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Coinage

Order-Sol vs. Sol

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I'm not sure why no one really bothered adding this so I will :yaaay:. I tested a couple of his move against Sol and I found that 6P is really useful in this match depending what he does. 6P vs. Sol DQB-K - If timed right, Sol should hit however Order Sol Upper-Invinciblity blocks and counters. I suggest using 6P as soon Sol touches the wall. 6P vs. Gun Flame - Tad-bit harder with the timing and your distance. I like to do 6P as soon I see Sol's animation doing the Gun Flame. This will help go through the move and ready your next whatever you wanna do. Fafnir vs. Grand Viper - Works pretty well when you see it coming. I believe this will give a free combo. Please post if you stuff to say as well.

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k If your opponent has 25% tension, don't use 6P except for meaty. Riot Stomp is FRCable and then it goes into GV or sweep, if you're standing there doing 6P you'll just look silly. Best thing I found is to chase him to the wall and SV him before he gets the chance to land. He'll be able to tech but his options from there on are limited. 6P vs GF is pretty much same story, though less likely to happen. Considering your own defensive and offensive capabilities in air its better to just jump over it by jumping backward and then doublejumping forward. If he chases for 5K2H into combo you should be able to smack him on the head. So these were just a few scenarios, to play against Sol, the primary thing you'll have to keep in mind is that he has more range and has relatively high priority for his range, so you'll often going to be blocking(if you don't you eat 200 damage, so you will). At this point he'll be hacking away at you and you just guarding his shite taking every damage opportunity he leaves for you and he'll probably realize that unless he breaks your guard he's going to lose. So what he has to do is get in and play a normal vs throw game to break your guard. Here there is two choices: you play his game by guarding and jumping/backdashing accordingly or you enforce your own game, which means making him guess whether you'll SV or not. The choice of which you're doing doesn't really matter imo, for both applies you either guessed right and he's not comboing you for 200+ damage(and yes, with the latest improvements WT can reach 200) or you guessed wrong and you're going to eat the damage. I'll add (for good measure) that getting your SV blocked isn't necessarily the end of things and the difference of getting a CH or a normal hit in that situation is next to 0(you're eating a lot of damage either way). Why not rush him down? Well, you can try and you will die, CH VV blocks the air attacks, GV reaches far enough to prevent any ground attacks and CH 5H will zone you succesfully. All these options go to over 200 damage on you, and yes, VV and GV are unsafe, that does not put them out of business; do not give Sol a reason to use them, its a mixup where the rewards for you are too low. If you want to play aggressive (or not give up any ground unnecessarily) you can keep the distance short by running in and FD breaking accordingly to what you expect, jump FD is good too. To attack him successfully you'll have to keep in mind that his set of normals are dedicated to either attacking ground or attacking air, he cannot do both properly at the same time. Usually you can do a j.P whiff without him hitting you out of it(so actually you're going to do j.PP and have a single whiff or confirm a double into aircombo, but that's a minor detail). The reason for you to jump is because you would be expecting a ground attack, if you were wrong, this would be a good time to press the faultless guard buttons(or eat a lot of pain). If you were right, you got a wee bit of time to figure out what he whiffed, if it was 2D, 5H, 2S or 5S(f) you can attack with j.H and you will hit, if he did 5S(s), 2K, 2P or 5P you need to use j.S-P to hit, against the punches even that could be to late and you'd have to FD instead, if you don't FD you'll probably eat a VV that takes half your life away. If you expect him to be attacking air, which means 5K, 2H or VV in some extreme cases, you can usually sweep, which tends to CH. VV is a different case of course, just guard it if you see it coming. If you didn't see it coming he usually can't convert it anyways, unless he has 50% tension. If you want ground to ground, you need to be in 2S range, 2S is the only thing really that works properly and is hard to VV. 5S(f) is pretty much a no go since Sol's 5H beats it clean, 5S©, 5K, 2K and 5P are too hard to hit, 5H is just asking for trouble in ways you don't want to imagine. The only other normal that takes priority over 2S is 2P when you're in range to do it, because its whiff recovery and block recovery are far lower than 2S's. So if he backdashes, you aren't fucked as badly as with 2S and you might even keep your offense. Okizeme: When you are knocked down, there's several attacks from Sol that you will have to guard. If he jumps he will try to air attack you in such a way that he'll guard any of your reversals, oldest trick in the book and Sol can apply it really well, so you'll have to guard all air attacks from Sol. The other attacks are his punches, they recover in less than 12 frames and that means when they would hit meaty SV will not hit them. When you get oki against him, you're kinda in a situation where he doesn't have to do anything really quickly. You can't read a VV coming from him because he's taking a nap for a few frames and because it hits in 5 frames 2P and 5P won't recovery in time to guard it. What you do have that does counter VV is jump attacks like he does on you, you can setup fuzzy guard, but its generally useless because any smart player impact guards on their wakeup(keep it in mind for when your opponent tries it on you). The other thing you got is meaty GB. Keep in mind that Sol players have every reason to buffer a VV after guarding a GB so running in isn't the smartest thing to do there(though sometimes can bring home good rewards).

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I see what you guys are saying, but what would be good ways to escape during his attack then? I wonder if IAD and then use BRP would work. i figure and would give more distants and of coruse dont use it every time. About the VV, can't you SV it. Well I also think If you were going to jump that j.p would be a good way to block your opponents onslaught as well.

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You can SV VV and you will beat it, unless he launches it several frames later than you do: he has less invincibility on VV than you do on SV. To get out of his attack strings, watch for holes, that's where his mixup will start, if his mixup fails, you get out.

