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LegendaryRath

[P4AU] Teddie Gameplay Discussion

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I've been posting in the Newbies Unite topic & joining in the Fri beginner's room (only Teddie main there, I think). Teddie's my best character, and I hope to improve with him.  I've done fighting games for many years, but haven't had much time put into this one yet.  Read a ton of posts on the site, including the Teddie section, and was wondering:

 

If I'm overwhelmed by the number of combos posted, are there a few key ones you'd suggest that I should know & can actually pull off?

I guess a sub or two is OK.  Maybe Labyrs.  I should ask the same thing in that section...

 

Thanks!

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I've been posting in the Newbies Unite topic & joining in the Fri beginner's room (only Teddie main there, I think). Teddie's my best character, and I hope to improve with him.  I've done fighting games for many years, but haven't had much time put into this one yet.  Read a ton of posts on the site, including the Teddie section, and was wondering:

 

If I'm overwhelmed by the number of combos posted, are there a few key ones you'd suggest that I should know & can actually pull off?

I guess a sub or two is OK.  Maybe Labyrs.  I should ask the same thing in that section...

 

Thanks!

If there's one thing Teddie has to do a lot more in Ultimax then in Arena is using the auto combo. Not because it's a scrub tactic, it's all he really has outside the corner. This does lead to some of his best stuff though. For instance, one combo you will want to learn is auto combo into air missile C corner combo. All it takes is for you to hold down the C button, sweep the opponent, then release the button before they hit the ground. From this alone you can get up to about 4k of damage. Anti air into Teddie's new air combo route is also an easy one and leads into item oki. Catch the opponent with the anti air and go into J.A, J.B, J.A, jump and do J.A, J.B, J.D or J.2D. It helps set up pressure on the opponent depending on the item that was thrown out. I'd also recommend doing the Teddie challenges as they always helped me find new combos or just practice the character in general. 

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Yeah, I do the full autocombo sometimes, or AAA>236 or 214 A,  AAA>sweep> stuff, AAA>jABA>j236>j236,236 C/D (missing it or it not inputting sometimes).

 

The combo you mentioned sounds good, though.  You hold down C, after AAA?  And the anti air is 2B, right (just to be certain)?

 

Sees the best super to use in combos is Tomahawk, but N. Hand could be possible too.  Item super is OK, but Circus Bear usually requires a certain setup I guess.

 

Margaret can be a tough matchup for me.  Read through the matchup section for any others...  Thanks!

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Generally avoid ending combos with Puppeteddie unless you're using the Tomahawk to continue the combo in the corner or if you really want the Poison damage (if the opponent is in Awakening, for instance). Puppeteddie doesn't leave you in a good position to continue pressure because of the distance between you and your opponent afterwards as well as the recovery time.

 

Use Tomahawk to maintain pressure and combos, corner carry, and keep your opponents in the corner. Nihil Hand for damage (especially after a OMB). Mystery Teddie SP is generally limited in use (has some use in midscreen combos, or if you want to accelerate the item order for whatever reason). Circus Bear is usually for certain setups (if you're forcing the opponent to block an active item like Oil Drum). It is possible to link a combo to Circus Bear (see his challenge 24), but you don't see it too often in high level play otherwise.

 

Teddie's worst matchups (IMO) are Yu, Mitsuru, Minazuki, and Yosuke, in no particular order. Margaret can be tough, but she's especially vulnerable to rolls during her pressure and Teddie has the best roll in the game, and her defense isn't exactly stellar.

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I've been posting in the Newbies Unite topic & joining in the Fri beginner's room (only Teddie main there, I think). Teddie's my best character, and I hope to improve with him.  I've done fighting games for many years, but haven't had much time put into this one yet.  Read a ton of posts on the site, including the Teddie section, and was wondering:

 

If I'm overwhelmed by the number of combos posted, are there a few key ones you'd suggest that I should know & can actually pull off?

I guess a sub or two is OK.  Maybe Labyrs.  I should ask the same thing in that section...

 

Thanks!

 

I made an answer to this in the combo section because that's really where it belongs.  Teddie is a sort of overwhelming characters, but it's not b/c of the combos.  It's more because of keeping track of what items you're on for both 5D and 2D, as well as using those in spacing against each different character to create mixups.  That mixup game is strong, it just takes a lot of experience.

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Another weekend using this character a lot has brought some improvement, but I still have beginner-ish questions:

 

What do you do if the opponent is hit by an oil drum or frozen in ice, etc.?  If you can Circus Bear or SB N.Hand, that seems good.  If I don't have the SP, AAA> 236 A>Toss some items?

