[P4AU] Chie Satonaka Gameplay Discussion

[Colpevole]

Nah, Chie doesn't need a good ranged option, she's the type of character who would be broken if she had one. 214A/B is going to be amazing though. IDK, I like the new Chie, she can still rob matches (now just by raw damage) but her neutral is better at the cost of some 5DD setups and stuff, it's really cool. Kirisame is still god too, so that's great to see!

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Kirisame still being a Persona elder god is definitely awesome. I just wish there was more footage of him floating around ;.;

[mixedmethods]

As someone who plays against Chie, I'm wondering about the change to Agneyastra. Does this mean it's actually possible to halt an incoming mix-up after Agneyastra? It seems like Chie players may have to be more careful about using that to reset momentum, though that's probably just wishful thinking on my part. I've been able to punish bad Agneyastra usage when it's thrown out while I'm playing Aigis (it's situational -- Orgia movement can jump the last part of the super and let me boost in to keep Chie from starting a mix-up), but if all I have to do is tap Chie or Tomoe, that makes my life much easier.

Total scrub/feel-free-to-call-me-an-idiot question: Fatal Recovery on High Counter -- does this mean throwing out Chie's DP to get to Agneyastra is no longer a safe option? Interesting.

(Edited because I was able to answer my original question. Sorry.)

[MegaBlues]

For Agneyastra, it seems like it won't be able to be thrown out for easy reversals and momentum-stopping, since the opponent can just hit you and stop it.

 

For High Counter, it's probably still safe, considering how quickly it comes out and recovers. Sometimes, people don't even realized the catch failed, and when they try to counter-hit Chie, she's already recovered in time to block or try another one.

 

But you'd probably be better off using the SP for a reversal God-Hand instead of Agneyastra, unless you -really- need to get in. Or you want a full-screen punish.

 

EDIT- Or, for one of those 100 SP Instant-Kill CH combos from the combo thread. SB Power Charge is going to be amazing.

[mixedmethods]

Well, I usually play Aigis, so if Chie doesn't need Agneyastra, I'm on the losing side of the round. Baiting High Counter is something I tend to do, as I'm watching for Chie to activate it anticipating 2B or any of my bullet-type moves during keep-away situations and the neutral game. (Or if I've blocked a mixup and Chie is baiting reversal.) The ability to shut down Agneyastra is huge for me, as Aigis has options to tap Chie or Tomoe during the super and keep Chie from starting rushdown... depending on the gap between theory and practise.

Fatal Counter off DP is tricky but at a minimum it might stop Chies from spamming it to get to Agneyastra, and potentially change the neutral game. If I condition a Chie to expect 2B, knowing they'll DP it eventually, I can delay 2B or switch to Vulcan Cannon and score a Fatal Counter, possibly a FC into a combo if the spacing is favourable. Maybe. Not likely. It's still a fairly safe DP, and Chie's still going to be ridiculously strong, but since Chie can use her DP to force Awakening while Aigis can't, anything that makes the match-up slightly less "first to gain momentum wins unless you're Chie and have Agneyastra as a get out of jail free card" is fine by me.

Or I'm reading the data completely wrong. More than anything, I'm glad to hear about the Agneyastra changes. I don't want Chie nerfed to oblivion, and it's not like Aigis doesn't have problematic elements of her own, but no one should be able to reset momentum whenever they please by firing off meteors. (At least Narukami has to OMC Ziodyne if he wants to run full screen.)

[Noxe]

I've actually haven't seen that yet. Could you point me to a video where you saw this happening?

It happens areound 7:34 in this video

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCMVqM6HGms

 

Also this skullcracker shows that i hits low twice. I don't know a ton about chie but in the wiki it says all the skullcrackers hit high then low. Is this a change?

[Mo the Hawk]

It happens areound 7:34 in this video

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCMVqM6HGms

 

Also this skullcracker shows that i hits low twice. I don't know a ton about chie but in the wiki it says all the skullcrackers hit high then low. Is this a change?

It's still high-then-low. The blue "!" means they got opened up by an overhead.

[Colpevole]

Ok, quick update: the game is released in Japan for console, and is region free \o/. This means expect some updates coming from me (and maybe a few other Chie players too) over the next few days. A combo thread will go up *post Summer Jam* once we discover/steal some combos. Love - your friendly neighboorhood Chie mod.

Anyway, now that the game is playable, let's get some more gameplay discussion going!

*Edit: Learning these combos is hard, I'll need a full, non work day to work on this so Monday when I'm off will be dedicated to this.

[Rybuster]

Got to play a bit this morning, burned through Chie's challenge mode. Seems a bit easier. I was kinda shocked when challenge 20 did almost 7k damage for 100 meter, but there's only 25 challenges for normal Chie now so I guess that's not so crazy. Still getting used to 2DD/5DD throwing the opponent away, I'm assuming you have to vacuum them back in with 5AA> something but I'll have to figure that out later. The 2DD nerf makes me sad but it's not like I disagree with it. Overall, new Chie seems a lot more fun to play. Less braindead in the corner, more combo potential. I can dig it.

[Mo the Hawk]

Didn't get to play a ton last night but some quick notes:

• Dash startup acceleration is slower so she can't stay in your face w/ [66 5A]xN as easily anymore. Pushed out of range after 3 reps.
• Haven't found a way to get two Rampage B's in one (non-FC) combo yet.
• Standing j.B loops on Narukami/Yosuke are gone, looks like a hitstun nerf on 2B. Also j.BB/j.2B won't connect there at all even if they block the first j.B, probably lifted the hitbox higher.
• Comboing off CH throws seems to remain unchanged.
• B Lunge and SB Lunge feel like pretty weak starters. You have to really be fishing for CH on those to get something good out of a raw Lunge.
• j.A is the god now. There's no reason you should be losing air-to-air situations anymore. You even still get a nice combo into j.8D regardless of how many j.As you throw out beforehand.

