[CPEX] Azrael - Critique Thread

[HunterSteven]

I see what you mean about the TCL, before then i thought i was auto-piloting and didnt get many uses of his weakpoints so i was trying to mix it up a bit.

I though i was blocking pretty well, but i he definitely realised i liked to backdash in the corner for the second game.

the ID punish i just really wanted to do a fatal combo haha.

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback

[Zyed]

I see what you mean about the TCL, before then i thought i was auto-piloting and didnt get many uses of his weakpoints so i was trying to mix it up a bit.

I though i was blocking pretty well, but i he definitely realised i liked to backdash in the corner for the second game.

the ID punish i just really wanted to do a fatal combo haha.

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback

 

Yeah waking up and doing back dash in the corner and especially mid screen is only a gimmick and is not recommended for good defense. you're better off wakin up and blockin a little of his string THEN back dash for safety

 

alot of ragnas scout out wake up back dash and punish you by running further with 5B its pretty gay

[Zyed]

I'm gonna post vids later on my az

 

hope you guys can give some good critique! 

))

[Luminos564]

So...this is a new one for me and I'll apologise in advance for any mistakes. First, a small bit of history on my part. I've played Haku-men exclusively since CT and for years I was perfectly fine with playing him in relative mediocrity. It wasn't until CP happened that I grew tired of playing him (the changes to his Drive didn't help) and I messed around with Terumi for a time until I picked up and played Azrael on a whim. Come CP Extend and I really like playing him the most.

 

Unfortunately, the years of playing my mediocre Haku-men left me with too many bad habits and too little experience with anything else. To the point where even though I know Azrael is a very potent character in CP Extend just from footage alone, I am unable to utilize any of his better stuff. I've managed to compile a video of my Day 1 attempts at playing him. In truth, I know full well that I am utter garbage and that most of these victories were fraudulent on my part (you'll see it especially in the first match). At the moment, my playing can be likened to a Hail Mary pass where you go in more or less blind and hope for the best. The thing is that I don't want to remain at that level with this character. I don't need to be some EVO monster player but I should think that being competent isn't out of my reach.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZrrmQznRQU&feature=youtu.be

 

If you need a time-stamp on each match-up:

vs. Haku-men: 0:00

vs. Terumi: 3:45

vs. Platinum: 6:24

vs. Lambda: 15:41

vs. Kagura: 18:00

vs. Noel: 21:00

vs. Ragna: 25:21

vs. Azrael: 28:42 <(my personal favorite of the lot)

 

I actually had a lot more matches recorded but I figured it best to condense it into something much shorter. I thought it best to pick the highlight that showcase both when I am at my worst and at the (current) best. The matches are in, more or less, chronological order of that day. 

 

Now to the point: what do I need to start practicing/learning about this character so that I can eventually move on from this trash level of play? What am I doing wrong (I realize there must be a lot but please point out whatever it is you see)? What am I doing right (I imagine this is a lot less than the former)? Upon self-observation, I should most likely stop throwing out Gustav so liberally along with Growler (though some of those happened due to lag online even though you don't see it in the video). Likewise, I find 3C isn't the best choice for trying to open the opponent up and have been trying to tone down its use. Finally, you notice that I am not doing any of Azrael's aerial stuff. That's because, at the moment, I am incapable of doing them. Oh sure, I pull his basic (UW) 5B>2C>6D>5B>J.B>J.C>J.D fine in challenge mode but not at all in actual combat (and I know that's just the basic one). Chalk another laundry list of things I ought to learn.

 

Anyway, that's about it. I realise that this is asking a lot but if you've got advice and time to spare, I would love to hear it. Because I finally feel like I found a character that suits me in BB after so many years. Thank you in advance.

[RentalBlackout]

Your level is play is pretty reasonable for someone who has only been playing as much as you have. If there's one thing I could say to sum things up, is that you play a little bit too wild haha

