him period.

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Whoa I truly appreciate the time you took to write all this up for me! This is far beyond what I expected for an answer. All of this is very useful information that is making a lot more sense as I explore my options. Again thank you for all this! Oh and the tad bit about kanji's DP was also helpful. I thought it was impossible to bait if you touched him period.

It's possible to OMC the hit. A lot of Mitsurus do 236236A > OMC > block, if they want to escape Kanji mix-up. When the 236236A hits Kanji's DP after the super flash, OMC immediately and you won't get shocked and Kanji will still be in recovery.

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It's possible to OMC the hit. A lot of Mitsurus do 236236A > OMC > block, if they want to escape Kanji mix-up. When the 236236A hits Kanji's DP after the super flash, OMC immediately and you won't get shocked and Kanji will still be in recovery.

 

236236A > OMC on wakeup? I have never seen that done before. Is that just for kanji or is that a legit reversal option?

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It should also work for both Labryses and possibly Rise. This is because their DPs are guardpoint rather than straight invul. It's pretty much 100 meter to guarantee safety, but you should be able to get a Fatal Counter off it (whether via 5B or punishing Rise's Fatal Recovery).

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236236A > OMC on wakeup? I have never seen that done before. Is that just for kanji or is that a legit reversal option?

 

Legit for getting out of the corner unless someone reads it. Myriad has a faster start-up than bufudyne so it's often the better reversal. OMC to make it safe. It's probably more effective than a blocked DP into bufudyne.

It should also work for both Labryses and possibly Rise. This is because their DPs are guardpoint rather than straight invul. It's pretty much 100 meter to guarantee safety, but you should be able to get a Fatal Counter off it (whether via 5B or punishing Rise's Fatal Recovery).

 

It can work against those two, but Rise and Labrys don't have the unblockables that Kanji has. The reason you do it is because you don't want to play the guessing game, but sometimes Kanji will DP on your wake-up, so this is just an option to beat that. Also, it's probably unlikely that Rise or Labrys will do a DP on your wake-up since they can't get as much advantage as Kanji can on hit.

 

Though, if Kanji does the slow command throw, he can invul through Myriad. So you'll need to know what the Kanji player does. The Kanjis I play against don't do it too often on an opponent because players tend to jump more now, but it's something to look out for.

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Ok I'll definitely try this out next time I fight him or anybody if I'm in a punch in the corner. Kanji is one of those matchup I really hate because I feel like I have to take more risk than usual.

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If you do wakeup Myriad Arrows, Kanji should be able to do either of his supers on reaction to beat it, or his SB command grab. Not saying that it's a bad option, but he does have things to beat it. If he knows you're likely to do it, he might roll to make it whiff as well.

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Ok I'll definitely try this out next time I fight him or anybody if I'm in a punch in the corner. Kanji is one of those matchup I really hate because I feel like I have to take more risk than usual.

You're thinking about the match-up wrong. Mitsuru doesn't have to take much risk vs Kanji, it's the other way around. She dominates neutral in that match-up. Kanji has to work insanely hard to even get in a favorable position. Patience is a virtue if you want to defeat Kanji.

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You're thinking about the match-up wrong. Mitsuru doesn't have to take much risk vs Kanji, it's the other way around. She dominates neutral in that match-up. Kanji has to work insanely hard to even get in a favorable position. Patience is a virtue if you want to defeat Kanji.

 

Really? I usually just get DP'ed out of everything since max range dose not matter vs him. After that its time to play the guessing game. I guess that was before I knew that I was not affected by him if the persona only touched him. That will definitely change my game plan around a bit.

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Kanji is the one who carries nearly all of the risk in that matchup. The majority of Kanji's you will fight online, especially if they use DP as much as you're implying, will get blown up if you just harass them with max range 5A pressure, occasionally stopping for a few seconds to see what he does. Chances are all of the bad Kanjis will just be mashing on DP and 214D (the slow, invul command grab), both of which are punishable and have fatal recovery.

 

Just be a little more passive during your pressure and let him kill himself. Good luck.

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Really? I usually just get DP'ed out of everything since max range dose not matter vs him. After that its time to play the guessing game. I guess that was before I knew that I was not affected by him if the persona only touched him. That will definitely change my game plan around a bit.

 

The way it works is that Kanji can't do anything to stop Mitsuru's gameplan. At the start of a round, Mitsuru will more than likely back dash away, to create space (though you shouldn't do this all the time. 5A at the start is a good way to be less predictable). Now Kanji's options are to either jump in and do j.B or j.C or do his lightning stuff/Persona charge. If he does the jump things, you can easily do 2D to catch him, in which case he will block. Now it's important to read what he does when he lands after blocking, since he has no air options here, and you're at the initiative. For instance, he can do DP when he lands, catching your 5A or he can do 214D which accomplishes the same thing. If you're not sure if he's going to do either of those options, back step is perhaps your safest option, because if he does DP or 214D he will eat a FC. This is part of conditioning your opponent. If he's afraid to DP or 214D, you can do stuff like 5A when he lands or throw, which gives you even more options. Things like these will take practice for sure. Lord Knight said it a few pages back, understanding the skill level of your opponent quickly is critical.