[Broken_Angel]

may be some mimi guide for noob?

I do not know where to start.

BNB mid-corner

few pressing tools and shadow HD combo.

[Colpevole]

So S./Chie's new unblockable with SB God's Hand OMC is A: blockable if you're paying a ton of attention and a god B: if they do it perfectly, not comboable after because only one hit (either the high or low) hits, and both cannot be combo'd after.

[s3psev]

no Shadow Chie thread?

[PinkuSugoivisor]

Is there a trick or a special timing for chie challenge 21? I'm doing it exactly like the demo but the sb rampage just doesn't carry them to the ground like it should.

[Mo the Hawk]

Is there a trick or a special timing for chie challenge 21? I'm doing it exactly like the demo but the sb rampage just doesn't carry them to the ground like it should.

 

Yeah we never heard about this before so it drove me nuts too, but tapping a direction during j.236AB changes her trajectory. So you need to tap down (STRAIGHT down - 2 - can't be 1 or 3 or the Skullcracker won't connect) during the SB Rampage to float him back down to the ground.

[Primiera]

That did it, thanks. Feel kinda cheated, never heard of that before and I just wasted 2 hours on that dumb challenge before knowing about that.

 

Anyone got a solution to Shadow Chie 30? Use every move in one combo. Not even sure where to begin.

[Greatest Guess]

Does anyone have setups after sweep into 214A? Midscreen or corner, a safejump would be a lifesaver.

[Colpevole]

just hold up forward and j.2B a bit late for safejump after sweep > lunge.

[Primiera]

Current thoughts on Chie vs Shadow Chie (not match-up, character wise)?

 

Seems in my lowly opinion, Shadow Chie's explosive damage fits her new style of gameplay (less oki, more about getting solid hits in), so with either character you're still doing a few low damage knockdowns but Shadow Chie can end the round after only 2-3 knockdowns. Shadow Chie seems like basically the ultimate form of a shadow character, maximizes shadow rampage off of damn near any hit while not caring so much about the otherwise low damage since she's not doing high damage knockdowns normally unless she's going for damage, normally reserved for finishing off an opponent later in the round anyway.

 

Am I completely off-base here?

[Orrax]

Chie's shadow version is probably the only shadow version who is better than the normal version. I think shadow Mitsuru is better, but I think that's more because Mitsuru's a better character.

 

So, no, I don't think you're off base at all.

[Primiera]

Just realized they nerfed AA CH j.B. It used to be a full 5B into juggle no matter what, now it's hard to get a 5A at high heights. Well that's annoying.

 

Aaaaand it seems they nerfed 5C dash anti-air. Can't do 5C dc 5A juggle combos it seems.

[Primiera]

Sorry for the double post, but it's been quite a few days.

 

Anyone have experience fighting Ken? Seems really rough to me. Everything he does seems safe, his j.B is just unstoppable (214C's all I got ...), trying to use 5C or dash up 2A/5A/5B seems so risky because of his grounded normals being so hard to deal with. All I've been trying to do is make everything whiff rather than fighting any of it head on. I try to do that and stay in the air, but his air game's not bad at all.

 

Any specific tips? Anything that seems safe that in reality is a full on punish? It seems to me like fighting Mitsuru but without 2A being as good a counter.

 

Help.

[Orrax]

Hmm, looks like we need some P4U matchup threads.

 

Anyway, I've fought Ken a few times, but I haven't fought any that are really good. My first reaction to the match-up was basically your reaction, but over time I've been thinking it's not that bad.

 

In my experience, his pressure is deceptively safe -- it's not actually as airtight as it seems. On the other hand, I'm not really sure what Ken's mix-up game is supposed to be. Most Ken's I've seen use lots of pressure and an occasional AoA, and I'm not really sure if that's his optimal game plan. I'd guess he probably has something better off of jump normals with Koromaru pressure, but I haven't really looked into it. From the Kens I've fought, I've usually been able to break free through patience and instant blocking.

 

His anti-airs are also not the best. He has no spammable poke in close (he can't gatling 2A into itself), and his dp will get him killed (there's more than enough time to instant kill him, but there are usually better ways to punish). As a result, he seems pretty weak against Chie in close.

 

Seems like he's got some solid oki options, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V47sbvNZsAo. I haven't run into any Ken players making good use of that yet, so I can't really comment on how to deal with it.

 

One other thing: animal abuse, and lots of it (ok, not really). If you're at neutral and you have a chance to knock Koromaru down, in my experience it's been a good idea to take it. Ken's game without Koromaru to back him up is pretty weak.

 

On the whole, I usually find patience in the neutral game pays off, and you've really got to make it count when you get in.

 

 

Hopefully someone with more match-up experience than me will toss in their two cents.

[Anne]

Hmm, looks like we need some P4U matchup threads.

Go ahead and make them ^_^ you guys can make any threads you want :o

[BlackYakuzu94]

I haven't even posted in this thread yet since I don't plan on getting the game anytime soon, but I may as well get as much tech as I can. What's the general consensus of Chie in this version? I've seen we've lost some significant options(5DD oki, 5A stagger, etc.) so I wanna how badly that's affected our gameplan.