Not sure what is best thing to do is given that huge window to attack. Guess I don't want to drop an overly complicated combo online... Thanks for any tips.

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If Dry Ice, best starter is arguably 5C > dash > j.A > j.B > j.A > 2B > j.A > j.A > j.B/j.236A. Nets you about 3k+. AoA combo also works if you're close enough to hit them before they break out.

 

You have a lot of options with Oil Drum, but I'd say experiment.

 

I'd generally advise against using SB Nihil Hand unless 1. You really need the extra damage or 2. You're using Shadow Teddie. SB Nihil Hand adds very little extra damage for 25 SP and it has the shortest range, so you have the highest chance of dropping it as well. Save the 25 meter unless you need it to kill.

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If Dry Ice, best starter is arguably 5C > dash > j.A > j.B > j.A > 2B > j.A > j.A > j.B/j.236A. Nets you about 3k+. AoA combo also works if you're close enough to hit them before they break out.

 

You have a lot of options with Oil Drum, but I'd say experiment.

 

I'd generally advise against using SB Nihil Hand unless 1. You really need the extra damage or 2. You're using Shadow Teddie. SB Nihil Hand adds very little extra damage for 25 SP and it has the shortest range, so you have the highest chance of dropping it as well. Save the 25 meter unless you need it to kill.

Cool, that helps.  Thanks.

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I swear every time I go into the lab I find some fun shit. I just made Nihil Hand go halfway across the stage and all it takes is Teddie Warp D and input Nihil Hand as soon as you can when you warp out of the Tv. The same physics apply like doing warp into 2D Teddie, however, when the super flash appears, Teddie is still sliding towards the opponent with the momentum of the warp. What this is is pretty much we freeze the opponent with the flash and approach the opponent at the same time; and you get the small distance Teddie travels with the Nihil Hand too with all the invinsibility along with it. One thing that happened too is I tested this with Narukami's super and I found 2 things. 1) We push Narukami away from Izanagi so we won't get hit by his super because we're too far away from the beam and 2) If you input Nihil hand on the first frame you can do anything after warp, Teddie doesn't get the momentum from the warp slide. I also tested this with the rest of his supers and both Item super and Teddie Circus keep the momentum while Missile stops momentum. Maybe Teddie Circus under the opponent (if the jumped) will change which way Teddie comes with C or D version as an auto correct to face the right way, I haven't tested it. I can't wait to try this on a zoner and see their reactions to this because it's so beautiful to watch. Also the fire effect Teddie does stops where the Nihil Hand was activated so if you try this and you see the fire next to the TV's and your not in it then you did this trick right.

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Found this out a few weeks ago, and not sure why it took me so long, but you can buffer an additional item throw while the persona is on the screen and while the persona is still in the initial throw animation.  The timing of it is the same as if you would mash D three times, but just omit the second mash.  So its like D, ..., D.  The second item throw also gives the persona some projectile invulnerability.  IMO, there's not much reason not to do this unless you want to save a particular item for later.

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That depends. do you mean reset hit or combo hit?

 

Oil Drum and Amagiya Buckets are the best way to land Circus Bear in neutral. Inflicting Shock using Lightning Drum is also a decent way to pull off a reset, as they have to then time a roll or DP. Yukiko and Yosuke can easily get out of that though.

 

As for combo hits, the most common way is using a held mid-air Tomahawk. Teddie's challenge 24 is a good example. You can also do it with Smart Bomb. Circus Bear does scale rather notably, so Nihil Hand might be a better finisher.

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Oil Drum and Amagiya Buckets are the best way to land Circus Bear in neutral. Inflicting Shock using Lightning Drum is also a decent way to pull off a reset, as they have to then time a roll or DP. Yukiko and Yosuke can easily get out of that though.

 

As for combo hits, the most common way is using a held mid-air Tomahawk. Teddie's challenge 24 is a good example. You can also do it with Smart Bomb. Circus Bear does scale rather notably, so Nihil Hand might be a better finisher.

Unless Yukiko's start up on DP has invun. she can't DP through it anymore. I haven't played Yukiko for months and they didn't time the startup cause they were still doing last game stuff that worked so i don't know. I also found when doing random Shadow Teddie stuff is if you do sweep, berserk, then go for Teddie Circus D, they will get hit by it if them tech as soon as possible. The closer to the opponent the more likely they will get hit by Teddie Circus. I guess Teddie can one more cancel to do it too but that's 100 meter out the window. As for a finisher super, unless you can time perfect frame Nihil Hand alot, don't end combos with Circus cause Nihil hand will do more and is more reliable. Only go for it if 1. you have enough time for it to combo and 2. if you can't perfect frame Nihil hand.

