[P4AU] SHO Minazuki - Combo Thread

[Tong]

Does j.c j.dp 236236A ->another 236236A only work in fatal counter routes?

 

Yes, and AoA~D FC.

[Tong]

AoA~C midscreen->corner/P1 starting position stuff

 

150 Meter

AoA~C>j.B(1)> j.C (JC)> j.C> j.236A> delay OMC> j.B(1)> 5B> 2B> Sweep> 236B> B+D(1)> 236236B> 236236A, Damage: 5728

 

150 Meter+OMB

AoA~C> j.C> OMB> (dash) 2C> 5C> 5B> 2B> Sweep> 236B~B (JC)> j.C> delay B+D> 236236A x3, Damage: 7071

[SuperSaiyanSollux]

Nevermind Figured it out,dont know how to delete posts

[AigisPlayer]

This is sho thread so everything here is(or at least should be) for him. Minazuki stuff goes to his thread

"You pissed me off!" Sho taimu 2014

[SuperSaiyanSollux]

Okay So Minazuki is the Persona Version and Sho is the Normal Version

[AigisPlayer]

Yes and yes

"You pissed me off!" Sho taimu 2014

[SuperSaiyanSollux]

another small question, at the end of the Basic BnB what does the B~A mean? is that optional?

[AigisPlayer]

For sho's rekkas, after the initial 236b or 214b you just need to push a button for the next part, so your inputs look like 236B~B~C > 214a~a. It's the end of his rekkas so no it's not optional unless you want to straight up drop the combo

"You pissed me off!" Sho taimu 2014

[o Nereus o]

I'm trying to do the FC 2C (Harder version) and i for the life of me cannot seem to get the 5C > hop j.C  route down. Is there a video so i can watch it?

[AigisPlayer]

orz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjT7zFod9tI

[RentalBlackout]

I'm trying to do the FC 2C (Harder version) and i for the life of me cannot seem to get the 5C > hop j.C  route down. Is there a video so i can watch it?

 

You kinda wanna get them up to a certain height with the 236A/B~B, the higher the better, hence the slight delay on ~B. It's a lot easier on some characters than on other characters. You have to hop j.C after 5C pretty quickly, and that's one other part that's pretty important.

 

The video AigisPlayer posted is great reference.

 

1.1 doesn't differ that much(if at all), but if you wanted a similar combo for 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMP0mJFWOyk

[R4KID]

 

You kinda wanna get them up to a certain height with the 236A/B~B, the higher the better, hence the slight delay on ~B. It's a lot easier on some characters than on other characters. You have to hop j.C after 5C pretty quickly, and that's one other part that's pretty important.

 

The video AigisPlayer posted is great reference.

 

1.1 doesn't differ that much(if at all), but if you wanted a similar combo for 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMP0mJFWOyk

Couldn't you have added a 5C > 5B (one hit) > 2B > 2AB instead of 5B (one hit) > 2B > 2AB for more damage.

[Tong]

5C would be too slow for that, since untechable time would be severely decreased by that point.

[AigisPlayer]

Kara-Helmbreaker (a.k.a TK j.236AB)
What is it?: Sho's kara-helmbreaker is similar to yosuke's glide. He can use it to get a really low TK safejump/overhead on wakeup or off of certain moves like 2C to throw in a really low overhead. The difference between kara helmbreaker and normal one is that Sho will stop wherever he is for the kara whereas normal one he would follow his current motion. More likely to hit people since they don't get the notice of you launching in the air for an overhead.

How to do it?: Kara helmbreaker uses C teleport (or highspeed movement) and quickly cancels into j.236AB. for example, if you're already in the air the command looks like j.236C~AB. If done at the right time, sho stops wherever he is to do his overhead. The time is specific, it can't be done too quick or too late because you'll either end up with super jump air turn or TK C teleport with no overhead. 
for a TK kara helmbreaker, the input will look like 2369 > C~AB. 
Other places you can do kara helmbreaker: 2C > j.236C~AB | hop > j.B > j.236C~AB | j.2C > j.236C~AB

[Tong]

Kara-Helmbreaker (a.k.a TK j.236AB)

What is it?: Sho's kara-helmbreaker is similar to yosuke's glide. He can use it to get a really low TK safejump/overhead on wakeup or off of certain moves like 2C to throw in a really low overhead. The difference between kara helmbreaker and normal one is that Sho will stop wherever he is for the kara whereas normal one he would follow his current motion. More likely to hit people since they don't get the notice of you launching in the air for an overhead.

How to do it?: Kara helmbreaker uses C teleport (or highspeed movement) and quickly cancels into j.236AB. for example, if you're already in the air the command looks like j.236C~AB. If done at the right time, sho stops wherever he is to do his overhead. The time is specific, it can't be done too quick or too late because you'll either end up with super jump air turn or TK C teleport with no overhead. 

for a TK kara helmbreaker, the input will look like 2369 > C~AB. 

