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kaeru

[CP] Combo Creation

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Hey guys! This is a little something I do for myself every game. I decided to share it with you guys this time around. It might spark some interesting discussion. I actually don't think most of you will find this interesting at all, but it might be worth it anyway.

This is an objective-as-possible list of Bang's normals and some specials, and how to prioritize them when combo building. I will also give a brief example of how to use it.
 

  • Crush Trigger, 1000, P2 100
  • j.623B, 1300, P2 92
  • 3C, 880, P2 94
  • j.4B, 840, P2 94
  • 6B, 780, P2 92
  • 5C, 760, P2 92
  • j.C, 600, P2 92
  • (w/4seal) 2D or 6D, 1065, P2 87
  • j.2C, 650, P2 89
  • 5B, 640, P2 89
  • 2B, 620, P2 89
  • 6A, 540, P2 89
  • 2D or 6D, 710, P2 87
  • (w/4seal) j.D, 945, P2 84
  • (w/4seal) 5D, 840, P2 84
  • 6C, 820, P2 84
  • 623B, 1300, P2 72
  • j.B, 560, P2 85
  • j.236A or j.236B or j.236D, 300, P2 90
  • 2C, 750, P2 79
  • 5A or j.A, 300, P2 77
  • 2A, 300, P2 75
  • j.236C, 300. P2 75

This list doesn't need to be taken too seriously, but it can help when deciding which move to prioritize over another. For example when you have the choice between 5B or 2B or both in a combo, it can help in making that decision.

How it works:
When you have the choice between two moves, always use the one higher on the list. The earlier and more often you use moves from the top of the list, the better and more optimal your combo will be.

Example:
You can see from the list that 2C is a horrible move that sucks the very life out of your combo. Naturally if you can fit more higher-up moves fin BEFORE the 2C in your combo, you can tack on some nice additional damage.

Consider the combo: 5C > 2C > 623B > etc..
Many moves are higher-up on the list compared to 2C. If we can fit any of them in before the 2C, we can add damage to the combo.
That means that: 5C > 6A > 2C > 623B will always get you more damage.

This might seem useless to a lot of people because most of us tend to just learn a combo that we are told is good or that Japanese players use and we're done with it. For anyone trying to experiment this list will probably be really useful (and I know many of us are in the lab experimenting with the weird stuff).

Notes:

  • Crush Trigger is the ultimate combo damage tool. It has a P2 of 100 and adds 1000 damage. Finding a way to use crush trigger as early as possible in a combo is definitely worthwhile.
  • 2C is really bad... REALLY bad. Using 3C Rapid Cancel in a combo that will kill and you have meter to burn is an option.
  • The list is not 100% perfect because there are times when the raw damage of a move outweighs the poor P2, like ground super crash. I've tried to rank these moves appropriately.
  • Poison nail is low on the list only because of it's effect on the entire combo. It does 800 damage and that does need to be taken into account. Speaking of raw potential only, though, whether you poison at the beginning or at the end doesn't change that 800 damage.
  • This list has absolutely nothing to do with choosing a good starter for your combo. That is something else entirely.
  • I do not expect this list to be a revelation to anyone, it's just something i do every game and I am sharing it this time around to see if it's worthwhile.

Feel free to discuss !

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Isn't this information on the wiki already? I guess it's nice to have a compilation for people not feeling like parsing the wiki. Maybe we should add it there.

While damage and proration do matter, basing which move to do solely on those and ignoring other properties such as hitstun, pushback and combo routes isn't really the best way to go. Take 2C for example, sure, it's not really good proration-wise.

It is however the only way to get a 2B to connect after a 623B. The way hitstun of 623B works makes 2C necessary for the 2B pickup in the corner which means it's actually a great move which allows us to go for extended crouching corner combos. 5C>6A>2C>623B will always demand you to microdash 2B after it while if you just do 5C>2C>623B you won't need to microdash 2B as long as you're as close as possible in the corner when you land the 5C (except for Platinum, who is so small she needs the microdash regardless). Also there's situations where adding 6A will make the 2C whiff, in those cases also you don't wanna go for that 6A.

Ultimately, knowing proration is nice and checking on these kinds of things is always useful but it's not everything that's needed to figure out what you should be doing.

Oh and as for Bang's CT, it's sadly one of the least practical in regards to using it early in a combo, you have to land some kind of heavy counter hit for that to be the case and even then you can't confirm it, you have to commit to it before you know you got the counter hit or you have to RC a 3C to confirm into it, making it a 75 meter investment. It's not all bad though since you can add it in the end of a FRKZ combo and CTs also have minimum damage too, which helps ensure that OD combo will kill. The sole exception to this being 3C fatal combos, which allow you to do stuff like 5B>5C>CT and do a ton of damage as a result.

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Isn't this information on the wiki already? I guess it's nice to have a compilation for people not feeling like parsing the wiki. Maybe we should add it there.

Yes it is, this only puts them in an order of optimization. It's nothing that isn't already on the wiki.

While damage and proration do matter, basing which move to do solely on those and ignoring other properties such as hitstun, pushback and combo routes isn't really the best way to go. Take 2C for example, sure, it's not really good proration-wise.

It is however the only way to get a 2B to connect after a 623B. The way hitstun of 623B works makes 2C necessary for the 2B pickup in the corner which means it's actually a great move which allows us to go for extended crouching corner combos. 5C>6A>2C>623B will always demand you to microdash 2B after it while if you just do 5C>2C>623B you won't need to microdash 2B as long as you're as close as possible in the corner when you land the 5C (except for Platinum, who is so small she needs the microdash regardless). Also there's situations where adding 6A will make the 2C whiff, in those cases also you don't wanna go for that 6A.

This is exactly what I meant by "most people will not find this useful". Combos only work because of the hitstun that makes them flow, that's normal. 2C is an integral part of most combos. All this list does is say "if you can find some weird way to skip 2C, you will save a ton of proration". Will that produce a better combo? That depends how good the moves that come after are. Swapping 2C for 3C rapid cancel adds damage. It's not useful because it's not worth the meter. Knowing that it does, however, is useful.

Adding 6A before 2C in a combo, again, is just informative. Going for a combo that does more damage is something you decide to do or not to do. If it's going to whiff, don't do it. If it's going to work, why not do it?

Ultimately, knowing proration is nice and checking on these kinds of things is always useful but it's not everything that's needed to figure out what you should be doing.

As i mentioned in the first post, I don't expect this to aid anyone in terms of what they should be doing. It's only a tool for those who want to come up with creative combos. Perhaps the title is misleading.

Oh and as for Bang's CT, it's sadly one of the least practical in regards to using it early in a combo, you have to land some kind of heavy counter hit for that to be the case and even then you can't confirm it, you have to commit to it before you know you got the counter hit or you have to RC a 3C to confirm into it, making it a 75 meter investment. It's not all bad though since you can add it in the end of a FRKZ combo and CTs also have minimum damage too, which helps ensure that OD combo will kill. The sole exception to this being 3C fatal combos, which allow you to do stuff like 5B>5C>CT and do a ton of damage as a result.

This is as far as we know until someone figures out something new. This is to help in that.

Consider the combo:

5B > 2B > 6C > iad, j.B > j.C, dash, 5C > CT > etc

this is an excellent combo that makes good use of crush trigger before any really bad moves rob the combo of it's proration.

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