[FB] The Epyon General Discussion: Get in, whip everything

[Stargazer8128]

Hi, need some newbie advice with epyon. So to do the slash x 13 etc, eg, for 8b x5 then 2bc finisher, is use homing dash a in between the inputs? i.e 8b,a,8a,a,....a,8b.2bc. Thanks

[KiraYamatoSF]

Hi, need some newbie advice with epyon. So to do the slash x 13 etc, eg, for 8b x5 then 2bc finisher, is use homing dash a in between the inputs? i.e 8b,a,8a,a,....a,8b.2bc. Thanks

Yes.

[zodiark921]

So.... last night when I was playing exvsfb with epyon, I encountered NT1 (Alex) for the first time.  And for the first time Ive got absolutely owned because it has that armour thing.  Anyone has any suggestions as to how to deal with that??

[Z-0010332536893]

Whip the armor off, if you must, but your partner should be helping you do things like stripping clothes and armors like that.

[zodiark921]

whip the armour, and then the whip bounce back, and Alex got a free melee combo. Is it inevitable?

[edollarports]

Alex can't punish you for breaking her armor, she's got recovery too. You're just getting hit.

[zodiark921]

Maybe my reaction isnt fast enough lol

[KillaKincaid]

Epyon has slowly becoming one of my favorite suits. It's just rewarding to play it patiently and get a hit. I still do find myself having trouble getting into whip range though. My main get in tactic is to do 8b>6b>6/4ab then continue the combo if it hits. If not I try to go into MA mode to get away. MA is kinda useful as it does drop Epyon at a faster rate and allows you to escape some incoming projectiles. I mostly use it to evade and create that presence to let my opponents know I'm there plotting and waiting hoping they will boost too much so my partner can punish them. I'm definitely looking to spend more time with the suit in the future and any tips are welcome.

[zodiark921]

8b is also my main start up.  I also use b>2b in some situations to catch landing or people off their guard as the animation is very quick.  However you run the risk of being punished as you will homing dashing towards your opponent.  Also I find 2ab is a very good counter to close range melee as it has a quicker startup time then whip.

 

Usually at the start I will try approach and jump around without any intention to hit to see how the other team reacts.  Most of the time (probably due to the fact that epyon is too strong in melee range) both red locks will be on me.  In that case ill focus on avoid taking too much damage and let my partner do the job.

 

Usually the game starts to open once you are able to land 1 combo as your target's partner will try to cover for his teammate and things will start to get quite messy.

 

I found that against very good team player, Eypon cant do much damage as you wont be able to even land a proper combo (everytime you get your first hit off, youll get hit by br).  Im still finding a way to improve on that aspect.

 

Oh, 1 more thing to share.  Usually I save up my burst till max so that I get a get-out-of-jail free card in case my target burst while I'm comboing and ran out of boost (which is the case 90% of the time).  This is especially helpful when you are on low health.

 

After all those time I spent playing on Epyon (this is my first 5 star suit), I find that either I can totally trash the opponent or Ill get trashed lol.  Or theres so many trading hits that makes Epyon not very effective.  I still have yet to find a way to play Epyon so that it does consistent damage yet minimise damage intake.

[Tryflozn]

Epyon has slowly becoming one of my favorite suits. It's just rewarding to play it patiently and get a hit. I still do find myself having trouble getting into whip range though. My main get in tactic is to do 8b>6b>6/4ab then continue the combo if it hits. If not I try to go into MA mode to get away. MA is kinda useful as it does drop Epyon at a faster rate and allows you to escape some incoming projectiles. I mostly use it to evade and create that presence to let my opponents know I'm there plotting and waiting hoping they will boost too much so my partner can punish them. I'm definitely looking to spend more time with the suit in the future and any tips are welcome.

Not sure if you are aware of this, but the cross hair actually tells you when you are in range to use 2B. If you want you can follow your instincts or use the cross hair feature to know when to land 2B on your target. If your clueless on what I'm talking about, just try to walk close to your target as your cross hair turns red, now walk even closer and the cross hair will change into a red cross hair with 4 tiny triangles inside the cross hair pointing at the target. This is the distance where your heat rod of 2B can reach your target.  

 

also If you didn't know, in MA if you press A for the tail whip motion, it blocks incoming projectiles, usually really good idea to spam that when your running in MA as when shots follow you from behind, they will be blocked by the tail whip attack. Just keep in mind when his heat rod is in action his heat rod property is always kept no matter what. so as long as you activate the heat rod to do something, the heat rod will block incoming projectiles. This will Also block giant beam but only for a second. So if you are moving while blocking with the Heat Rod, it is possible to slide out of the giant beams path allowing you to be safe from a shot like that

 

8b is also my main start up.  I also use b>2b in some situations to catch landing or people off their guard as the animation is very quick.  However you run the risk of being punished as you will homing dashing towards your opponent.  Also I find 2ab is a very good counter to close range melee as it has a quicker startup time then whip.

