[P4AU] Yu Narukami - Gameplay Discussion

[Issen]

I made a video that may help people wanting to play Shadow Narukami.

There didn't seem to be an obvious explanation of what's actually happening in S.Narukami's SR combos, so I took it upon myself to make that explanation.

 

Not really sure how useful or necessary this video is, though. It may already be common knowledge, or maybe people just think that playing a Shadow that isn't Chie is likely not worth it. But I thought I'd put something out there.

[Tong]

I made a video that may help people wanting to play Shadow Narukami.

There didn't seem to be an obvious explanation of what's actually happening in S.Narukami's SR combos, so I took it upon myself to make that explanation.

 

Not really sure how useful or necessary this video is, though. It may already be common knowledge, or maybe people just think that playing a Shadow that isn't Chie is likely not worth it. But I thought I'd put something out there.

 

In some combos SB Air Zio must be used instead to cancel the recovery, specially in combos where Air C and D Zio are used.

[TheHitmarkersPro]

Not really sure how useful or necessary this video is, though. It may already be common knowledge, or maybe people just think that playing a Shadow that isn't Chie is likely not worth it. But I thought I'd put something out there.

Personally I think normal Yu is better, especially since his OMB combos(which are easier for the most part as well tbh) do comparable damage to some of his SB combos as well as being able to double over that burst defensively. Shadow Yu does look really fun to mess around with, but for a competitive/serious game I'd probably pick regular Yu.

[Bloo561]

Personally I think normal Yu is better, especially since his OMB combos(which are easier for the most part as well tbh) do comparable damage to some of his SB combos as well as being able to double over that burst defensively. Shadow Yu does look really fun to mess around with, but for a competitive/serious game I'd probably pick regular Yu.

I agree to a degree its true that Yu's SB combos aren't as safe as others but if you are facing a character that has low health like liz it would be effective. The same with kanji as his high health so a well placed combo can turn the match in your favor, the access to your cross slash if he plays too aggressive and/or risky and that Kanji's primary damage comes from his grabs (dont know if j.c fatal is still a thing) that you can't burst out of so taking normal Yu could be counterproductive. So Shadow Yu could be good in some cases.

[TheHitmarkersPro]

I agree to a degree its true that Yu's SB combos aren't as safe as others but if you are facing a character that has low health like liz it would be effective. The same with kanji as his high health so a well placed combo can turn the match in your favor, the access to your cross slash if he plays too aggressive and/or risky and that Kanji's primary damage comes from his grabs (dont know if j.c fatal is still a thing) that you can't burst out of so taking normal Yu could be counterproductive. So Shadow Yu could be good in some cases.

True, never really factored those in. It's also easier to get 100 meter than to wait on a burst. Pretty sure j.C still fatals and leads into massive damage with Kanji js. I feel a lot more comfortable doing OMB 214B routes than doing SB combos with yu though. They're both really good though for similar reasons.

On a side note, am I the only one who just feels like they have no hands in this game?

[grove03]

I made a video that may help people wanting to play Shadow Narukami.

There didn't seem to be an obvious explanation of what's actually happening in S.Narukami's SR combos, so I took it upon myself to make that explanation.

 

Not really sure how useful or necessary this video is, though. It may already be common knowledge, or maybe people just think that playing a Shadow that isn't Chie is likely not worth it. But I thought I'd put something out there.

 

Thanks for the upload! i don't think its common knowledge yet, but this is vital for higher level play. you NEED to be able to execute it consistently in order to be effective with Shadow Narukami. Also i posted the link in the first comment in the vid thread, too.

[Bloo561]

it sure wasn't common knowledge to me THANKS I just need to work on special canceling now

[TheHitmarkersPro]

Has anyone been experimenting with Yu's 5D for oki? I can't seem to find anything good for it at all besides corner 2C BDC, which is a bit finnicky and you need to time it a bit.

[Bloo561]

I seen oki done before by grover, but i havent seen anyway to use it as recovery takes too long for you to setup anything without either doing a 5dd before the mixup or the persona disappearing.

[TheHitmarkersPro]

Ok, so after some testing last night, I think I may have found a way to use 5D for pretty tight corner oki.  If you do a combo that ends in sweep > 214c, you'll get meaty 5D oki if they tech right away. I tested to see if you can beat the 5D with A mashing, and 5D beat Chie, Yu, and Yosuke's 5a and 2a. It's possible to DP it, but it seemed really tight even to DP(using Yu's DP). Some combos i was able to do off it into 5d reset were: 

2A > 2B > 5B > 5DD > IAD/FJC j.B > 5A or 5AA > 5C > 5B > 2B > Sweep > 214C > 5D

 

214A > 5DD > 5B > 2B > 5C > 5B > Sweep > 214C > 5D

 

I didn't get to test it online last night, but if anyone wants something to try out, here you go.