Anyway, you can start with these things :-

1. Like you've mentioned, try not to throw out growler too much, unless you want to absorb a projectile. It also can be used as a pseudo DP, due to it's speed, but remember it has absolutely no invulnerability and it's highly punishable.
2. Use 236D/214D a lot less, especially in neutral, their use are quite limited outside of combos(very very situational). The reason being that they're pretty slow and telegraphed. They may have guardpoints but it takes quite a while for them to activate. 214D can be used as a preemptive anti-air sometimes, but I really doubt it's all that useful, especially since Azrael has overall, safer and faster anti-air options.
3. Blackhawk stinger does not have invulnerability on it(very little), it's not really like Spencer's Bionic Arm(UMVC3), so don't use it to snipe unless you know they're going to do something slow, or you want to punish their recovery on something and they're too far away. There is a certain range they cannot jump in time after the superflash, but they could just stick out a normal and beat it most of the time(unless you are pretty close).
4. 2C used to be really good, but not so much anymore after it's nerf. Outside of pressure(and 2C pressure is very risky anyway) only use it as an anti-air when you're sure they're going to jump in at you at a relatively low height, and you need the head invulnerability, else use 5A/5B/6B, or air to air instead.
5. Gustaf is great and all, but don't rely on it too much, as people can just avoid it totally. If you want more range on it, learn how to do 662369A, it's much faster than doing 66236A. Else, you should go for shorter/safer movement, which brings me to my next point...
6. Movement in general is something you have to get used to with Azrael. He can't run, and this is a big deal. Forward dash thankfully can be jump canceled, and it can be barrier'd a lot faster than instant air dashing/air dashing, so this is sometime you'd wanna get used to doing. The later you cancel your forward dash, the greater the momentum you retain. Learn how to do the high jump cancel variant too, and always remember, that you have two jumps(unless you've airdashed) You can even IAD(Instant Air Dash) after a jump canceled dash if you really want to move forward quick. Don't get too predictable with your movement however.
7. Work on your pressure strings/mixups. I think this is just you not being familiar with the character, but yeah, just explore his gatling options more. Also, remember you can jump cancel 5A/5B.
8. Look for IceCube's old oki post in the strategy guide thread, it's still mostly relevant, except that we don't have sentinel oki anymore. 
9. This is also something you'll naturally learn, but do combos according to the situation. You don't have to end in Rekkas if you're not near the corner, as it'll just reset the situation to neutral, and you don't get to tag them with a weakpoint, you can end in Gustaf instead, or you could end in 2C>3D/6D. Use up weakpoints when you get a confirm. In general it's better to not end your combos in super as you don't really get oki off of it. Learning combos are one thing, but confirming them in the respective situation is important too.
10. You used the right super for reversals just don't do it everytime you have meter. Remember that we have a good backdash to get ourselves out of trouble too(again, don't use it all the time, unless your opponent doesn't know how to punish it), and also remember that waking up blocking is still an option.

There are a couple of other small things but if you patch these things up first then you'll already be a better than average player. Also, watch vids on Azrael being played by other people and you can learn a couple of things by putting yourself in their shoes in each situation. You can even watch older videos of Azrael, just keep in mind what you can and can't do anymore in BBCPEX.

 

Glad that you have found somebody that suits you, I can see that you definitely had fun playing him, with the Astrals and what not hahaha.

[Luminos564]

First of all, thank you very much RentalBlackout for the detailed reply. I was somewhat worried that it'd take longer since the post before mine was in March but here I am, proven (happily) wrong.

 

If you do not mind, I just need a bit of follow-ups on some of the points.

 

4. 2C used to be really good, but not so much anymore after it's nerf. Outside of pressure(and 2C pressure is very risky anyway) only use it as an anti-air when you're sure they're going to jump in at you at a relatively low height, and you need the head invulnerability, else use 5A/5B/6B, or air to air instead.

 

I had tried sometime ago to use 2C and 6B as anti-airs. A good number of times the opponent either was able to stop themselves with a well-timed air barrier (6B) or simply stuffed it (2C). 5B proved more reliable to me and IIRC it can go into 2C link on hit correct? 5A is the only one that somewhat worries me since I've never been too good at comboing anything off of light attacks. Is it simply a matter of reacting faster to the hit-confirm?

 

5.Gustaf is great and all, but don't rely on it too much, as people can just avoid it totally. If you want more range on it, learn how to do 662369A, it's much faster than doing 66236A. Else, you should go for shorter/safer movement, which brings me to my next point...

 

6.Movement in general is something you have to get used to with Azrael. He can't run, and this is a big deal. Forward dash thankfully can be jump canceled, and it can be barrier'd a lot faster than instant air dashing/air dashing, so this is sometime you'd wanna get used to doing. The later you cancel your forward dash, the greater the momentum you retain. Learn how to do the high jump cancel variant too, and always remember, that you have two jumps(unless you've airdashed) You can even IAD(Instant Air Dash) after a jump canceled dash if you really want to move forward quick. Don't get too predictable with your movement however.

