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LegendaryRath

[P4AU] Teddie Gameplay Discussion

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Having played a little, a bit of information on Teddie's new supers:

 

What Will Come Out?:

A version: Throws the next three items in the 5D/j.D series

B version: Throws the next three items in the 2D/j.2D series

SB version: Throws the next two items from both series at the same time, for a total of four. This also means it's possible to get duplicate items, so you could have things like double Amagiya Buckets or Key Scooters. However, Kintoki-Douji's gauge recovers slower.

 

In all cases, Kintoki-Douji can't throw items til the gauge empties. Teddie can't do any Persona moves until Kintoki-Douji throws his last item.

 

Nihil Hand:

A version: Longest reach, 400 damage on initial hit

B version: Short reach, 800 damage on initial hit

SB version: Shortest reach, 1200 damage on initial hit

 

In all cases, pressing A or B normally as giant Teddie is charging up will do a hit that wallsticks. Pressing it at the right time (about 1-3f when the ! appears) results in a more powerful hit that does 4000 base damage and wallbounces twice before the wallstick. I wouldn't really rely on landing it online.

 

Both supers cannot be cancelled in any way, even using OMC.

 

At point blank range, both missiles of 236236CD will combo into each other without additional input, and can combo into Circus Bear D. Same goes for the air version if Teddie is right above them.

 

214214CD always appears from the side Teddie is closer to. However, it seems impossible to combo off it, as Teddie doesn't recover until he touches the ground.

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I spent the night screwing around with Naniga deru Kuma (236236A/B) and found a few neat things.  Lets say you're in a standard first player position facing right at midscreen.  If you do a j.B off a combo or solo and DI (directional influence) forward, you can activate the Naniga behind the opponent without reversing the input direction, the persona throws the item in the direction of your original position.  For some reason then, you automatically airturn and the game suctions them in the direction of the persona (behind them) and you land again facing right.  It's a confusing crossup opportunity.

 

The downside of the this is that you lose access to the items the persona just threw, except if your item is on buckets.  In this case one bucket will end up hitting them on a standard 5AAA, sweep and at the end of the combo they're confused.

 

Another good use of Naniga Deru is midscreen, with your item on the rage drink.  It also throws out the stereo and the pinwheel, but the pinwheel isn't used for the setup I'm describing here.  Do 5AAA > j.B (DI forward) > Naniga Deru without doing the crossup thing above.  Once you land, do 2AA and push them into the rage drink.  Do 5AAA > sweep, they land on the stereo which is now active.  For some reason they are still in rage once they tech (!).  This allows an easy reset with a meaty 5A into a full punish.

 

I'll try to get these two setups recorded soon and share.  I also need to see test how practical these setups are in an actual game.

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Some other stuff I've noticed:

 

After doing a D normal, you can press D again to have Kintoki-Douji throw an additional item without disappearing. Obviously enough though it means he's on-screen for longer. You can't switch from 5D to 2D lists this way; going 5D > 2D will throw two items from the 5D list.

If Teddie is in awakening, his autocombo ends with Nihil Hand instead of Tomahawk. However, you don't have the option of timing the charged attack - the game automatically inputs it for you, like Yosuke's auto-tracking on his autocombo Garudyne.

I was wrong about SB Circus Bear - if you're right next to the opponent, or fullscreen, assuming they don't move, the second hit will miss.

B and SB Puppeteddie wallbounce on CH.

 

Talking a bit about Shadow Teddie:

 

S. Teddie, to me, feels visibly worse than regular Teddie. His damage is notably lower, and even his complicated combos can't match up to anything S.Chie/Mitsuru can do. I've seen combos exceeding 8k, but they require 2C FCs and corner. He has worse corner carry, especially since you're more likely to save SP for Shadow Fury rather than use it on the midscreen corner carry combo, and he doesn't have P4A Teddie's OMB combos or the 2C FC 5AA > 5B loops due to 5B no longer being dash cancellable. He can do some annoying neutral things like setting up What Will Come Out? and Circus Bear twice in a full Shadow Fury to try to panic the opponent, I suppose.

 

His advantages are few, but I guess they're there; he can knock a grounded opponent into the air with 5AA > 2B. He can Shadow Fury mid-air combo into air-AoA to bounce the enemy all the way back down onto the floor (and you can then combo using something like 236C or (j.)236236C/D). You can inflict multiple statuses in the corner.

