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[P4AU] Yu Narukami - Gameplay Discussion

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In this video Chou punishes the delay tech with J2B a lot of times, you should watch it to get a better idea on how it works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95sc1wMj_NQ

 

Kanji is just annoying in that sense, if you jump he can use his anti air (236C) if you stay there waiting to see what he does he can command grab you and get an absurd damage of 3k or start a 5A string and since his 5A is so fast you cannot even backdash because you may get hit by the 5A and if you decide to attack there is the risk that he catches you with the command grab or he uses DP and you are unable to move, which gives him a lot of options to catch you again.

This is just a fucking guessing game, this character seriously needs a readjustment lol

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found interesting moment http://youtu.be/yKa99ph1qnI?t=9m18s

narukami does jB (also jA,jA or some variations are possible, depending was it on hit or on block), to become just slighly above ground, then makes j214AB, and on hit he can combo into 2A-etc. without OMC

Pretty sure they made this easier or something in 2.0, something similar was in Akio's notes.

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Can't really OS Kanji command throw mixup. Just have to guess. Minazuki you can fuzzy jump/hop but he can still frametrap you.

Are there any option select situations it this game?

Or is there option select at all?

Mostly interested in Kanji MU. After he has knckdwned me, he can either command grab me, or start his 5A string.

I have to guess there only, right? same for Minazuki, although his command grab doesnt have invuls

You can OS block/buffer backdash against Kanji throw mixups because you are throw invincible on wake-up, and you're also unable to backdash for a few frames. If he goes for a meaty, you block because you're holding back. If he delays for throw, you backdash out.

There are a lot of soft counters to this, like just using meaty 5A to blockstring into a mixup, but the only way to actually punish the OS is to punish the backdash, which can be difficult.

You can also OS jump/throw tech, because it is harder to punish a whiffed air throw than a whiffed ground throw.

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In this video Chou punishes the delay tech with J2B a lot of times, you should watch it to get a better idea on how it works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95sc1wMj_NQ

 

Kanji is just annoying in that sense, if you jump he can use his anti air (236C) if you stay there waiting to see what he does he can command grab you and get an absurd damage of 3k or start a 5A string and since his 5A is so fast you cannot even backdash because you may get hit by the 5A and if you decide to attack there is the risk that he catches you with the command grab or he uses DP and you are unable to move, which gives him a lot of options to catch you again.

This is just a fucking guessing game, this character seriously needs a readjustment lol

Welcome to grapplers

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I have been watching the some videos and the nerfs applied to the feint of raging lion B and air zio don't look really important.

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I have been watching the some videos and the nerfs applied to the feint of raging lion B and air zio don't look really important.

I'm not so sure about that. Air Zio is definitely a lot less potent now that Yu can't act almost immediately after use. It's harder to follow up after an Air Zio; prior to 2.0, you could pretty much throw it any range with very little risk, and get a massive reward if you landed a hit midscreen.

 

Just compare this video (2.0 Narukami) and this video (1.1). The difference is pretty noticeable.

 

I don't think the Raging Lion B feint got away scott-free either. It seems like it's easier to anti-air Yu now.

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I don't think the Raging Lion B feint got away scott-free either. It seems like it's easier to anti-air Yu now.

Yeah, B Lion Feint looks a fair bit easier to anti-air, and I've heard about extra landing recovery, which could also be a pain. If that's the case, I'm wondering if that still applies when you perform an attack after the feint.

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So it's been quite some time since 2.0 dropped. I figured we should take the time to talk about Narukami's performance in 2.0.

 

Yu saw some key nerfs between 1.1 and 2.0. The ones that stand out the most were the nerfs to his throw (which prevents him from comboing from a throw in the corner without meter), the nerfs to some of his normals (5B, 5C, J.2B) and the shortening of some our combo routes via proration changes. Additionally, the addition of Fatal Recovery on Raging Lion is a problem, especially since that's our primary throw bait option now that J.2B no longer has godlike range. Unfortunately, due to the fact that many of his moves that were nerfed were pillars of his gameplan, it's likely that our character won't be top tier, and yet... Narukami mains are still fighting hard. Aguro and Shikki (among others) are performing well, and there are many new things to look forward to or consider with 2.0 Narukami. New moves, such as SB Heroic Bravery (which is +3 on block) and D Ziodyne (much quicker recovery) as well as new combo routes need to be explored. All in all, despite seeing significant nerfed, i'm optimistic about Narukami's performance in P4U2 2.0.

