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zaeris

Dizzy GGX3 Wish List

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Disclaimer * it is somewhat of a copy from the johnny thread*

This sub forum hasn't been getting alot of discussion lately, so in the name of fun let’s make a list of changes we would like to see, hopefully what people list won't be as broken but the term practical and execution comes in minds as some of dizzy property needs adjustment and some changes from reload--> Slash--> AC has some ' + ' and ' - '.

(2D)

One of the changes to AC I don’t partially like is the 2D range nerft, Dizzy 2k is an extreme good poke if u consider its range property, probably one of the betters lows with good range. The main issue is the range decrease on 2D doesn’t let dizzy use her potential to full, while it may seems like a rant I feel a simple galtor like 2k--> 2d shouldn’t be whiffing on targets. The + side of 2d is the unprorated effect of the move but I wouldn’t mind a 70% prorate to get back her range. The jump cancel and special cancel is debatable either one is fine and I can live with either as it’s stylish and allows for great pressure game play, Jump cancel --> special cancel has been one of dizzy more technical side to game play which I think has made her a somewhat more obstructive for high level game play but also more rewarding.

*Side Note brings back her 2d frc.*

(Kinomi wo toru toki ni tsukatteta n desu, 421 S, Air spike)

One of the few changes from reload--> slash I enjoy is the ability to hold this special. It’s an excellent move to induce threat on people without experience and with a few mental challenges you can play your game fine while holding onto it as a safe measure. One of the few things I find daunting is the lost of air spike when hit, I’m fine with it disappearing during the summon stage and the holding stage but when you release the special I feel that its property shouldn’t disappear on hit allowing it to be a normal projectile. Applying Dizzy AC fish property of staying out when fully summon that allows for punishes on dry summoning but gives leeway to dizzy as an oki class character.

(Necro Okotta Baai, 632146P )

The change in input has made this move a lot more practical in real matches and with a few tweaks you can input this command as an instant block and punish. My issue is the lack of damage as in real matches those with experience can evade and punish it with ease as the start up and OD animation is a dead give away to its activation.

(6P)

This one I will be sitting on the fence, the changes has its + and -, I prefer its AC incarnation but it isn’t practical in any real sense as a KD would be prefer. Its property should be untechable on CH which I believe would make it a better move but that might be asking too much. The wall bounce effect into 421 s has being an interesting discovering in AC but limited to character specific combos.

(J.hs )

One of Dizzy best arsenal for damages, range and block stun, - negative it can be easily punish and the longer start up has reflected badly on her game play. One of the few times I get disappointed with this move is in cross over, the long start up makes it a bad choice in those circumstance. Hopefully it would go back to the way it was in reload and we can see application of AD x2 jhs cross over.

(FB bubble)

Besides novelty it hasn’t been usefully much in matches, wishing for a rainbow colour bubble ^^, or better yet a real Force break. I sometimes think even Anji’s red butterfly and Bridget FB roger outclass Dizzy’s FB.

(Yoku hanashiaite ni natte kuremasu, 214 “x” x= P,K,S or HS)

One of the dizzy better changes, double fish input is been one of her finer points in AC, the after summon delay is problematic. Doing fish summon tick throws and not allow to resummon fish is probably the biggest issue I have about ggxx, that’s about the changes I feel hinders her from being awesome.

That about everything I would like to see in the new ggxx series with dizzy, hopefully we can get some extra dizzy stuff outside of her normal maybe a new move or two.