 

I'm going to experiment with him some more, though.

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Teddie feels a bit weird to me in this game. I mean, I just recently decided to make him my main after dropping Akihiko, but in Ultimax he doesn't seem as good as he was in the original Arena. Maybe I'm missing something here. One thing I don't like is the fact that Kintoki-Douji is out longer when throwing out items. The beauty of my Teddie gameplay in P4A was keeping the pressure on (and annoying :P) my opponents with items. Now I can't do that in Ultimax because Kintoki-Douji stays out longer, thus, he'll get hit more easily. Really wish the 30th would hurry up so I can get my copy of P4AU and experiment more with Teddie. I love the variety the character has, but I need to adpat to his new style of play in Ultimax.

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5D/2D and the DP nerf are Teddie's biggest hits. Fatal Recovery on Bearscrew as well and missile disappearing if he gets hit, so overall it does feel like his neutral game got toned down slightly. Still, aside from that overall Teddie feels stronger - Nihil Hand gives him a much needed reversal and Persona-less combo ender, his corner carry is stronger, and his item order takes some getting used to but the Key Bike is very good and the rest are at least decent in neutral. His combos are slightly harder now but not overly so.

 

Incidentally, played around today and found a solution to Teddie's challenge 25 (use Nihil Hand three times), arguably slightly easier than the official method.

 

Start by putting yourself with your back against the corner. Then do the notations:

 

2C 214214B 5AA 5B 5C 2B OMB AC 5AA 214214B 214214B

 

For the first two 214214Bs, you want to hit Yu as high as possible without triggering the perfect hit; this causes the wallstick to last longer and give you more time to pick up with 5A. You want to do an Evasive Action (AC) after the OMB to put yourself back against the corner again. After that it's fairly simple.

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5D/2D and the DP nerf are Teddie's biggest hits. Fatal Recovery on Bearscrew as well and missile disappearing if he gets hit, so overall it does feel like his neutral game got toned down slightly. Still, aside from that overall Teddie feels stronger - Nihil Hand gives him a much needed reversal and Persona-less combo ender, his corner carry is stronger, and his item order takes some getting used to but the Key Bike is very good and the rest are at least decent in neutral. His combos are slightly harder now but not overly so.

 

Incidentally, played around today and found a solution to Teddie's challenge 25 (use Nihil Hand three times), arguably slightly easier than the official method.

 

Start by putting yourself with your back against the corner. Then do the notations:

 

2C 214214B 5AA 5B 5C 2B OMB AC 5AA 214214B 214214B

 

For the first two 214214Bs, you want to hit Yu as high as possible without triggering the perfect hit; this causes the wallstick to last longer and give you more time to pick up with 5A. You want to do an Evasive Action (AC) after the OMB to put yourself back against the corner again. After that it's fairly simple.

I found an easier combo for challenge 25 (I don't know if this was the replay they showed after you complete it, as i didn't check after i did it this way); With Teddie in the corner, Nihil Hand (make sure to hit Yu as high as possible), 5A, 5B, 5C, dash cancel, 2B (while Teddie is in the corner), Nihil hand (hit Yu as high as possible), Nihil hand. 

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IMO, this character has stayed at about the same power level.  Remember that holding the D button will make the persona projectile invulnerable.  This is more important now that he stays out longer.  The biggest nerf to him was taking away the backdash cancellable trait on 5B, meaning you need to be more selective in using it.

 

Having access to two different items at once is really powerful.  Also, the new items are really strong.  The bike key specifically will knock them out of any pressure they're putting on you and give you a free 'in' to start your pressure.  If they try to jump it, you can do a preemptive 2B, which is backdash cancellable in case they block.

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Personally I don't think 5B losing backdash was too bad; it's still cancellable into 2D Teddie on block, it still gets punished by rolls with or without that ability, and now 2B and 2C can be backdashed. We probably gained more than we lost.

 

236236A/B existing is a bit annoying at times when I'm being panicky and mashing quarter-circles, but overall I think Teddie has more tools, situational or not, than he did in the first game, which is always good.

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A lot of characters have  moves that easily break Mr.Douji while throwing items in neutral. Is there a better way to trow items safely from a full screen position. In the mid-screen, I feel fine throwing items, because I can easily punish attempts to break my persona. Secondly, are there any cool item combos/ setups that anybody knows about with the new items, because in the old game there were some that I really liked.