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I've watched Shikki's recent set and all I can say is... he's still strong! It's just that some of his options are considerably weaker now, but nothing that should hinder his gameplay or peformance.

He also gets crazy meter with midcombo 5AAA (I suspect j.214A has been changed, has more untechable apparently).

 

The good options are still there and are still as good as ever! Dont despair brothers :ballYU:

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i'll keep it short and prob edit later but you're missing alot of points PKgaming

 

-Throw nerf is yes, non-ch and ch throw, we dont get much off

-his combo length is somewhat the same, the only proration changes were his starters, he actually got some of his other p2s buffed (jC, jD, 5AAA, maybe more)

-5C is not a great starter anymore, but j.D/2D are now the best starters.

-you're neglecting the nerf on air zio, ppl cant mindlessly spam it anymore

-raging lion FC recov is actually fair and its not his main throw bait, there are other ways. plus a-lion throw bait gets destroyed by fuzzy jump os and dp throw os

-his j.2b is still good, it can still hit crossup when crossing up with b-lion feint

-his game plan is the same, run stagger pressure, on hit lead to safejump etc, except he doesnt get damage off throw when used to open ppl up.

-236ab is ok for a keeping pressure, but sb zio does the same, and its +11/+10? i dont remember atm you'll prob prefer 236ab to close gaps

-Im not fond of D-ziodyne as it was a good move to punish certain attacks

-can't neglect obvious damage nerf across the board for everyone, but narukami can still do 9.5k off j.D

-Auto combo has less proration than in the previous version, but there may be some recovery changes?? frame data didnt list those

-Auto combo followed up after AoA-D gives stupid meter, didnt have that before

-FC on cross slash will hurt alot of players who just throw it out there, theres a reason why you'll very rarely (if ever) see aguro/shikki throw it out there unless they know it'll hit.

 

I said this before, if you played a safe-ish or low-risk narukami in 1.1, you should be able to handle your own. Damage nerf does hurt, but now you need to optimize your hits and play better neutral. the opponent gets to play a bit more in this version. it is obvious that he's no longer the best.

 

edit: guess it wasnt short, oh well, will still maybe comeback and edit.

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Thanks grove03.

 

A couple of things slipped my mind (like the Air Zio... I can't believe I forgot to mention that) but I wasn't aware of many of the things you mentioned. What are your thoughts on the new B feint? 

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B Feint is virtually useless now, or at best very limited to be used like past applications (crossup stuff). But hey, we dont know how bad the landing recovery and slower movement speed is now so...

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I said this before, if you played a safe-ish or low-risk narukami in 1.1, you should be able to handle your own. 

Welp im screwed :P

 

 Damage nerf does hurt, but now you need to optimize your hits and play better neutral.

Wasn't this the goal from the beginning? Yeah the damage nerf is there, but we always had to optimize on our hits to get a knockdown and play neutral (which I suck at but that besides the point). I agree with grove saying that the game plan hasn't changed it just we have to play more honest than ever before. Do I think he is the best still? Heck no, but he isn't what you guys and a lot of other players making out to be. Narukami is going to still be Narukami in 2.0 and we still have a lot to work with even with all the bad that's coming to him.

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I've been thinking about how S.Narukami will work in 2.0. Been trying to come up with SR combos in the wake of no Zio Cancels, and I've got something, but his corner damage doesn't match up with the midscreen damage. Will need to experiment more with the new Issen crumple.

 

Though I've started thinking -- because of how SR can be accessed at any meter level as long as Burst is available, maybe it'll be less about saving meter for a 5-6k combo and more about looking for opportunities to use SR similarly to how one might use OMB. Hey, maybe tack on three supers at the end of a FC corner combo?