 

Usually at the start I will try approach and jump around without any intention to hit to see how the other team reacts.  Most of the time (probably due to the fact that epyon is too strong in melee range) both red locks will be on me.  In that case ill focus on avoid taking too much damage and let my partner do the job.

 

Usually the game starts to open once you are able to land 1 combo as your target's partner will try to cover for his teammate and things will start to get quite messy.

 

I found that against very good team player, Eypon cant do much damage as you wont be able to even land a proper combo (everytime you get your first hit off, youll get hit by br).  Im still finding a way to improve on that aspect.

 

Oh, 1 more thing to share.  Usually I save up my burst till max so that I get a get-out-of-jail free card in case my target burst while I'm comboing and ran out of boost (which is the case 90% of the time).  This is especially helpful when you are on low health.

 

After all those time I spent playing on Epyon (this is my first 5 star suit), I find that either I can totally trash the opponent or Ill get trashed lol.  Or theres so many trading hits that makes Epyon not very effective.  I still have yet to find a way to play Epyon so that it does consistent damage yet minimise damage intake.

A tip for you on using his Heat rod attack, try using 4AB more if you are self defending or being offensive. I'm not telling you that you should never use 2AB, I'll explain to you why 4AB is more frequently used. The reason why you want to use 4AB more frequently is because Epyon's Heat Rod Property blocks projectiles. 4AB makes his hit Hit box start right in front of him as the whip motion starts from his right side with 4AB, allowing him to block attacks almost instantly compared to something like 6AB where it makes his whip motion start from his left making his hit box beside him instead of shielding him. This is the same for 2AB where his hit box starts above him, this motions of 2AB & 6AB still blocks for you, but only when there hit box comes in front of Epyon.

Also Epyon doesn't have to trade if you play him correctly, you can only do so much on your own in a 2v2 game. Sure you can come out less damaged or what not, and you can tell me that you could train your self hard core to overcome those kinds of situations, but let me ask you, would you not rather play the match in Epyon's favour? To do this, you need to learn to break the formation where I like to call it "Tight Formation" if you don't break this, it's heavily a disadvantage for an Epyon player. There are multiple ways to do this, but if you want to know the easiest way, just ask your partner to play something with a charge shot beam like Luna's Zaku or tell them to play something with a crazy range like Ex-S or even something like Cherudium where the longer they wait the more chance they will die. Luna's, Kashatriya's and other MS's that have the ability to place a wall like beam on the map is very handy to Epyon, because it forces the opposing team to break there formation. If they keep being tightly together they will both run into a beam. So it forces them to break there "Tight Formation," and when that happens, that's your chance to use Epyon to it's fullest potential. This is forcing the opposing team into a 1v1 set-up which is in Epyon's favour.

2nd option is with Ex-S or Cherudium which with this set up makes your opponent annoyed, so annoyed that they would go after the back player. Also because the back player who is Ex-S or Cherudium have a lot of shots that down the opponent. which in return makes them out of the game just long enough for Epyon to initiate a 1v1 scenario with the target that is not downed by the back player's shot. This is especially effective with Ex-S, being a 3k which pressures them to want to kill Ex-S 1st. It's a really high risk high reward play if you want to partner with Ex-S, however Cherudium on the other hand is more safe and can give you almost the same results. But for both strategies, just be patient and be there shield, this means try not to let the opponents pass your front line. At least if they do manage to past your front-line, you should at least make them pay greatly for it as an Epyon.

I'm not telling both of you to change your play style or anything or trying to say this is the absolute way to play Eypon, just hoping to give you more insight on the options available for Epyon. I know what you guys are probably going through because Epyon is my Main MS too and I have been playing is since Full Boost's released, also I believe I was one of the 1st few NA players to 5 star it back in January and was able to come in 7th Place at Evo 2014 with Epyon and having Luna Zaku as my partner. Epyon struggles against certain match ups but can also dominate in certain match ups too, I understand why he is a C tier, but I do not agree with anyone, when they say Epyon is unplayable as it is not the case, he is very effective in the game and is completely playable, just takes a lot more effort to use then the rest of the cast in this game. Good Luck on continue learning it

[KillaKincaid]

Thanks for your input. I started using 2B more in my gameplay, but definitely wasn't aware of the cross hairs thing, or the fact that his whip in MA mode nullifies projectiles too. I just used MA mode to change my falling patterns so it was harder to hit me. I'll definitely use it more now. Another thing I like to do is when they are down, get above them ever so slightly so that  I can do 5ab. It has a hitbox below them so it can hit them into the right position where I can go for an easy follow up. If it doesn't connect, I can either chase them down, or back off depending on who they are and what's going on around me.