 

This I was not aware of. I mean, I remember hearing back in CP 1.1 that you could speed up Sentinel from a forward dash, but I wasn't aware that Gustav benefited from this either nor was I aware that I needed to input the 9 direction when doing it (might be the reason why I never noticed a difference up to now). The bolded part also intrigues me. I was always under the impression that jump canceling a dash (or any move in general) end with the character airborne. But from the phrasing, does this mean the JC'd dash means Azrael stays on the ground in order to then do a IAD?

 

7. Work on your pressure strings/mixups. I think this is just you not being familiar with the character, but yeah, just explore his gatling options more. Also, remember you can jump cancel 5A/5B.

 

You're right about that. At this point in time I am not sure how to pressure/mix-up with Azrael. Especially on another player. Is there a way I can practice this in Training mode? 

 

9. This is also something you'll naturally learn, but do combos according to the situation. You don't have to end in Rekkas if you're not near the corner, as it'll just reset the situation to neutral, and you don't get to tag them with a weakpoint, you can end in Gustaf instead, or you could end in 2C>3D/6D. Use up weakpoints when you get a confirm. In general it's better to not end your combos in super as you don't really get oki off of it. Learning combos are one thing, but confirming them in the respective situation is important too.

 

Oh I absolutely agree. At the moment, I only really know how to go into 5B~B>TCL>BHS. But even that is inconsistent because the 46 motion for Cobra still feels unnatural to me. The CF loketest mentions that the motion was just changed to 6C, but that is neither now nor is is guaranteed to stay. So I definitely ought to practice it in varying combos until it becomes a non-issue. As for learning combos, is there a particular list of ones I could start with? I understand that eventually my "combo repertoire" will expand, but if you do not mind, which ones would be useful to prioritize first?

 

There are a couple of other small things but if you patch these things up first then you'll already be a better than average player. Also, watch vids on Azrael being played by other people and you can learn a couple of things by putting yourself in their shoes in each situation. You can even watch older videos of Azrael, just keep in mind what you can and can't do anymore in BBCPEX.

 

Glad that you have found somebody that suits you, I can see that you definitely had fun playing him, with the Astrals and what not hahaha.

 

Oh yeah I love landing that Astral. The fact that it is a "legit" option in some cases and not just swagger points is simply icing on the cake. My only regret is that I didn't hear the version with the maniacal laugh but meh. And yeah, out of all the characters I've tried, Azrael really is just the most fun and satisfying for me. I suppose I ought to change my signature soon...

 

Thanks once again. Now I begin the process of practicing this. 

[Kinkuli]

I had tried sometime ago to use 2C and 6B as anti-airs. A good number of times the opponent either was able to stop themselves with a well-timed air barrier (6B) or simply stuffed it (2C). 5B proved more reliable to me and IIRC it can go into 2C link on hit correct? 5A is the only one that somewhat worries me since I've never been too good at comboing anything off of light attacks. Is it simply a matter of reacting faster to the hit-confirm?

 

If you use 5A as an antiair you more or less just need to hitconfirm faster and commit to it a bit. You could potentially go for 5A jA jB and by now you should already be aware if opponent is blocking and potentially go for jA jB jA jA or similar string (jB gatlings into jA!). If you see you scored a hit, then just go into jC jc j2D/jD depending on where you are in the screen. In corner jD is preferred and midscreen go for j2D.

 

This I was not aware of. I mean, I remember hearing back in CP 1.1 that you could speed up Sentinel from a forward dash, but I wasn't aware that Gustav benefited from this either nor was I aware that I needed to input the 9 direction when doing it (might be the reason why I never noticed a difference up to now). The bolded part also intrigues me. I was always under the impression that jump canceling a dash (or any move in general) end with the character airborne. But from the phrasing, does this mean the JC'd dash means Azrael stays on the ground in order to then do a IAD?

 

 

You might be overthinking this part haha. It just means that you jump cancel out of his dash into IAD. 

 

You're right about that. At this point in time I am not sure how to pressure/mix-up with Azrael. Especially on another player. Is there a way I can practice this in Training mode?

You can definately check out mixups in training mode but their effectiveness can only be gauged in a real match. Azrael's basic pressure is pretty straight forward. You can cancel most normals into 5D for a quick overhead which should open people up most of the time unless you go for it always. 2D is really good low option which is now +2 on block so using it is also an good idea, just be careful with spacing it. Then there are the myriad of crossup shenanigans you can do by utilizing TK specials after forward dash. on opponents wakeup you can crossup 5A/5B or forward dash and do gustaf/Tiger magnum (input would be 66 2147A/C if you start from the left side). 5A and 5B are also jump cancellable so you could crossup from those or just IAD to continue pressure if opponent respects you. From blocked jB from jump in or IAD you can go for 2A/5D/crossup and even throw but be careful with throws as it doesn't really have that good range. Crossup can also be dangerous if opponent knows how to OS it but i'm pretty sure just letting the jump cancel rock will beat out those. But yeah there's so many things to talk about his pressure and this part is already all over the place haha. I could do a writeup on his pressure at somepoint for more content on this subforum. Hopefully you can get started with this though.

