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LegendaryRath

[P4AU] Mitsuru Kirijo Gameplay Discussion

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Other top class neutral chars should give her a run for a money, which honestly isn't a lot of characters. The top tiers should be fine dealing with her stuff and can do their own gameplan. Yosuke should be the most problematic because she has a lot of great angles on her range attacks but can't pin him down. Yu is just as well rounded as she is. Most other characters get their game disrupted by her since her zoning, rushdown and defense are all very good

Besides them I think Marie's presents could give her a little worry but mitsuru can punish Marie's recovery on the ground easy. Aigis maybe because she can zip around. That's it

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[imput] [Damage] [sP Cost] [sP Gain] [burst]

 

5AAAA 1378 20
5AA> 5B> 5C(6)> [4]6A 1748 13
(CH)5A> 2AB> [4]6B 1699 12
(FC)5AA> 5B> 2AB> [4]6B 2364 16
5AAAA> 236236B 2518 50 20
5AA> 5B> 5C(6)> [4]6A> 236236B 2888 50 13
(CH)5A> 2AB> [4]6A> OMC> 5AA> 2B> 2DD> 5> 2AB> [4]6B 3132 50 12
(CH)5A> 2AB> OMC> 2> 5> 2AB> [2]8C> 5> AoA~D 3678 50 9
(FC)5AA> 5B> 2AB> OMC> 2> 5> 5C> dc 2> 5> 2AB> [2]8C> 2AB> [4]6B 4047 50 13
(FC)5A> 2AB> OMC> 2> 5> 5C> dc 2> 5> 2AB> [2]8C> 5> 2AB> [4]6B 4054 50 9
5AA> [4]6A> OMC> 2AB> OMC> 2> 5> 2AB> [2]8C> 5> 2AB> [4]6B 3626 100 11
 
 
I should make note to everyone that Mitsuru's A coup> OMC> 2AB is a lot more lenient and easier to do that in the previous versions.
Once again, this isn't required in any way, but if you have a 100 meter, you can convert a neutral 5A hit into around 3.5k, which is quite a lot for Mitsuru in neutral. It never hurts to have this as a backhand option if you ever do have meter to spare or it will kill them this way, especially if it's practical now, compared to how it was in P4A. 

Hope this helps. More is coming soon.

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So who gives her the most trouble in this game?

 

Yosuke - he's too fast, gets knockdown more often than you, and has 5F 5A so when you do autocombo he can mash and beat your 5A/trade.

Narukami - Similar playstyle to Mitsuru with a better neutral game, and doesn't worry about whiffing as much as Mitsuru. Same 5A problem (but his has less range).

Aigis - top class damage, mixup is extremely powerful, Mitsuru 2B got nerfed so she's hard to anti-air, and tri-jump going over all your ground attacks make it a rough matchup... but it's probably even anyways.

Minazuki - even though the match is even, his reward for hits is much higher than yours on average. You can't mess up against him.

 

S.Lab might be worse too, I don't know how to feel about the DLC characters yet.

 

EDIT: Aren't a couple of those 5A combos CH/FC?

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Yosuke - he's too fast, gets knockdown more often than you, and has 5F 5A so when you do autocombo he can mash and beat your 5A/trade.

Narukami - Similar playstyle to Mitsuru with a better neutral game, and doesn't worry about whiffing as much as Mitsuru. Same 5A problem (but his has less range).

Aigis - top class damage, mixup is extremely powerful, Mitsuru 2B got nerfed so she's hard to anti-air, and tri-jump going over all your ground attacks make it a rough matchup... but it's probably even anyways.

Minazuki - even though the match is even, his reward for hits is much higher than yours on average. You can't mess up against him.

 

S.Lab might be worse too, I don't know how to feel about the DLC characters yet.

 

EDIT: Aren't a couple of those 5A combos CH/FC?

I forgot to add that. I had color use for that in the document file I use.

I probably edited RIGHT after you saw it, because I edited it almost instantly.

