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Oiboi

Zappa Vs. Holy Order Sol

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In my opinion, HOS is a pretty difficult matchup for Zappa. His pokes are simply superior to Zappa's, and his damage makes things risky. Naked: -At the start of the match, the most important thing is to make sure he cannot start applying pressure. The only thing that gets close enough to f.S is Rock It, and not many HOS's start the match with that, so f.S is a good choice. If they do Rock it, you can 6P and beat it out. Other than that, they may try either 6HS, f.S, or 2S to stuff pressure attempts/start their own pressure. It IS possible, but really difficult, to 6P his 6HS, so blocking or trying to summon into it is a better option. His f.S is pretty much useless against Zappa, since he's so small, but you need to watch out for 2S. It's very fast and has a lot of range; you can 5K or summon it. -If he gets charged, it becomes a High risk for High reward scenario: If you can trick him and beat him out of a move with summons or 6P/5K's, you can reverse the match, but at the same time, if you move wrong you'll get hurt bad. Ghosts: -This is an annoying summon, as usual, for the enemy. HOS is really slow and can't get in too well, which means one haunting will allow you to lock him down for a long time. -Watch out for pressure; HOS's pressure is pretty annoying for Zappa to deal with, especially with the ghosts. Try not to get into the air too much or you'll get DP'd or air poked (He has very good air moves and decent anti-airs). Sword: -The sword will be a pretty annoying summon as well, because it has moves that can compete with HOS's. The Sword DP is very good, and the swipe will stuff a lot of rush in attempts as well. -HOS is pretty heavy, making him pretty easy to combo. Likewise, you can get in a lot of hits because alot of his moves don't have the priority or speed to beat out the sword. Dog: -Pretty difficult to set up for this match, because of HOS's great pokes and pressure tactics. However, As with the ghosts, he's easy to lock down because he can't move around too often. -If you're being pressure, the dog is your best friend. Wait for a meaty to connect (j.HS, j.D, 6HS, etc.) and then retaliate with the dog. Look out for charged moves, as they all multi-hit and will beat you out completely. Raou: -DEFINITELY the best summon for this matchup, hands down. With Edguy and Darkness anthem, HOS cannot pressure you very well at all and you will have the advantage, since HOS does not do well defensively. -Chip them, combo them, throw them-- Whatever it takes to get through HOS's defense and beat him. Overall: This is a pretty straightforward match, but that's kind of where Zappa has trouble. Don't let him get pressure, and practice timing on what moves Zappa CAN beat to get a feel for how to control the match. All of HOS's moves are slow and have a lot of recovery/startup, so take advantage of that. I'd say this is probably 6-4, HOS's favor. As always, thoughts, comments, yada yada welcome.

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Isn't this like the worst matchup for HOS? You get to outzone him completely in almost all cases. Its like playing a gimped slayer. 5k most of his shit, eat a dp? whatever. you got guts.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4635 <-- hintalove is the HOS that I play against.

Ghosts - LOL

Dog - How can you say its hard to setup things with the dog? sit on it, HOS cant touch you without losing something. block anything he tries and AA with the dog, or just block. Get advantage... profit.

Sword - 236s owns face whenever you see him move forward. Followup is a guessing game thats usually in your favor. sword dp > HOS dp. GG. every block string pushes him away with just 5h. The entire point of playing against HOS is keeping him out and winning by attrition. The sword just punishes all the mistakes a lot moreso than the other 2 summons.

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Isn't this like the worst matchup for HOS? You get to outzone him completely in almost all cases. Its like playing a gimped slayer. 5k most of his shit, eat a dp? whatever. you got guts.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4635 <-- hintalove is the HOS that I play against.

Ghosts - LOL

Dog - How can you say its hard to setup things with the dog? sit on it, HOS cant touch you without losing something. block anything he tries and AA with the dog, or just block. Get advantage... profit.