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Throwing items is more risky now, since Kintoki-Douji stays out longer.  Against characters like Chie and Akihiko, you should be fine. That said, if you really need a 'safe way' to throw out items, super jump j.2C > j.D is relatively hard to punish. Only Yukiko, Junpei, Aigis and Kanji can punish that from full screen without meter reliably.

 

As for the new items, Motorcycle Key is arguably the best due to its great use in neutral. It causes spin state, so if the opponent isn't aware to tech it you can combo into a throw from it, but it's not really worth it that much to do so. The blue robot hits low, so you could do a pseudo-unblockable with AoA, but it's pretty odd timing to do so especially in a blockstring.

 

There'll likely be more discoveries in the months ahead.

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I'm finding 2A to be more useful in this new Persona version.  Specifically when some characters (thinking Yosuke) run right at you to get into their 5A range, you can pre-empt them with this kind of as a "stay out" move with less recovery than your other tools.  In some cases I've even knocked people out of jumping attacks with 2A.  I'm not sure if this is just me or the people I'm playing against, but it seems better.  Any other experiences?

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I'm finding 2A to be more useful in this new Persona version.  Specifically when some characters (thinking Yosuke) run right at you to get into their 5A range, you can pre-empt them with this kind of as a "stay out" move with less recovery than your other tools.  In some cases I've even knocked people out of jumping attacks with 2A.  I'm not sure if this is just me or the people I'm playing against, but it seems better.  Any other experiences?

 I dunno about knocking people out of attacks. But yeah, I love using 2A for stagger pressure.

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A lot of characters have  moves that easily break Mr.Douji while throwing items in neutral. Is there a better way to trow items safely from a full screen position. In the mid-screen, I feel fine throwing items, because I can easily punish attempts to break my persona. Secondly, are there any cool item combos/ setups that anybody knows about with the new items, because in the old game there were some that I really liked.

 

You can hold D down to make the persona projectile invulnerable.  Also the bat is a good tool to punish them hitting ht persona.

 

On item setups, just initial ideas:

 

- Hopping robot:  offhand I don't see a lot of synergy with other items.  You can use it to make unsafe things safe and create crossup opportunities

 

- Bike Key:  This is extremely strong on its own.  They're going to try to jump it so run up 2B.  If you whiff and they try to hit you, they get hit by the bike

 

- Samurai robot:  AoA was mentioned.  Works well with vanish ball, hiding its movement and rage drink / mystery food X.

 

- Stereo: I see the most creative setups for this item.  Drop it in the corner off j.B oki.  Cycle through the next two items, thunder drum and then buckets while they're in blockstun.  Buckets in the corner is great, nuff said.  If stereo hits for whatever reason, they'll get thunder drummed and then maybe confused.  Bait DP hard and look for them to get out before the stereo goes off by jumping (use 2B or 2C) or by rolling, which you can punish with a throw.  Stereo also is going to work well with rage drink if you can cycle through enough items - electric drum and buckets on an enraged opponent in the corner is pretty godlike.

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Thought I'd jump into the discussion

Overall I like the new Teddie and he still feels very similar to his old incarnation and has more tools lock people down. His new A string is wonderful for hit confirming moves and pushing people around the stage which is a nice trade off though it is really unsafe. Not sure if I can confirm this but did they make it easeir to do a j.a j.b j.a string in the air? I find myself landing that much more in P4AU.

 

 

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Yes. Teddie's combo rate was buffed, so the chain is easier to do now. It's a staple for extending combos and corner carry off some anti-airs, or moves like 5C. Shadow Teddie can also do 5AA > j.A > j.B > j.A > j.A > j.B as well.

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I'm not the only one getting Item super when trying to confirm a bearscrew really fast right? Mainly it's after a super jump because the game saves the input to a quarter circle motion. And if so do you think Arcsys could flip the input for nihil hand and item super around? Because when it happens I drop my combo and the opponent hit's me on wake up and I lose 3 items and time that I can't throw out any more items. 

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I'm not the only one getting Item super when trying to confirm a bearscrew really fast right? Mainly it's after a super jump because the game saves the input to a quarter circle motion. And if so do you think Arcsys could flip the input for nihil hand and item super around? Because when it happens I drop my combo and the opponent hit's me on wake up and I lose 3 items and time that I can't throw out any more items. 