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Despite how long you can delay 5AA I have yet to see anybody hit a button there yet lol, but that damage is nuts xD

Here's the non-awakening throw combo with the charged kick... some variation of this is in a JP Video but I just did it here :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfaHWokboXY&feature=youtu.be

 

 

did they do something to this combo on the patch for Marie? I can't seem to get it to work, specially the 5 into AoA.

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How exactly do the 'Bufula Loops' work?

Also, can Tentarafoo be used on crumpling characters for some kind of reset?

Bufula loops? You mean D Bufula into C Bufula into D Bufula?

Surely, that's something you can do, but I see no reason to actually do so in 99% of the cases. Maybe theoretically you could use it in a very small amount of situations for slightly more damage, but I'm not even sure about that.

Tentarafoo cannot be used for anything outside of neutral. 0% chaining possibilities, sadly. I've tried all. It's been made specifically so that it only works on standing neutral opponents. Spin state doesn't work either.

It would be an amazing combo finisher, but sadly it's not so.

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did they do something to this combo on the patch for Marie? I can't seem to get it to work, specially the 5 into AoA.

Try recording it so it works on another character and play it back on Marie. It's one of the most finicky combos because of bouncing on the SB Bufula and height/landing timing and it might actually work on some of the characters that the timing I used on Narukami didn't work on with very minor adjustments.

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Try recording it so it works on another character and play it back on Marie. It's one of the most finicky combos because of bouncing on the SB Bufula and height/landing timing and it might actually work on some of the characters that the timing I used on Narukami didn't work on with very minor adjustments.

 

Oh sorry I meant, I'm trying that same throw combo and AoA is not comboing after 5 for some reason, that's why I thought they changed some properties of something in that patch.

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Oh sorry I meant, I'm trying that same throw combo and AoA is not comboing after 5 for some reason, that's why I thought they changed some properties of something in that patch.

so long as you are doing a fully held 5B and the opponent has landed on the ground (still frozen), the AOA will connect.

 

Are you having trouble with the initial hit of the AOA connecting, or getting the 18 hits + fatal at the end?

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a bit of both, but it's weird because I tried it on Narukami, and no matter what, this corner combo: throw 5AA 2 C bufula 5 AoA etc. the AoA would not combo afer 5 no matter how many times I tried it.

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I setup a combo thread. The main post is a big project for me. It's coming along well but still needs more work. Give me a week or two to wrap it up. I definitely plan to have it completed before the NA release.

Currently I have a section for BNBs + combo theory. A larger section including combos for all starters will come later.

I also haven't included damage values, meter gain, or video examples for anything yet. Once again, wait a week or two :)

 

For now, feel free to continue posting combos in the gameplay thread, right here. In the future, make sure the combo thread is only used for posting combos, not discussion. I'll do my best to keep it updated and make sure it's a good place for information.

 

Let me know if there are any mistakes. This is a work in progress after all, and always will be. I did my best to give explanations for anything and everything, so there will be as little confusion regarding how a combo is to be performed as possible. Video examples being added down the road should only help with this. Gonna stop rambling now. been at this for way too long and my brain is fried.

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One thing, you said you could add a A/B Myriad Arrows after A Coup. But you can add a or SB Myriad Arrows after a midscreen B Coup too, in a lot of the cases. Which does more damage than ending with C Bufudyne after a sweep.

 

Also, in the combo topic, you often mention AoA~D into B Coup as a combo finisher. I myself have yet to make AoA~D a ''regular'' thing. I think 5> 2AB> B Coup is safer in general. Less chance of flucking, and minimal damage difference. Though at a few times the difference goes up to around 200~300. And it makes you gain quite a lot more meter. Thus I'm kind of at an impase. I'm not sure whether to try and use the AoA more frequently outside of Mabufudyne/Myriad Arrows combos or stick to this. I can do AoA quite consistently now most of the time, but it is tiresome and might at times make you ''lose'' the rhythm of the match in a certain sense. 
My point being, should we really add this as a general thing in that combo list for the ''new'' players looking for combos? Or just add 5> 2AB> B Coup regardless. I think we should at least mention it. 
AND I think I should start mashing out AoA even more, until it's the most natural thing to do, lol. The damage+ Meter gain difference is quite big after all.
Midscreen I find AoA~D to be less effective as an ender, as it's not the most optimal thing to keep pressure with. A good thing to do midscreen is dash cancel it, then do an IAD. It might just be me, but it seems to be faster when done after this specific cancel. OR, set up a D Bufula and use it, do a tentarafoo (safer due to the Bufula) instead and afterwards use it. Or just not use it at all in both cases and use it as a sort of ''you'd better lay down'' feint to keep pressure going. Either way, I'm still trying to make out for myself whether to make AoA a more regular thing or not. Anyone have any tips on this for me? Is it really better to use it or not? I appreciate any input regarding the matter.