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The safest options for oki imo would be GB, running jump over -> backdash, and a max range or close to max range 2HS. 6P is good too if you can time it consistently, but you can't really get much off it unless you're deep in the corner, and you can't really get much off of SV so the first 3 are obviously better options. Either that or bait it and 5HS :yaaay:

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2H and rj backdash can get you VVed, especially because they are so nicely telegraphed(and yeah, VV hits at that range). SV is not usable for offense, so don't use it on someone's wakeup, even if he VVs... 5H only works on if he does the kick extension after it. Oh and when baiting it, be sure to sit outside throw range XD

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I consistently clash with VV when using a far-spaced 2HS. And in the case of 5H not working, you can just use 5S into a ground combo.

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It works wonders when you clash, since you can just tap 5HS when you do (since they'll more than likely attempt to do something after clashing too) and commence the rape EDIT: And to make it easy, the way I do it (or try to, it's kind of hard to run up fast enough and get the spacing lol), is to position the attack so that the VERY tip will connect. I don't know if any closer will be safe because I've never attempted to get closer on purpose.

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wait if he VV, would it be better to to BHB, or even a charge burst. oh yea if you SV and he sees it coming and then VV. could you AC and have at least 25% tension, FRC it right guys:8/:

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wait if he VV, would it be better to to BHB, or even a charge burst.

oh yea if you SV and he sees it coming and then VV. could you AC and have at least 25% tension, FRC it right guys:8/:

no don't use charge burst

that move is terrible only time i would recommend that is from a long distanced overdrive (which the should be doing anyway)

only case ive been able to use charge burst and use it effectively is Raou's super from a good distance away

also don't use BHB on wakeup either

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wait if he VV, would it be better to to BHB, or even a charge burst.

oh yea if you SV and he sees it coming and then VV. could you AC and have at least 25% tension, FRC it right guys:8/:

Your best option if the dp is blocked or whiffed, is to CH 5HS him if he does the followup, or wait for him to fall and combo him while he's recovering. Anything else just isn't worth it when compared to those two options.

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Throwing the 5HS to punish VV comes with mixed results. The reward for you punishing the 214K follow-up (an aerial CH 5HS) is amazing, but if he doesn't follow-up then the best you can get off the non-CH hit confirm is a SJI combo, which is a tad bit difficult in that situation. Personally, I tend to wait until he lands and punish with a grounded combo. Y'know, the ones that don't prorate from the first hit.

And, for the record, VV and GV are incredibly unsafe. If you bait either of them, and you're working with either Lvl2+ or 25% Tension, you get ~200 damage on the punish. GV should never be an issue once you get a solid punish on one; VV is another story due to its overall effective use and properties (aka Sols will spam it since it's invincible).

Some general tips (I hate this match-up; it's not even that hard once you get into the mindgame and punish him a few times, but it's still annoying to ALWAYS bait VV and never get the fun setups):

- If he does Gun Flame, you need to jump over it. You can throw out an early-ish j.HS and CH for free. You just sail right over it and hit him. If Sol doesn't FRC, this is free damage for you.

- If he does Riot Stomp outside of the corner (lol), you get a mediocre punish with a forward jumping j.P into combo. 6P is too risky with little reward, GB resets the situation and puts you at neutral ground, SV works but the reward is low (unless Lvl3), and a properly timed 2D will actually keep you right next to him with frame advantage.

- Corner Riot Stomp gets the 6P treatment; CH 6P that close is a free 5HS combo.

- Sol's 5S(f), 5HS (to an extent), and 2D all trump your ground game, and Sol's anti-airs are always solid. As was stated, you'll spend most of this fight from a defensive standpoint. Thankfully, Sol's actual mix-up is tame, as he has to rely on the threat of VV to keep you sitting still for a tick throw. Since that's the case, you can throw him off by FD'ing his pressure, 1F FD jumping, and SV. The safest options are always preferred.

Just make sure you punish him for throwing stupid shit out, and don't eat Wild Throw. It's annoying, but easy.

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against gun flame up close, jump backwards and then doublejump forwards, that way you don't have to guard it and you can punish Sol if he doesn't FRC. VV you'll have to bait (guard) and punish.

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against gun flame up close, jump backwards and then doublejump forwards, that way you don't have to guard it and you can punish Sol if he doesn't FRC. VV you'll have to bait (guard) and punish.

For an Upclose GF I like to Absolute Block and use 4 HS

No Damage and uses a tiny bit of Tension,Which can easily be recovered.

It all depends on the sol player,I find that new comers that play with Sol tend to rush in a lot,So why not use that to your advantage.

Average players tend to take his play style to his character laid back but quick to finish.

And if your me you like to be patient all the while keeping the opponent on egde.

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Of course, if your opponent is playing like a retard you should take advantage of that. But if you FD(which is what I assume you're doing) and then enter 4H you have a big chance that you're in his sweep range while he isn't in your throw range; the result: he will sweep GF FRC you for a 200 damage combo. Your 4H(throw) on success in contrast however, only does 55. Not to mention that in that situation its ideal counter mixup SV doesn't work either because SV doesn't hit Sol's sweep. Of course there's other abilities, but Sol has enough to counter them in a mixed up fashion. If you jump his GF however: he has to FRC it and then his mixup will be intercept/antiair 5K into blablabla/groundthrow right after you land. This pretty much means FD till you land and backdash/SV right after landing and you pretty much destroy any form of mixup he has to offer. Then if he dedicates himself to baiting that SV, you can actually attack him before you land.

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Watch his tension gauge. If he doesn't have 25%, hop right over the gunflame and punch his stupid ass. If he has over 25%, I think it's a better idea to just block, if he FRCs you won't gain any momentum because it's hard as hell to beat out 5K. Sol's mixup isn't that threatening anyways.

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