Mixup off of this is nowhere near as strong as p4a1, but it might be worth using or atleast trying. Midscreen this doesn't work as you can jump out or just 5A it.
 

[Tong]

Can't they delay tech to make 5D miss?

[TheHitmarkersPro]

Can't they delay tech to make 5D miss?

I actually didn't think of that to be honest.  I guess they could, but if they tech as soon as they can, it still works.

[Bloo561]

so its a trick that people can get out of, but its still useful.

[grove03]

Ok i'll try to cover as much as i can about Regular and Shadow versions

 

First off, yes he still technically has corner 5D oki, but because of how the move has way more recovery frames than before, it may not be even worth going for it as most of the cast can punish it. If you still wish to go for it the setup is this:

 

CH DP> 5D

Corner: stuff> 2C backdash 5D is still in, but has the same issues

 

stuff> 2C 214B delay 4D , in which you walk back a bit and then 5D

 

I'm still looking into uses for 2D oki and possibly 236[D] oki, but that think shadow yu might benefit more from 236[D], still need to lab stuff

 

anyways with those 2 setups they are only real oki setups if the opponent does not have a fast enough reversal to punish narukami. These circumstances will occur if the opponent naturally has a reversal DP to hit narukami out or metered variations. for ex: attempting 214B 5D setup against another narukami will be punished by either DP or C/CD CS, against chie, she can easily DP it, against kanji he can either Super command grab you out of it or use Chair super to punish you. Theres a lot more but you get the point.  unless you know that the opponent is unable to punish you because they require meter to do so, i recommend just going for safejump via jump j.b or 214 feint. so ya, RIP 5D

 

and with the CH DP 5D setup, it has the same issues, except i believe its possible to also roll through the setup.

 

AND of course people can just delay tech 5D, so when given an option to 5D or safejump, you should always go for safejump.

 

however it appears to be an ok tool to use in neutral to make sure the opponent doesnt sleep on you.  Some people used to do this in p4u1, which was very ineffective, but with the faster startup time it's an ok option to go to.  

 

 

NEXT TOPIC

SHADOW MODE!!

 

So recently people have found out about j.236D during shadow berserk mode, we're going to be calling this new term Zio Cancel (ZC), which basically reduces the recovery of raging lions to 0F!! From now on combo notations that use Zio Cancel as part of the combo should be annotated with ZC as such ex: 214AB ZC 2AB 236C 236CD 214AB ZC 2AB etc is an example. 

 

So with Zio cancel this explains a lot of JP shadow narukami combo videos as to how they're able to do the combo so fast.  

 

HOWEVER! this is not only used just for combos, you need to be able to utilize ZC as part of your blockstring and enders as well.

As you enter Shadow Berserk mode, your goal is to open up the opponent, which can be tough if they opt to mash you with either DP or Roll.  but with ZC you can potentially make any hit that they block, go into shadow berserk mode, and go full offense w/o the opponent being able to mash out because Shadow Yu DOES have blockstrings that are unmashable and will take the opponent to guard bonus state, and even then there are some routes that can not be mashed out of.  

 

So although it is nice to have a good list of combos to perform while in shadow berserk mode, I feel that this char mostly relies on gimmicks and/or resets.  I've already found a good number of resets as Shadow Yu, with which i'll be updating  in the combo thread and organizing them via combo routes, reset routes, and oki routes.

 

If you can master ZC and relie on using his full potential in shadow berserk, the opponent will have a hard time blocking your offense.

 

But beware this character is A LOT more work then Regular Yu.  He's only scary once he reaches 100m and even then if you can't lockdown your opponent you are going to have a hard time with this char.  Going back and forth between the two, It's very noticeable that Regular Yu is the better character with the noticeable damage increase from shadow to regular. 

 

This was just a quick run-down on the info as i haven't really updated it in a while, but there's even more things to discuss.  Hopefully I can also begin to discuss some tech that you can use to fight certain Match Up's.  

[grove03]

BREAKING NEWS! 

So remember how i said Zio Canceling is a shadow narukami thing so that he can continue his combos/blockstring?? Welp, I was wrong, Regular Yu can do it too!!! but to a lesser extent.