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Either make 2D special cancellable by normal means, extend the range, or both. Right now the range just looks stupid with the animation. Give her her #R damage modifier back, or at least somewhere between #R and Slash. Dizzy can't currently run away effectively enough to justify her paper thin defense. Given her stun modifier I'd even go as far to say she's frailer than Chipp and Millia in certain matchups. Lazerfish moves kind of awkwardly now. I remember when AC first came out people were having problems setting up decent oki. Obviously we've come a ways from there, but I'm majorly nostalgic for #R Dizzy, so for me, it'd be nice if it was returned to how it was. FB Fish with 3 inputs. Spending a little tension for super solid oki or somewhat protected rushing should be what Diz is all about. I agree with your Airspike changes, I'm always a little shocked and confused when it disappears when I get hit. This would also allow for opportunities to get out of pressure when she has a spike out, and we all know Dizzy needs those. 2H's range needs to be extended a bit. Deciding whether to throw it into a string or not tends to be pretty nebulous. I also feel like her gatling strings don't have many options, largely due to the ranges on 2D and 2H Most people can probably tell I'm kind of yearning for #R Diz while taking the best parts of AC Diz.

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Previous post contain a somewhat balance upgrade. Now for some fun and omg she's hax.

Command throw: Even the king of broken (Eddie) gets one and his summons are clearly better than Dizzy, Dizzy demands a command grab with throw invul. Animation Wise I'm thinking of necro taking over Dizzy for 180 frames and delivery a series of air spike and it will have ground bounce allows her to do additional damage.

Overdrive: Dizzy justice anyone, I wouldn't mind something like dragon install which allows Dizzy to become justice for a short while. Of course I’m not looking at a full transformation but half, I still like her wings :keke:

Overdrive 2: One thing I keep getting annoyed at is the lack of invul in imperial ray, this OD needs a 14 frame strike invul for reversal and AA punish.

An aerial version of air spike, I have always been fond of using it in her EX version.

Overheads: its bemusing since she's an oki class character with only 5D as an overhead. Millia, Eddie, and Bridget it in their arsenal so why not Dizzy? Characters like Ino and baiken have overhead properties such as Ino hover dash and Baiken's jc JD. Dizzy needs more love.

Side Note: has people have been mentioning 2hs galtor. It's somewhat unreliable but with a short dash C.s--> 5hs --> 2hs should work on everyone.

Side Note 2:

All I ask for is a shoryuken.

DP are debateable for usefulness but having one in her arsenal would make your opponent think twice, I would rather take Baiken's Suzuran or Millia's Roll or Ino's Stroke the tree. Anything with low stance during activation are better than Dp for getting out of reversal I say.

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Most people can probably tell I'm kind of yearning for #R Diz while taking the best parts of AC Diz.

This.

Overheads: its bemusing since she's an oki class character with only 5D as an overhead. Millia, Eddie, and Bridget it in their arsenal so why not Dizzy? Characters like Ino and baiken have overhead properties such as Ino hover dash and Baiken's jc JD. Dizzy needs more love.

ESPECIALLY this.

#R Dizzy with AC and Slash improvements would be much more of an AC-style character. And goddamnit I want another ground overhead. If these things happened I would gladly drop Faust as a dual-main and just play Dizzy. And if the FRC window for icespike was increased I might never play any other fighting games ever again.

Now for completely fair and balanced additions:

-2H as an unprorated overhead. Hilarious 2H FRC > 2K/2H and 2K > 2H/2D mixup shenanigans ensue.

-FB version of the big goofy arm attack that replaces icespike in old EX Dizzy (haven't tried AC+ EX Dizzy yet). Untechable wallslam allows for 50% life followup combo.

-Gamma ray fires instantaneously without initial targeting lasers. Input simplified to 632146H. Automatically dizzies opponent on hit.

-Alternate version of grab super that places a fake hole on the ground that disappears and reappears above the opponent's head, causing them to be grabbed if they jumped and allowing for 50/50 mixup with the overdrives.

:vbang:

EDIT: Dizzy also needs a Potemkion Buster :PO:

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-Faster flaming spiral -More speed & power for Necro's anger -Faster Gamma Ray -An IK that isn't nearly impossible to use -2 new versions of flaming spiral: one rolls along the ground :p:, the other, :h: returns to her like a boomerang -Another version of Imperial Ray where she uses the impaler spikes in place of flames :cool:

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Air move (like j.D) that gives guaranteed KD

This alone would move dizzy up a few steps on the tier list. Not only would she suddenly be great abare, but she would also get a reset from her bubble loop.