Also, not sure if this will help, but I revised some of the combos I had posted earlier to be more univeral and maybe gain some more damage here and there.
Instead of looking at what I had a had not changed, I'll just repost the ones that stayed the same as well. 

 

All 5A Starters for Midscreen.
(Input) 

                 (Damage)
                 (Cost)

                 (Gain) - pre+post meter use. i.e. You start with the amount of meter you have to use. (Excluding 150 meter combos. Those include post use only.)

5AAAA

1378

 

20

 

 

5AA> 5B> 5C(6)> [4]6A

1748

 

13

 

 

(CH) 5A> 2AB> [4]6B

1699

 

12

 

 

(FC) 5AA> 5B> 2AB> [4]6B

2364

 

16

 

 

5AAAA> 236236B

2518

50

20

 

 

5AA> 5B> 5C(6)> [4]6A> 236236B

2888

50

13

 

 

(CH) 5A> 2AB> [4]6A> OMC> 5AA> 2B> 2DD> 5> 2AB> [4]6B

3132

50

12

 

 

(CH) 5A> 2AB> OMC> 2> 5> 2AB> [2]8C> 5> 2AB> [4]6B

3523

50

8

 

 

(FC) 5A> 2AB> OMC> 2> 5> 5C> dc 5> 2> [2]8D> 5> 2AB> [4]6B

4009

50

9

 

 

(FC) 5AA> 5B> 2AB> OMC> 2> 5> 5C> dc 5> 2> [2]8D> 5> 2AB> [4]6B

4190

50

13

 

 

5AA> 5B> 5C(6)> [4]6A> OMC> 2AB> OMC> 2> [2]8D> 5> 2AB> [4]6B

3416

100

15

 

 

5AA> [4]6A> OMC> 2AB> OMC> 2> 5> 2AB> [2]8C> 5> 2AB> [4]6B

3626

100

11

 

 

(CH) 5A> 2AB> [4]6A> OMC> 5AA> 2B> 2DD> 5> 2AB> [4]6B> 236236A

3841

100

12

 

 

(CH) 5A> 2AB> OMC> 2> 5> 2AB> [2]8C> 5> 2AB> [4]6B> 236236A

4232

100

8

 

 

(FC) 5AA> 5B> 2AB> OMC> 2> 5> 5C> dc 5> 2> [2]8D> 5> 236236B

4715

100

12

 

 

(FC) 5A> 2AB> OMC> 2> 5> 5C> dc 5> 2> [2]8D> 5> 2AB> [4]6B> 236236A

4718

100

9

 

 

5AA> 5B> 5C(6)> [4]6A> OMC> 2AB> OMC> 2> [2]8D> 5> 2AB> [4]6B> 236236A

4125

150

1

 

 

5AA> [4]6A> OMC> 2AB> OMC> 2> 5> 2AB> [2]8C> 2AB> [4]6B> 236236A

4149

150

2

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I don't like the idea of double posting every combo just to add a super at the end. It's better if the people reading through any list of combos just know when /where they can add a super for extra damage.

 

I'll probably use some of what you posted once I add the section for specific starters. Thanks :)

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AoA~D can work as a different way to set up "safe" oki rather than going for B droit > njB (which I think is a safe jump... haven't bothered testing it yet tbh).