Sword - 236s owns face whenever you see him move forward. Followup is a guessing game thats usually in your favor. sword dp > HOS dp. GG. every block string pushes him away with just 5h. The entire point of playing against HOS is keeping him out and winning by attrition. The sword just punishes all the mistakes a lot moreso than the other 2 summons.

As I said, Zappa has the advantage as long as HOS can't get in. But HOS's moves make this difficult, since they have good range and huge hitboxes. Dog gets beat out by any charge move, since they all multi-hit, that's why I said setting it up in a advantageous position is hard. Ghosts Win as long as he doesn't get on you, and the sword helps with countering him. But this is still a pretty bad matchup for Zappa, HOS has great damage and can get through a lot of Zappa's defensive moves (6P, f.S, 5K, etc.). Only his DP and Summon are safe, and even then he can bait them.

I'm not sure how good Swordslide is for this match; It can beat Rock It? I can imagine it beating just about everything else though, so it's still good. The thing is, though, HOS gets massive advantage as soon as he starts a pressure/gets a knockdown on you. He has decent mixup options, grab invul moves, and massive blockstun on a lot of his meaty's. I'd advise not underestimating him at all.

Edit: To clarify, I need to re-evaluate my thoughts from my first post, particularly about it being a bad matchup. It's more about even, if not a little in Zappa's favor, but it's a difficult match is what I meant to say.

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Just some things I wanted to comment on here...

Ghosts.

HOS is really slow and can't get in too well, which means one haunting will allow you to lock him down for a long time.

Whilst it's true HOS has a weakness to being zoned, he certainly isn't slow, he's pretty damn fast in fact.

But yes, Ghosts are a real pain. If you watch this Sanma match as an example, you'll see how he deals with Ghosts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE5rUI4upNo

Note he will try to back off and build Charge, looking for an opening to get in and get rid of those Ghosts. But he's using HOS's speed to try and get in for those gaps.

Dog.

Look out for charged moves, as they all multi-hit and will beat you out completely.

I think that's a bit of exaggeration really, especially since if HOS's specials trade, he'll lose his Gauge as if the move hit normally (and you won't get those extra hits from higher levels if they trade).

All of HOS's moves are slow and have a lot of recovery/startup, so take advantage of that.

Actually, most of HOS's normals are very fast and are safe or only just disadvantaged on block. You also need to bear in mind that he can also CC lots of his normals and make them even safer in most instances. His fast recovery normals and CCs allow frame traps, so trying to punish HOS in the wrong situation is going to hurt you.

But HOS's moves make this difficult, since they have good range and huge hitboxes.

Again HOS's moves don't have good range, he has very short range in fact, that's part of the reason he's weak against characters who can zone him, like Axl, Testament, Zappa, Faust etc...

Fafnir and Lv3 BRP give a good high/low mix up at about mid range but other than these moves, he's lacking in range on all his normals (5S(f) is a quirky move as is 5HS, they're best used in specific circumstances).

Personally I would see this as 6-4 to Zappa, the match is definitely not in HOS's favour.

Couple more matches of this fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpMbeh-SUYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y152cBSjrkA

Oh and yeah, Raoh is without doubt the hardest part of this fight! lol

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i believe an instant blocked sword charge can be FB punished... and definately a blocked HS return. I think that alone makes sword charge not a good option... But it does beat rock it because sword charge starts faster. I'd be more than happy to let the dog die for a level 3 charge, because without level 3 charges, HOS doesn't hurt nearly as much. I think the matchup is better for zappa than order sol, when he gets in on you you'll have a hard time finding openings to counter, but whats so new about that with zappa? As long as he is kept away and at a good enough distance that he can't freely charge, then its good. sword is actually decent in this matchup because you get yourself a DP (CH FRC for pain), longer range than OS, and decent pokes/pushaway moves.

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I'm not really going to tell people how to play the matchup as I have too little experience with it myself. But several things: OS is nearly as fast as Chipp(and this isn't an over-exaggeration) and nearly everything OS does is safe and sometimes also whiff safe. Guard punishable moves are FB, l1SV and l2SV. l3SV can be punished before the 4th hit, l3TR can be interrupted before the second. The rest is pretty much a no go zone and in some cases leaves him with tremendous advantage. These two things are the major parts of OS's strength, the nonhitconfirmable heavy damaging combos he has aren't nearly as dangerous as the above two facts.