Give me that and I'm happy.

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Oh yeah, definitely want that faster flaming spiral. I'm so tired of getting hit and it disappearing when its just come out. When I do dp+S, I want air defense, and I want it NOW. :mad:

Hell, why we're at it make it so all projectiles when visible, stay on the field regardless of Dizzy getting hit or not.

Air move (like j.D) that gives guaranteed KD

This alone would move dizzy up a few steps on the tier list. Not only would she suddenly be great abare, but she would also get a reset from her bubble loop.

Give me that and I'm happy.

I agree, but what would you suggest?

As far as tiering, I actually wouldn't want Dizzy to become mid or top tier. I think part of the fun of using Dizzy is that she is low-tier and we have to get creative and smart about getting around her limitations. If she gets something abusable, etc. and gets tiered higher than I don't think I would have as much pride in using the character.

Low-tier Dizzy with set-ups and planned zoning versus all-powerful Eddy who has, well just about everything. Dizzy wins - now that's something to pat ourselves on the back for. :keke:

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My list was looking like zaeris' 1st post with explanations about upgrades and whatnot, lol.

I agree with the changes though.

Also:

236H - icespike

-Combo ender of choice if applicable, chance of followup via FRC.

-85 percent forced proration, damage in followup icespike FRC combos lessened versus high damage back in #R.

-Tough FRC to hit to make safe/followup, vulnerable if whiffed without FRC.

#R icespike made for high damage loop combos. Considering the high damage potential of some chars in AC, Dizzy could use this back in her arsenal to deal damage via FRC combo.

j.2S

-Aerial move used in IAD situations to combo to a j.H>ground combo or after icespike FRC as a followup combo.

-Also in double forward IAD situations as part of mixup in corner with fish summon tactics.

-Sometimes tricky to do IAD j.2S>IAD j.2S because of timing.

-Dizzy's hitbox somewhat bigger than attack hitbox.

Application of this move helps Dizzy in rushdown applications to get into a combo via aerial option. Though sometimes the attack can be beaten out, maybe a boost in priority through a larger attack hitbox (diagonal) could help to make Dizzy less vulnerable in the moves' animation.

Most people can probably tell I'm kind of yearning for #R Diz while taking the best parts of AC Diz.

I miss #R Dizzy too...Now #R Dizzy with the best parts of AC Dizzy sounds too good:yaaay:

Air move (like j.D) that gives guaranteed KD

This alone would move dizzy up a few steps on the tier list. Not only would she suddenly be great abare, but she would also get a reset from her bubble loop.

Give me that and I'm happy.

Dizzy needs knockdowns and an aerial knockdown would be appropriate as an aerial combo ender. Bubble loop would most definitely benefit from this.

Other (fun) things that would be cool to have:

-EX Dizzy's 236H - Michael Sword

Dizzy lacks a 'physical' special move and I think this could be a welcome addition to her movelist. Good range and damage, situational AA, gives knockdown pending too many additional hits, and seemingly has good priority. Could be an alternate combo ender with possible followups with FRC/RC or even situational with special effect hit. Probably be better as an FB move though.

-214D - some sort of fish summon attack

Eddie has a D shadow attack, Venom has a D Ball Formation move, and EX Dizzy has a D fish summon that shoot out 3 bubbles. A D fish summon for normal AC Dizzy could be feasible but what would it do? There are already 2 bite fish and 2 laser fish. If anything it could be like GGX Dizzy's S fish when summoned would appear and hover up and down in front of you like a shield but when near the proximity of the opponent it would move forward to bite once at mid or high level, disappear backward, then reappear and move forward to bite mid or low level, then disappear toward you and dissipate. That or bite once in front of opponent then disappear and reappear behind opponent to bite them once and then dissipate. Either could work.