 

I do the same thing sometimes.  It's just a case of screwing up inputs.  Make the best of it if happens.  Sometimes new setups are found on accident.

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I want to get some thoughts down I've had on corner pressure.  Lets say you finish a combo with j.B (or sweep) into j.C to freeze them in the corner on wakeup.  You run up to them to continue pressure.  Here are your options.

 

1)  Throw:  I think this is your strongest option as it does the most damage and keeps them in the corner either if it connects or if it techs.  Beats rolls, a blocking opponent, and sometimes mashing

2)  j.B:  Do this to beat throw tech.  You get a counter hit combo in the corner

3)  iad back j.C:    this beats DP for a lot of characters.  Other characters have DPs that can catch you.  Will need to lab this

4)  AoA: - I don't like this option since it doesn't crossup in the corner and its very reactable.  A few items can push the opponent near you if they're thrown of the screen, but that's situational

5)  2B:  -  In case they jump.  This beats the option select mentioned here.  You can backdash cancel it on block, but it will whiff on a crouching opponent unless you're really close.  This gives them a few extra frames to DP

6)  item drop:  -  A gutsy call b/c of the startup frames, but allows powerful setups.  Some items might also be able to beat the option select linked above such as firework or ice, but will need to lab this.  This option is better if you do j.B and don't go for the j.C.

7)  2A: -  2A into microdash grab can be effective

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So, when playing against Teddie what's the best way to react to raining buckets followed by Circus Bear/SB Circus Bear?

 

My roommate has been doing this against me with S.Teddie, throwing out 3 items including buckets then SB Circus Bear when I'm pinned down. The only thing I can think of trying is to get close and lay on the pressure when his SP gets close to 100, but I play Yukari which makes that super dangerous.

 

Any thoughts?

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So, when playing against Teddie what's the best way to react to raining buckets followed by Circus Bear/SB Circus Bear?

 

My roommate has been doing this against me with S.Teddie, throwing out 3 items including buckets then SB Circus Bear when I'm pinned down. The only thing I can think of trying is to get close and lay on the pressure when his SP gets close to 100, but I play Yukari which makes that super dangerous.

 

Any thought?

If you have 50 meter you can guard roll during block strings, just make sure you have enough time to jump over Teddie Circus. If he throws out the bucket and you can move, run towards and jump over Teddie so the buckets go behind you while you run forward. If he does SP Teddie Circus and you can move just remember the order is always Teddie Circus C then D. If you need help staying above the super when you can move do Air dash over the first then air turn and dash over the 2nd one. You can also roll though Teddie Circus but only when it's the C version but even then it's risky. If you have any moves that can keep you in the air the do it as long as it won't drop you to the ground super fast.

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So, when playing against Teddie what's the best way to react to raining buckets followed by Circus Bear/SB Circus Bear?

 

My roommate has been doing this against me with S.Teddie, throwing out 3 items including buckets then SB Circus Bear when I'm pinned down. The only thing I can think of trying is to get close and lay on the pressure when his SP gets close to 100, but I play Yukari which makes that super dangerous.

 

Any thoughts?

That's such a classic Teddie strategy. As mentioned before rolling works but is risky. I'm not sure about Yukari but few characters such as Akihiko and Kanji can also DP during the buckets and be immune to Teddie Circuis (also works againt Barrle)

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So, when playing against Teddie what's the best way to react to raining buckets followed by Circus Bear/SB Circus Bear?

 

My roommate has been doing this against me with S.Teddie, throwing out 3 items including buckets then SB Circus Bear when I'm pinned down. The only thing I can think of trying is to get close and lay on the pressure when his SP gets close to 100, but I play Yukari which makes that super dangerous.

 

Any thoughts?

 

If you can anticipate the buckets, you can super jump into them blocking and you'll be trapped in the air blocking buckets out of the range of the Teddie circus.  If you are forced to choose between the buckets and the circus, pick the buckets.  The circus does too much damage.

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Can we get a Skype group going?? My friend is in a really good Adachi one, and he's learning a lot. I wanna learn too!

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There isn't really a lot of Teddie activity, so I don't know how much interest there would be, but if there are enough people wanting to get one going it'd be worth a shot.

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