It makes perfect sense, and it explains how JP managed to combo FC 214AB 5C j.C 5C j.C 5C j.C etc, well, thats because they don't mention ANOTHER annotation yet again! after each j.C, they are inputting j.236D, again! so the combo would be like 5C j.C ZC 5C j.C ZC etc

And just like in the shadow form, Regular Yu can use ZC right after j.C to reduce j.C recovery frames, it actually works on block too!! 

 

So ya, have a blast with this guys!

 

THANK YOU BASED GOD J.236D!!

[Impulse1]

BREAKING NEWS! 

So remember how i said Zio Canceling is a shadow narukami thing so that he can continue his combos/blockstring?? Welp, I was wrong, Regular Yu can do it too!!! but to a lesser extent.

It makes perfect sense, and it explains how JP managed to combo FC 214AB 5C j.C 5C j.C 5C j.C etc, well, thats because they don't mention ANOTHER annotation yet again! after each j.C, they are inputting j.236D, again! so the combo would be like 5C j.C ZC 5C j.C ZC etc

And just like in the shadow form, Regular Yu can use ZC right after j.C to reduce j.C recovery frames, it actually works on block too!! 

 

So ya, have a blast with this guys!

 

THANK YOU BASED GOD J.236D!!

 

I'm not sure if I'm testing this right, but ZC seems to make j.C a viable safe jump against Kanji DP.  Low j.C zio cancelled leaves Narukami at advantage on block and if you space it right, will leave you safe from his DP.  I set it up with dash hop j.C(ZC) after 214C knockdown midscreen. 

 

Good to know I was missing something for that 5C>j.C loop though.  I was getting pretty sad that I couldn't do it.  Thanks grover.

[TheHitmarkersPro]

BREAKING NEWS! 

So remember how i said Zio Canceling is a shadow narukami thing so that he can continue his combos/blockstring?? Welp, I was wrong, Regular Yu can do it too!!! but to a lesser extent.

It makes perfect sense, and it explains how JP managed to combo FC 214AB 5C j.C 5C j.C 5C j.C etc, well, thats because they don't mention ANOTHER annotation yet again! after each j.C, they are inputting j.236D, again! so the combo would be like 5C j.C ZC 5C j.C ZC etc

And just like in the shadow form, Regular Yu can use ZC right after j.C to reduce j.C recovery frames, it actually works on block too!! 

 

So ya, have a blast with this guys!

 

THANK YOU BASED GOD J.236D!!

Time to hit the lab!

[Bloo561]

I'm not sure if I'm testing this right, but ZC seems to make j.C a viable safe jump against Kanji DP. Low j.C zio cancelled leaves Narukami at advantage on block and if you space it right, will leave you safe from his DP. I set it up with dash hop j.C(ZC) after 214C knockdown midscreen.

If this is true it will make the kanji MU a lot easier. Thanks for the the idea guys I work on it when I get home today as I haven't even tried to ZC yet.

[Tenryuga]

Just a quick question; what are Yu's oki options off of Midscreen 214C and corner combos that end with 214B?

[Tong]

Just a quick question; what are Yu's oki options off of Midscreen 214C and corner combos that end with 214B?

 

Midscreen/Corner 214C = safejump j.B

Corner 214B = safejump j.B or 5C>236A> 214> safejump j.B or back airdash j.236C (useful for beating faster reversals that would hit you out of j.B)

 

If they start delaying wakeup after 214C you can use dash in 2A> 5C> 236A> 214 to make them respect you a little more.

[TheHitmarkersPro]

Just putting it out there that if you do  etc >236A > 214 midscreen you can do falling j.2B as a cross up w/o airturn and on hit do j.2B > 5B > 5C > 214C to reset pressure.

 

You could airturn j.B but this is more discreet IMO

[HKSpadez]

hey guys. any tips on landing 236236A after a cross slash? I cant figure out the timing so i'm just mashing it right now. is it typically guaranteed?

[TheHitmarkersPro]

hey guys. any tips on landing 236236A after a cross slash? I cant figure out the timing so i'm just mashing it right now. is it typically guaranteed?

S-Hold once you input 214214C until the meter reads SP and let go and it does it on first frame. Easiest way possible, guaranteed.

[Bloo561]

You can do the above or start inputting the moment you see yu heading back into neutral (him moving his right foot back) but its really tight so i would just s hold it

[Aqueduct]

Yu's oki is game and I keep going sweep then pressing D. Fml. I'm trying to adapt to the change.

But I have a question.

How do I keep on the pressure with Yu? Like blockstrings and frame traps do you use?