 

Oh I absolutely agree. At the moment, I only really know how to go into 5B~B>TCL>BHS. But even that is inconsistent because the 46 motion for Cobra still feels unnatural to me. The CF loketest mentions that the motion was just changed to 6C, but that is neither now nor is is guaranteed to stay. So I definitely ought to practice it in varying combos until it becomes a non-issue. As for learning combos, is there a particular list of ones I could start with? I understand that eventually my "combo repertoire" will expand, but if you do not mind, which ones would be useful to prioritize first?

 

I'd say just get basic hitconfirms down and work on your spacial awareness. Azrael's combos in 1.1 where pretty free form in a sense that you could just do stuff into TCL into stuff and it most likely was pretty optimal. This time around you have to know where you are on the screen and use combos depending on the situation and where you are at the screen. Basic ones i think you might want to get used to is valiant combos and more specifically using growler during them so opponent can't burst. Other than that i think his corner carry combos with 50% are worth looking into. The combo thread IMO is pretty good so def check that out and go from there. It's more important to get muscle memory and his combo theory down so you can react to hitconfirms and confirm into correct thing when needed. 

 

Hopefully this helps!

[Monokeros]

I just "re" picked up Azrael recently and I've been playing online I have the general idea for his combo theory down but I'm still piecing together matchups.

If anyone could stop by and give me advice when I stream at afreeca.tv/monokeros that'd be great, I usually play from 9am to noon PST everyday.

[Luminos564]

So I managed to record some matches with a PSN buddy and I tried to apply some of the things that I ought to be doing. The result...isn't very pretty. I must confess, I have not had much chance to practice with Azrael due to work and other things happening in my life. But please have a look and see if you spot a difference between my last set and the now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXWb-QiMDvE. Apologies in advance for the poorer quality. I honestly have no idea what happened since the original video was converted to HD anyway. Chalk it up to youtube being dumb I guess.

Some of the things I noticed: I managed to keep Growler usage down a lot. Unfortunately, it seems I picked up YOLO'ing Scud Punishment as a result for the tough situation, even though most don't call for its use. I am still pulling off random Valiants and Hornets, though sometimes this was due to either lag or small panic. Definitely need to get rid of both ASAP. I've also started applying 5A more on TCL wall-stick. Still haven't managed the full sequence (5A>jc>jA>jB>jC>jc>jD/j2D) but these were also the first times my brain remembered to try it out so work in progress. My pressure seems to be improving somewhat, though I keep forgetting to utilize 5D and 2D. 

What I am finding difficult is utilizing Azrael's backdash defensively. Though I didn't manage to pull it off in the matches recorded, there were times where I was able to backdash in between my opponent's block string. However, it is also inconsistent as sometimes I am able to do it on a move but then not be able to do it later on the same one. Would IB'ing be what makes the difference here? Because I cannot tell. Likewise, movement is still stiff. I grasp the principle of ending Azrael's dash with a jump or Barrier Block, but execution is another matter. Added, I am still not sure how to apply IAD to it or how to use it to give Gustav more ground. Is there a video/notation demonstration on this somewhere? I mean sure, I can practice for hours on end when I am not busy, but it's fruitless if I am not practicing correctly.

Thanks a lot once again.

[narga21]

ok so I got a few replays to show you guys. I need second opinions on my problems but really I need help in neutral. most of these are from problem match ups for me, I don't know what I should be doing against them. I feel like Azrael forces me to learn whereas my old main ( ragna ), I got away with a lot more stuff because my normal are better. most of these are from my friend azure, he's really good but he does aggravating scrub shit and it always seem to work. also I don't have capture equipment, I used my ps4 share function.

 

me vs azure (tsubaki ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reuFghwbZEo

me vs azure (noel) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEjv5rsrxWQ

me vs shadowblade (kagura) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02K3ZcXSDlQ

me vs uryuukid (Terumi) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U97X7w1YwL0

me vs vice-taicho (litchi) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtspVrOmqDI

me vs azure (tsubaki) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q_xi6k0VwA

me vs azure ( tsubaki ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5bsNvVutm8

 

any and all criticism would be appreciated thank you.

 

 

 

 

[Koopa_Klawz]

 (vs Litchi)

 

(vs Jin)