Other places you can do kara helmbreaker: 2C > j.236C~AB | hop > j.B > j.236C~AB | j.2C > j.236C~AB

So this is how the japanese players have been doing the low SB Metsugas eh, good stuff @AigisPlayer!

Also it's worth mentioning that D teleport can be used as well, and as a pad player, using the D buttons is easier for me (I map D to R1). Plus it avoids accidental OMC's, since C~AB can make that happen.

Are there any videos about this technique? I think it's worth making a quick video guide since it's gonna be useful in 2.0 as well, and I have some free time

 

Haha he can do some pretty silly stuff with it, like lowest possible j.A> SB Metsuga.

It's also completely safe against reversals.

[AigisPlayer]

I dont think there's a video guide tutorial of it, had to learn it through someone else. Never tried it using d teleport

"You pissed me off!" Sho taimu 2014

[Doonpa]

Damn, kara cancel air teleport into SB Helmbreaker is being mentioned now? lol

 

Anyway, this is how the lowest possible j.236AB is done: Input 2369C then quickly hit A+B. What happens is that you'll get j.236AB to come out without carrying any of your jump momentum and you'll do an extremely low to the ground overhead . Heres a list of things you can use j.236C~AB for:

 

Safe jumping: This move has 0f of recovery, so when timed properly you can safe jump almost any reversal in the game except for things that are almost instantly active or they are some kind of catch-based counter move (i.e Minazuki's counter super). Any knockdown that you get and have 25% stocked can lead to a safe, virtually unreactable meaty overhead set up if done properly.

 

Pressure: As said before, 0f recovery means you can block or move immediately when you land from this attack. Since you are so low to the ground when you recover, if your opponent blocks this attack, you are at a pretty hefty amount of frame advantage. So its a good way to keep the pressure on while throwing in a quick overhead into the mix of your pressure strings. For example, Sho can do short hop j.B into j.236C~AB to keep the pressure going safely or do something like 4AA j.236C~AB. Since this move is so fast as well, you can often times catch your opponent trying to mash by resetting pressure off stuff like 5B by letting it recover and then going into j.236C~AB.

 

Mix up: Somewhat of an extension to what you can do in pressure, except you do it more with the intention of hitting your opponent for blocking in correctly. Off standard safe jump setups off of something like sweep for example, you can essentially do j.B into either j.236C~AB or land 2A for a safe jump 50/50. This can be done for low IADs as well to add an extra overhead before you land, etc. This can also be done off j.2C. You can do something like cross the opponent up with j.2C and then do j.236C~AB to catch them blocking low in anticipation of you just landing and continuing pressure.

 

All in all, this technique is super super useful and it really helps solidify your game. This also helps open up other forms of mix up and offense such as tk SB teleport as a cross up or for setting up tk SB teleport 2A when your opponent thinks the SB helmbreaker is coming instead. 

[Tong]

I can make a video tutorial explaining this technique, but I'll need some legit mixup examples using it. I havent played in ages and I'm pretty outdated about Sho's mixup potential, so I'll need this forum's help.

[AigisPlayer]

Other than the previously mentioned mixup uses (thanks @doonpa (´･ω･`)), i can only think of like using it off IAD > j.B. want to just make a straight up list of places for kara helmbreaker?

"You pissed me off!" Sho taimu 2014

[o Nereus o]

Kara-Helmbreaker (a.k.a TK j.236AB)

What is it?: Sho's kara-helmbreaker is similar to yosuke's glide. He can use it to get a really low TK safejump/overhead on wakeup or off of certain moves like 2C to throw in a really low overhead. The difference between kara helmbreaker and normal one is that Sho will stop wherever he is for the kara whereas normal one he would follow his current motion. More likely to hit people since they don't get the notice of you launching in the air for an overhead.

How to do it?: Kara helmbreaker uses C teleport (or highspeed movement) and quickly cancels into j.236AB. for example, if you're already in the air the command looks like j.236C~AB. If done at the right time, sho stops wherever he is to do his overhead. The time is specific, it can't be done too quick or too late because you'll either end up with super jump air turn or TK C teleport with no overhead. 

for a TK kara helmbreaker, the input will look like 2369 > C~AB. 

Other places you can do kara helmbreaker: 2C > j.236C~AB | hop > j.B > j.236C~AB | j.2C > j.236C~AB

i can do this after a normal (2C, j.B.. etc.) but i can't do it alone. does this work alone or just after those type of normals?

[AigisPlayer]

Yes you should be able to just do for example TK helmbreaker ( 2369C~AB )

"You pissed me off!" Sho taimu 2014

[Tong]

Other than the previously mentioned mixup uses (thanks @doonpa (´･ω･`)), i can only think of like using it off IAD > j.B. want to just make a straight up list of places for kara helmbreaker?