-FB Fish - 3 input fish summon FB

Could be a fish summon FB move that allows for extended rushdown into pressure/mixups. 3 inputs would probably work fine.

-Double Bubbles - FB bubble + regular bubble, both onscreen

Ky can spam FB mines and 2x CSE, Millia with HS disc + FB discs, Eddie with drills, FB drills and shadow doing stuff, Testament with webs and trees and skulls, Venom with Ball Formation, Faust with various 'stuff' (meteors, sinks, dolls, poison, etc) ...Why can't Dizzy have 2 bubbles onscreen at once? Granted she can have fish summon with 2 inputs, bubble, scythe, air pike, and possibly Imperial Ray OD onscreen at once or in some configuration with only a few of the previous listed things, 2 bubbles (1 FB and 1 regular) don't seem so bad, lol. Hell, EX Dizzy can have 4 onscreen at once (1 FB and 3 via 214D fish summon).

-Overhead Moves - oki applications

5D is the sole overhead that Dizzy has while she is on the ground versus a crouching opponent and even then that's iffy and dependent on the setup used. Like zaeris said, other 'oki' chars have them available in their arsenal so why not Dizzy? It could help her combo into knockdowns easier as an option with fish oki. Where is the love?

-Special Effects - Vacuum, Wallstick, Wallbounce, Sliding, 'Hard' Hits versus block, etc.

Some chars make good use of these attack properties; Axl with vacuum chain hits, Potemkin with vacuum 2S BS and Slide Head OTG state, and Jam with FB puffball/6H>6H wallstick followups to name a few. Dizzy already has 6P wallbounce>421S>bubble loop in corner but even that is situational at best. What else could possibly benefit her playstyle?

It'd be nice if Dizzy was a solid B-Tier again like in #R. A-Tier and higher would require refinement in her abilities and possibly some abusable/BS stuff. Ultimately it comes down to player ability to utilize character ability. Easier said than done though, lol.

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Funny how I was just talking about this yesterday with my friend. My only gripes with Dizzy is her lack of an aerial KD like Baiken, at least make it a guaranteed KD on CH or something like HOS. Another was her lack of Michael Sword... That and as for an IK, it'd be cool if she had Wings of Light instead of her current BS. I wouldn't even mind it being as useless as her current one, as long as it looked as flashy as Wings of Light. I don't really mind moving her on the tier list though, I play Dizzy because I like to play Dizzy, not because of where she is on the tier level. A few improvements would make her a more solid character, and that'd be nice, but I think I'd be playing her even if I joined during the Slash era.

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(Kinomi wo toru toki ni tsukatteta n desu, 421 S, Air spike)

One of the few changes from reload--> slash I enjoy is the ability to hold this special. It’s an excellent move to induce threat on people without experience and with a few mental challenges you can play your game fine while holding onto it as a safe measure. One of the few things I find daunting is the lost of air spike when hit, I’m fine with it disappearing during the summon stage and the holding stage but when you release the special I feel that its property shouldn’t disappear on hit allowing it to be a normal projectile. Applying Dizzy AC fish property of staying out when fully summon that allows for punishes on dry summoning but gives leeway to dizzy as an oki class character.

dunno, air pike is her move that most of the time was on screen... having it property to keep on screen when Dizzy got hit is kind of broke imo... imagine she has infinite burst gauge with it (similar idea why Bridget hs_comeback lose it hit box property when Bridget got hit) :8/:

-.Ice Spike ... guaranteed knock down would be good, but add more proration to it

-.Real FB moves like Michael Sword for practical Bubble Loop

-.Imperial Ray... give her back the start up invul, or the flame that keep going on even when she's got hit

-.Aerial Hit Box... smaler aerial hit box, so she didn't accidentaly dying when trying to iad back

with this, probably she'll be on "A" tier :v:

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Give her a new FB move which transform her into somekind of monster (she already has a lot of body part transforming moves so this new FB should suit her), has superarmor, big damage, comboable, poor recovery. Kinda like Judge Gauntlet.