 

If Kanji decides to do the lightning thing or the charge, Mitsuru's option is droit B or 5D. After Kanji does a burst, she can safely do SB Tentarafoo as well to catch him doing either option. 5D is the greedy option, but it's slower so he can catch you with the lightning if you're late (though you can catch him if he's late). Droit B does less damage, but its quicker and has great corner carry and you do want Kanji in the corner.

 

Now then, how do you space Kanji if he has a DP? Easy answer, 5C and j.C. 5C works in the same way that j.C does, it will cause persona break, but Kanji will be in recovery for his DP, allowing you to get a FC. It's important to space 5C properly. For instance, if you're too close Kanji can do 214D and grab you. If you do 5C as a meaty, on his wake-up, he doesn't have this option, but he also won't be able to DP either so you can't really get the punish you want. Another important thing to note, which I mentioned with blockstrings, is 5C > back dash > 5C, which destroys Kanji's DP and roll options, however he can do something like sweep because there's a decent gab between back dash and 5C. So if he does that, you can do 5B for instance. Just goes to show you can't rely on 5C > back dash > 5C to win against good opponents. This is all apart of conditioning so that you can space with 5A.

 

On the defensive end, your options are block, DP, and jump. Blocking gets beat by 214C, DP gets beat by 214D, jump gets beat by 5A (the alternative being Mitsuru's DP beats 5A and 214C. Jump beats 214D). If you have 100 meter, you can eliminate the 214C and 5A options, making your guessing game more favorable. But if he does 214D, you'll lose 50 meter and eat a hefty combo. One thing you should refrain from at all times is trying to anti-air him with 2B. 2D is slower, but the better option. Kanji's j.C will more than likely get a fatal and it's really difficult to anti-air his j.C.Though I guess you can think of it like this. If he's high in the air and approaching, he will do j.C (punish this when he lands with droit A/SB or 5A), and if he's low and does a jump-in he will do j.B, which is a bit faster and a little easier to anti-air. If Kanji does the low-jump in route, he also risks j.C being anti-air'd, since Mitsuru's 2B can actually beat him there sometimes. And if you're not sure which option he's going to do, doing j.A is also an option to keep space.

 

Either way, this is a bit on the technical side of things and probably belongs in the Mitsuru v Kanji thread. I hope it helps. Also, I can attest to these methods above, because whenever I play without a care and haphazardly because I don't account for the Kanji player's skill level, I lose most of the time. However, if I'm patient, I win the majority.

 

Edit: Basically what Rath said, but longer! :)

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 Will we be waiting for P4U2 1.2/2.0 to continue updating the combo thread, or shall we get to that right now?

Because I've been working on ''general/optimal combo routes''. 
Basically, this means that these are routes you can always follow depending on certain situations.

An example would be that from a fatal counterhit 5A you could always do XXX combo with an optional XXX ender if you started from a 5A, but if you start with 5AA you can do the same combo but have to cut short ''here'' with XXX ender.

 

It's nothing too fantastic, but it'll give you an idea of what you can do in pretty much any midscreen/corner/whatever situation depending on starter/whatever you picked up from. 
I've added weaker more easy to hitconfirm off combo routes as well, for convenience. 

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*B版とSB版『クー・ドロア』の発生が早くなりました。

*しゃがみBをタメた場合、ヒット時に相手を浮かせるようになりました。

*『テンタラフー』の発生が早くなり、連続技で繋がるようになりました。

http://www.arcsystemworks.jp/p4u2/important.html

 

I can't read it all, but:

  • B and SB Coup Droit faster startup
  • [2B] launches opponent on ground hit
  • Tentarafoo faster startup, can shoot multiple tetarafoos in a row? (unsure) 
  • Tentarafoo has faster start-up, can be comboed from some moves

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[2B] launches on ground hit is quite nice. Not sure how often it will happen though.

 

SB droit having faster start-up would mean in the realm of 6F start-up or less. I can't imagine it being less than 6F. That's just insane. Chances are with that B droit having faster start-up, it will have a drawback somewhere else. I like the current speed personally, but if faster speed means less frame advantage, not too happy.

 

Tentarafoo might have a use? Would be better if it like hit airborne opponents, but multiple uses might be interesting.

 

@shtkn In the news and gameplay thread they translated Tentarafoo as "Tentarafoo has faster start-up, can be comboed from some moves." If it's comboable that could be pretty useful.

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