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Your dp is fantastic here, as is your far s. Who cares if you get hit by rock it? Unless its level 2 or 3, its not going to do much. Your dp is good because its grounded, GREAT damage potential (as far as getting roah), and -11 (IIRC). While this is punishable on block by FB (Something I have never seen the japanese do), it is not punishable on FD, which commonly happens when baiting dps. Whats more, Order Sol needs comparatively stringent requirements to get damage off his ground strings. Finally, his pressure strings usually involve alot of frame traps, and we all know how fun it is to dp frame traps! End result, equilibruim is in your favor to dp more than you would in a normal match, which is good for you. The bad news I guess is I don't think roah is that strong at all in this matchup. I mean, he is not bad, but its nothing like the kind of lockdowns he gets against some other characters. In fact, one wrong guess with roah will give hos ALOT of damage, and it comes up quite often against him. Dog is still great, Ghosts are ok, Sword is ok.

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Your dp is fantastic here, as is your far s. Who cares if you get hit by rock it? Unless its level 2 or 3, its not going to do much.

Your dp is good because its grounded, GREAT damage potential (as far as getting roah), and -11 (IIRC). While this is punishable on block by FB (Something I have never seen the japanese do), it is not punishable on FD, which commonly happens when baiting dps. Whats more, Order Sol needs comparatively stringent requirements to get damage off his ground strings. Finally, his pressure strings usually involve alot of frame traps, and we all know how fun it is to dp frame traps! End result, equilibruim is in your favor to dp more than you would in a normal match, which is good for you.

The bad news I guess is I don't think roah is that strong at all in this matchup. I mean, he is not bad, but its nothing like the kind of lockdowns he gets against some other characters. In fact, one wrong guess with roah will give hos ALOT of damage, and it comes up quite often against him.

Dog is still great, Ghosts are ok, Sword is ok.

Are you talking about the summon? It's good, but your making it out like HOS can't do anything to it. FB, Blockhead buster, Gunblaze all completely rape it, but it's good for messing up his slower pokes like 6HS, 5HS, 5S...

I'm not really going to tell people how to play the matchup as I have too little experience with it myself. But several things: OS is nearly as fast as Chipp(and this isn't an over-exaggeration) and nearly everything OS does is safe and sometimes also whiff safe. Guard punishable moves are FB, l1SV and l2SV. l3SV can be punished before the 4th hit, l3TR can be interrupted before the second. The rest is pretty much a no go zone and in some cases leaves him with tremendous advantage.

These two things are the major parts of OS's strength, the nonhitconfirmable heavy damaging combos he has aren't nearly as dangerous as the above two facts.

Are you talking about movement speed or attack speed? HOS has some quick moves but their nowhere near as fast as Chipps. His 2S has about 15 frames startup if I remember right, his f.S, 5HS, and 6HS are slow and easy to punish with 6P, and all of his air moves are slow as hell (but meaty too).

Also, fun little trick that happened when I was fighting a HOS recently, if they try to jump in with deep j.HS/j.D, a well timed FB will anti-air them.

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Remember all the times you used Zappa, and people wouldn't give you a chance to summon and it pissed you off? This is your chance for revenge. Don't let him charge up, and his mixup game will go down the crapper. He will need to roman cancel his standard ground overhead for a combo, and bandit revolver lvl 1 = free summon, even if you eat it. His dust range is very short compared to the range of all his other pokes, so he isn't going to be throwing that out much. I don't find this match very hard. HOS needs spacing and time to charge up in order to really do any serious damage, time you can easily use in your advantage to either naked summon or rush him. I like to high jump and fire off K ghosts, unless he high jumps and storm vipers there isn't very much he can do to stop you. HOS has the lowest jump height in the game, and Zappa has some good air maneuverability, so go crazy.

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