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dunno, air pike is her move that most of the time was on screen... having it property to keep on screen when Dizzy got hit is kind of broke imo... imagine she has infinite burst gauge with it (similar idea why Bridget hs_comeback lose it hit box property when Bridget got hit) :8/:

Somehow there's a bit of confusion here, I clearly said

"I’m fine with it disappearing during the summon stage and the holding stage but when you release the special I feel that its property shouldn’t disappear on hit allowing it to be a normal projectile"

So have you ever try air pike release do IAD j2s get hit and the pike dissapear on hit.maybe lets say 10 frames away from the pike hitting an opponent?

And its clearly not an inifinte burst, if it goes away if u summon it or if you were hold it it will go away there too. Once release it is a weapon that doesn't disapear on hits.

While I won't go as far as calling it balance it a fine idea to me.

-.Ice Spike ... guaranteed knock down would be good, but add more proration to it

-.Real FB moves like Michael Sword for practical Bubble Loop

-.Imperial Ray... give her back the start up invul, or the flame that keep going on even when she's got hit

-.Aerial Hit Box... smaler aerial hit box, so she didn't accidentaly dying when trying to iad back

with this, probably she'll be on "A" tier

So no to prorated ice spike,bring back the frc ice spike loop combos and I totally agree with u on the imperial ray changes.

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how about normal summoning air spike? Dizzy rush down and got hit by pokes, her opponent got ch-ed by air pike, and she combo him/her to at least half of their life bar?... ugh, i still don't like the idea of it (;^_^)> lol @ Imperial Ray... i write it down just because i got jealous with Tes Nightmare Circular that keep the poison effect and do serious damage even if Tes got ch-ed during start up

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My list was looking like zaeris' 1st post with explanations about upgrades and whatnot, lol.

I agree with the changes though.

-Double Bubbles - FB bubble + regular bubble, both onscreen

Ky can spam FB mines and 2x CSE, Millia with HS disc + FB discs, Eddie with drills, FB drills and shadow doing stuff, Testament with webs and trees and skulls, Venom with Ball Formation, Faust with various 'stuff' (meteors, sinks, dolls, poison, etc) ...Why can't Dizzy have 2 bubbles onscreen at once? Granted she can have fish summon with 2 inputs, bubble, scythe, air pike, and possibly Imperial Ray OD onscreen at once or in some configuration with only a few of the previous listed things, 2 bubbles (1 FB and 1 regular) don't seem so bad, lol. Hell, EX Dizzy can have 4 onscreen at once (1 FB and 3 via 214D fish summon).

Only if Anji gets to have FB and normal butterflies at the same time without shitty 1 frame timing. :v:

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Here's an idea... Necro Install: Super Armor of Course but fast Tension Gain for Forcebreaks Undine Install: Be able to summon multiple Fish "Options" and do other ice-related attacks. Basically whereas Necro is about Defense, Undine could be offensive.

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bored today since I'm waiting for part 8 of the 23 vs 23 to be uploaded on youtube, Kazuki :yaaay: Bringing dizzy to the next level, this time with (s) range ice spike. The concept is an ice spike at close range something like Eddie (S) drill. same property applies frc but untechable time frames on hit is lesser than far version of ice spike. Stuff that will make dizzy's dreams possible and broken but will ultimate make life easier. (s) ice spike frc goes into Tk bubble pop or dash Air spike IAD jhs bubble release. Non- frc goes into f.s slash (HS/far) ice spike follow up. EDIT: ashamed I spelt kazuki-sama name wrong.

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here's something how about when she's summonning she's not in counter hit mode and even if the opponent hits her the fish stay's out. Too broken you say, its not like there's another character who does that( looks at Testament). -More active frames on 2HS -A little bit more defense -Better Tension gain -Force break Fish that takes several hits to destroy and does 1-3 different things you know like K,S,K or K,P,HS ect. -A Dizzy Buster with twice the range of Pot Buster and 3 times the damage:)

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