 

Edit: Nevermind Yukiko's DP startup does beat Circus Teddie.

Edited by MegaGrandTale

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Here's an alternate solution to Shadow Teddie's #30 (do Bearscrew ten times):

 

Official solution notation:

236A CH > 236A > Shadow Frenzy > 236A > j.236A > j.236236[C] > 236B > j.236B > land > 236236[D] > jc.> j.236A > j.236236[C] > jc > j.236A > j.236236[D] > j.236A > ]D[ > j.236A

 

Alternate solution:

236A CH > 236A > Shadow Frenzy > 236A > j.236A > j.236236[C] > 236B > j.236B > land > 236236[D] > jc. > j.236A > j.236236[D] > j.236A > ]D[ > 236B > j.236A

 

If people have easier solutions feel free to post them.

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2.0 Shadow Teddie corner combos, courtesy of Moja:

 

236C FC > 236B > 5B > 236D > 2A+B > Shadow Frenzy > 5AA > j.236B > j.214A > j.236236[C] > 5C > 5AA > j.214A > j.236A > j.236236[D] > 214A > j.236A > ]D[ > 214214AB

 

8052 damage, +Poison (3 times)

 

236C FC > 236B > 5B > sj.C > j.B > j.A > land > 2A+B > Shadow Frenzy > 5AA > j.236B > j.214A > j.236236[C] > 5C > 5AA > j.214A > j.236A > j.236236[D] > 214A > j.236A > ]D[ > 214214AB

 

8238 damage, +Poison (3 times)

 

As rare as it is to actually land 236C in the corner, it's probable that it can be adjusted to other Teddievision versions as well with some tweaking.

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I'm starting to sort through the 2.0 Teddie footage.  Here's a really neat tech trap:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9I8hOLKOgY&t=50m52s

Nice find however i've been using that since week 2 of Arena. That did 3.1k damage and could probably lead to more damage if you hold down the missile, i'd say around 5-6K damage with an extra 50 meter?

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I asked Minto's (4th at the last ARC Revo so one of the 3 Teddie in top 4) opinion about 2.0 Teddie here and like we could have guessed, he also believes that he's pretty bad.

Would like to point out however that he only plays normal Teddie and I'm pretty sure STeddie will be ranked higher in the TL after a while.

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Most 2.0 tier lists right now have S.Teddie ranked just as high if not higher. The item nerfs really did hurt Teddie more than expected, since it just exarcebated his already existing flaws. 5AA having a limited jump cancel window also made his iffy mixup even worse.

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Most 2.0 tier lists right now have S.Teddie ranked just as high if not higher. The item nerfs really did hurt Teddie more than expected, since it just exarcebated his already existing flaws. 5AA having a limited jump cancel window also made his iffy mixup even worse.

There wasn't a need to nerf the items again at all. We don't have an overhead (well we do but it's not reliable or abusable), we don't have high low mix ups (hell we don't even have mix ups since people can just grab us out of the air + the opponent needs slow reactions to even get hit by them), we don't have moves that are 5ft disjointed attacks (5A and J.A just extend are hurtbox more then applying pressure), and sometimes we can't even get the opponent out of the corner cause all they have to do is block low against everything. The items are our way to deal with BS 5A's from most of the tough MUs we have (I.E Sho and Mitsuru). I can agree on the Bike change but everything else just doesn't make any sense at all, considering Teddie was hit the most with nerfs to begin with. What we got doesn't equal to what we lost in my opinion.

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I thought it would have made more sense to make all items disappear once teddie gets hit, but instead they opted to keep the cheapness while decreasing their power.  The nerf to ice is probably the one that bothers me the most because that item is mostly worthless now.

 

The mixup game I generally try to apply is 2A/throw/air backdash j.C.  If they start OSing, you can 2B > backdash on block.  A lot of the people I play are really good at stuffing j.B with air grab, so I use that more sparingly.  We might have to regularly reach into the gimmick bag to beat some of the higher tiers now, so that's something I'm probably going to be working on.

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I've noticed a few Japanese players incorporating 2C into their blockstrings very sparingly. It's not a bad option since it beats mashers and you have quite a few cancels from it: dash, backdash, and specials (so Teddievision to keep distance or Bearscrew to keep pressure if you have 50 meter). You can also go 2C > 2C to have Kintoki-Douji attack from the same position, or just D to have him throw an item from the air.

 

Neutral is really tough now though especially with many items being destructible or disappearing on hit (which makes a lot of them pretty hard to use in a defensive position). The Mitsuru matchup is pretty rough now from what I can tell.

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