(corner) AoA~D (fatal) iad back 2C 5A is often used by YMST to keep up a bit of pressure while still being relatively safe

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AoA~D can work as a different way to set up "safe" oki rather than going for B droit > njB (which I think is a safe jump... haven't bothered testing it yet tbh).

(corner) AoA~D (fatal) iad back 2C 5A is often used by YMST to keep up a bit of pressure while still being relatively safe

Thanks for the info. 

And Rath, some of the combos don't end with supers at their ''regular'' time, if you want them to do more damage.

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Thanks for the info. 

And Rath, some of the combos don't end with supers at their ''regular'' time, if you want them to do more damage.

Yup. Longer combos ending with AOA~D will drop too soon after B Coup, so you just use D Bufudyne after the AOA instead

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So what normally comes after charged B in her corner combo? B Droit into 2A 2B 2D charged A....

I've just been using C into C Bufula, but I'm not really sure what to do after that.

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So what normally comes after charged B in her corner combo? B Droit into 2A 2B 2D charged A....

I've just been using C into C Bufula, but I'm not really sure what to do after that.

 

I'm not entirely sure what exactly you are takling about, but Mitsuru generally can't chain from her B Coup in most cases. In case you can, I suggest doing something along this line:

(CH) 2AB> B Coup> 2A> 2B> 2D> 5> D Bufula> 5> AoA~D

(Air hit) B Coup> 2A> 2B> 2D> 5> D Bufula> 5> AoA~D> B Coup

 

And normally after a SB Coup you do something along this line:

 

(Crouching hit) 5AA> 5B> 2AB> SB Coup> 2> 5> D Bufula> 5> AoA~D

2AB> SB Coup> 2> 5> D Bufula> 5> AoA~D> B Coup

 

Other air hit options:

 

(Air hit) 5AAA> 2B> 2D> 5> D Bufula> 5> AoA~D

(air hit) 5AA> 2B> 2D> 5> D  Bufula> 5> AoA~D> B Coup

 

Generally, the idea is something like that after an air hit. You can end with Bufudyne after those, remember that.

 

Those are what her BnBs look like, which work from most situations, with minor tweaking here and there depending on the proration. 

For example, you can't do SB Coup> 2> 5 when you started with a j.B into 5AA> 5B> 2AB. The opponent will tech before the 5 can hit. In those cases just simply omit the 5.

And not always can you add a B Coup after a AoA~D. If you are uncertain whether you can or not, I'd suggest just not using it in general, but doing a backdash Marin Karin after the AoA~D for example. This will put you in a better positioning favor, after all. Especially since the untech time on B Coup has been largely reduced, it's not as positive as it was before anymore. It beats doing a safe jump j.B most of the time. Though if you do AoA~D> B Coup you'll, if you did the B Coup fast enough/instantly after the AoA~D, have enough time to do a backdash during the opponent's recovery and to then continue pressuring from a safe distance.

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In training mode, getting a Myriad Arrows and a fully charged kick works on frozen characters. I'm guessing that won't work in real matches?

The only place where a fully charged Myriad Arrows kick single handedly by the freeze time of the Myriad Arrows works is in Golden Arena Mode, if you have the ability Niflheim set on Mitsuru. Other than that it'll never work unless you have something that will keep the opponent frozen set. The options for those are a SB Bufula or Mabufudyne.

 

Have you checked to make sure the combo hit counter doesn't turn yellow? If it does, it's not a ''real'' combo. In this case, tweak with the dummy options to make sure they do recover in every single case they can. IIRC the ''Break out of Ice'' option is the second lowest or so option. If it is not that one, it is one of the lower ones for sure.

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I don't like the idea of double posting every combo just to add a super at the end. It's better if the people reading through any list of combos just know when /where they can add a super for extra damage.

 

I'll probably use some of what you posted once I add the section for specific starters. Thanks :)

You can just make a subsection adding which super can be done from which normal. This way it's included but doesn't have to take up too much space, and the new players understand. Just a thought.

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Another suggestion for you Rath, consider specifying the position, such as midscreen or corner. Also since the combo list will eventually grow bigger, you might want to break the box down a bit more. Like having crouching confirms have it's own box.

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