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I've been thinking about how S.Narukami will work in 2.0. Been trying to come up with SR combos in the wake of no Zio Cancels, and I've got something, but his corner damage doesn't match up with the midscreen damage. Will need to experiment more with the new Issen crumple.

 

Though I've started thinking -- because of how SR can be accessed at any meter level as long as Burst is available, maybe it'll be less about saving meter for a 5-6k combo and more about looking for opportunities to use SR similarly to how one might use OMB. Hey, maybe tack on three supers at the end of a FC corner combo?

seems that way like since your opponent cant burst during a SR(Shadow Fury,Shadow Berserk I dont know anymore) you can use it before the 35% theshold to pack on the damage before awakening or if you still got time you can go for the kill

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seems that way like since your opponent cant burst during a SR(Shadow Fury,Shadow Berserk I dont know anymore) you can use it before the 35% theshold to pack on the damage before awakening or if you still got time you can go for the kill

I'm thinking it might be a better idea to use it for a guaranteed kill just above the Awakening threshold so they don't get the bonus since SR combos are unburstablr

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2.0 shadow yu is different from 1.1, in 2.0 he will be using his new SB zio in combos, which is plus on block and can easily be followed up on hit, as well as his new sb brave and daring, which is a strike now, and also plus and seems easy to followup (idk about followup on hit cause game isnt out) so i dont think its worth the effort to come up with 2.0 shadow combos in 1.1 because if not having access to new sb zio and the 10% damage difference.

 

There are also a few combos in the combo thread that dont use zio cancel. so you can always dig those up.  

 

edit: if you want a reference for 2.0 shadow yu, IIRC Hama has picked up Shadow Yu this time around.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMD6SyLVdGs&t=25m53s

 

j.B>j.C|>5B>5C...etc.  Visually, it looks like there's no landing recovery after j.C like after a zio cancel, but iirc that's gone.  Maybe we have something else to work with to cancel j.C landing recovery?  I'm thinking it's probably j.D.

 

IIRC, j.C doesnt have that awkward mid-air pause anymore in 2.0, or if it still does, its significantly less, so thats what you're looking at.

 

however j.D doesnt have landing recovery in 2.0, in 1.1 using j.D, there are a few frames of landing recovery doesnt make some strings tight such as for example:

 

Shadow Yu 5AAA meaty j.D> fallin j.B> 5A, the space between j.B and 5A wouldnt be a true blockstring, its quite noticable, similar to hop cancel followups, but some of the hop cancel followups couldve been avoided with zio cancel, but thats not in 2.0 anymore.

 

edit: ok, didnt open the link, maybe its j.D, i could ask him (aguro) and find out. maybe

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Ever wondered why d cross slash exist here's why (the first 30 seconds of the video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thmKSUYOhGk (Just wanted to throw this out there to start a discussion.) 

 

Edit: I can search for some videos tomorrow. 2.0 or 1.1?

 

uhh thats cute, but very unlikey.

 

However, some cute/stupid/"why does this exist" type of stuff with D cross slash that does exist is cornered wakeup C/D cross slash mixup! (not really)

Some ppl like to roll cross slash on wake up for an easy punish, but if they roll on D CS, it will crossup and fatal them and you have a FC corner starter. even theres a difference in startup frame-wise, its ridiculous to differentiate the two apart.  

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so whats the best way to deal with Minazuki his 5A 2A and J.B are blowing me up i feel like when i press 5B to stop him from advancing his 66 2A still wins i guess because of the speed and range.

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(Someone correct me if Im wrong, which I am probably am)

None of narukami's normals will beat 5a with its speed and range. Even 5a wont beat it, so you just have to block. 2a can beat his  2a,5b,and 2b can beat 2a on reaction and 2b can beat j.b if its not a safe jump.

The thing with minazuki is his buttons are so large in terms of mid/close range that if you press anything you are putting yourself at risk. 

Hopely this happens and/or people that know the match up better can explain in more detail.

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