"You pissed me off!" Sho taimu 2014

Yea that should do. Places where it's better than regular TK SB Metsuga and where regular air SB Metsuga can't be applied.

And again, I strongly recommend using the D button for this.

[RentalBlackout]

i can do this after a normal (2C, j.B.. etc.) but i can't do it alone. does this work alone or just after those type of normals?

Off of normals the timing is somewhat different. For raw kara helmbreaker, think of it as TKing air teleport, but cancelling it into Helmbreaker as soon as you teleport/"slide input" into A+B.

[The Owl says O RLY]

So as long as we're talking about kara helmbreaker, let's discuss possible combos off of SB Destructive Fang fatal counters, yes? That seems like an excellent thing to discuss in this combo thread.

 

First, the sad news - as far as I can tell, you just can't get the 5C -> hc j. C route to work off helmbreaker FC. I know, it's a tragedy and a miscarriage of justice. A moment of silence, please.

 

...

 

Done? Good. Now the good news - Sho has a couple of cool routes he can get off if he does get the fatal. Let's take a look.

 

j. 236AB FC -> 5AA -> 5B -> 2B -> 5C -> 236B -> B -> C -> 236A -> A -> A

2861 damage (-23)

 

j. 236AB FC -> 66 2B -> 5B -> 5C -> 236B -> B -> C -> 236A -> A -> A

2892 damage (-23)

 

j. 236AB FC -> 66 2B -> 5C -> 5B -> 2AB -> 236B -> B -> C -> 214A -> A

2922 damage (-23)

 

These are essentially just BnBs with the helmbreaker as the starter. Those microdashes are actually incredibly lenient, thanks to how long the opponent reels when they get fatal'd and SB Destructive Fang's total lack of recovery. But we can do better (and more importantly, more stylish).

 

j. 236AB FC -> 66 2B -> 5B -> 5C -> 236B -> B -> jc j. B -> 5C -> 214A -> A

2989 damage (-23)

 

You need a slight delay before the j. B or else the opponent will be left too high to hit with 5C before they can tech out. As far as I can determine this is the optimized universal 25 meter combo for SB helmbreaker. 

 

j. 236AB FC -> 66 2B -> 5B -> 5C -> 236B -> B -> jc j. B -> 5C -> 214214B

3853 (requires 75 meter and awakening) (-73) 

 

Adding a Moon Smasher makes everything better, right? SB the super for 4053 total damage.

 

j. 236AB FC -> 66 2B -> 5B -> 5C -> 236B -> B -> jc j. B -> j. BD -> 236236A -> 236236A

4573 (requires 125 meter, corner only) (-123)

 

Similar in concept to the above. The j. BD can be finicky on smaller characters; during my testing it worked great on Narukami but whiffed on Teddie half the time. You can sub a B Moon Smasher instead of the first super, but it's the same damage as the above combo and less consistent. (Side note for all these 125 meter combos - you can make the last 236236A a 236236AB for 200 extra damage at the cost of 25 extra meter.)

 

"But strange Sho man, what about the jump loop?" I hear you ask. Well fear not! I got you covered.

 

j. 236AB FC -> 66 2B -> 5B -> 5C -> jc j. B -> j. C (1) -> 66 5B -> 5C -> 236B -> B -> C -> 236A -> A -> A

3195 damage (-22)

 

The big problem with the jump loop is that you just run out of hitstun proration. As far as I can tell this is the optimized 25 meter jump loop. You can cancel the last 236A into DP into either super; B Blazing Moon Barrage gives 4013 total damage and if you're in the corner you can tack on an A Blazing Moon Barrage for 5013 total, B Moon Smasher gives 4293 damage.

 

j. 236AB FC -> 66 2B -> 5B -> 5C -> jc j. B -> j. C (1) -> 66 5B -> 5C -> jc j. B -> j. C (1) -> 66 5B -> 2AB -> 236A -> BD (1) -> 236236B -> 236236A

5018 (requires 125 meter, corner only)

 

Okay, this one is purely for Sho-ing off. That double jump loop looks cool, and the corner carry is great. If you're somehow not in the corner by the end, either change 236236B to a Moon Smasher or leave off the 236236A.

 

And finally, I leave you with an enigma:

 

j. 236AB FC -> 66 2AB -> 236B -> B -> jc j. C -> 5C -> 2B -> 2AB -> 236A -> A -> A

3221 damage

 

In all my testing I manged to connect this all of once, in the corner, against Narukami. Every other time the first hit of 2B would hit them too high for the second hit to connect and drag them down into the sweep. I know it works because I hit it once, but I can't figure out how to make it more consistent. Which is a damn shame, because it's more damaging than any other 25 meter route I've found.

[Tong]

Hmm the kara cancel can be used to make SB Metsuga> 2A possible.

Example: Sweep> 236B~B~[C/D~AB]> 2A> 5B(1)> 5C> 2B> Sweep etc

Not really a big thing for Sho, but it's worth mentioning.