 

I kinda wish Epyon's 2b would nullify projectiles. Hopefully it will get that buff in the future?

[Tryflozn]

I also take it that you probably are not aware that Eypon has an infinite combo in this game? In EXFB not sure if he can still do it in Maxi Boost, but Eypon has a combo that can go infinitely that does not require him to use homing dash at all, this combo is really tight on timing the hits, and also needs the target to be grounded. If done correctly his target won't be able to block during this combo. However if you miss time anything during this combo, your target can block your next attack in the middle of your combo.  
 

This is the combo string: BC >B > Land to recover boost > boost dash in front of target's face > 2B > 5B > any direction input that is not 5B > any direction input that is not the previous one > Rainbow step 4/6 > BC >B > Land to recover boost > boost dash in front of target's face > 2B > 5B >Repeat until the target is dead. (Note: Target needs to be grounded, it is not possible to do this air born. Also not possible to do this ending with a homing dash attack as it will drop them instantly)  

Homing Dash B and Directional B are different properties. HD-B for short has a property of making your target fall on there back, while directional B has the property of making your target stand or drop to there feet instead of on there back.

Also 2B can nullify projectiles, it's just the direction of the hit box and where it is coming from that is making it very difficult to time. 2B if done correctly can nullify Banshee lightning attack, but again, it is really weird on how the hit box works with 2B.

[KillaKincaid]

Wasn't aware of it at all thanks for telling me about it.  2b being able to nullify projectiles is something i really hoped for, but based on what you said, it's unreliable. I've gotten by so many BRs when I tried to trade with my opponents that i couldn't even follow up with the 2B. Like you said it's really weird. Another thing: Is 8ab even that useful? I mean It's a forced down, but do you even just go for max damage?

[Tryflozn]

That move where Epyon whips down is for defensive purposes, it even has the ability to break certain Super Armours. The property of the whip cares some of the same properties as his 8B where he does a little hop motion. Normally this move can't be used offensively just defensively, If you find yourself out of options and you have like 10% HP or less and something like master is rushing straight at you to finish you off. just slam him to the ground with this move, since the move downs him, it will give you enough time to continue to retreat. This is also good against MS that fire projectiles as you will either block there shot with the heat rod or hop over there projectile. It a really good defensive move when you know the correct situation to use it in.  

[zodiark921]

Tryflozn, thanks so much for ur advice!  Im not aware that 4AB and 6AB actually have different block properties lol.  Always thought they are the same except the motion starts at different sides.

 

I have to agree with you on the breaking opposing team's formation,  sometimes I tried to do this when I partner with suits like X2, Kashatriya.  But usually I took too much damage while trying to find holes in their formation (yes... Im not toooo good at avoiding damage and quite often gets punished at landing...).

 

Can you give me some advice as to how will you help trying to break their formation? or just leave that for your partner?

 

I am also having a lot of trouble closing in on suits that has lots of BR or projectiles (eg Xi, reborns, EX-S, nu), can you give me some advice as to how to handle them?

 

I used to use hit BC + B move quite a lot but now I hardly use it because I found it very risky.  Do you find that move useful in any situations during the game?

 

I have seen the infinite combo in nico vids but I think its more like a gimmick cause I dont think anyone will be able to pull it off during a 2v2 fight.. lol.

 

I have a lot of respect for Epyon players because I think it is the hardest suit to play (having no range options what so ever).  It is so satisfying as an Epyon player when are able to dominate and win a match.  It is definitely a playable suit in the game and can be very scary too!

[Tryflozn]

Unlike other MSs in the game, Epyon is one of the MSs that has a really high counter pick rate, the top 3 MSs that counter Epyon are Xi, Master, and Turn A Gundam. out of these three, the top one on the list is Xi. there not complete counters since this is a 2v2 game, if this was a 1v1 game those 3 MSs would completely counter Epyon. If you happen to face any of these MSs as an Epyon player, it will require you to have a proper back partner that compliments Epyon's features, this would most likely be a Cherudium, unless you partner know how to play a Gold Frame, this would work too. But the recommended partners for this match up would be Luna Zaku or Cherudium (I would say an EX-S would work too in this case).

After having the proper partner selected, you need to play Epyon really patiently as well as learn to corner the opposing team. The technique to corner your prey is always a must for an Epyon player when the opposing team plays a tight formation or if they decided to counter pick you. So when I say corner someone I don't mean push them into a corner and attack them blindly. When I say corner them, corner them and just keep moving around and don't attack until you see them try to leave the corner. Once one of them makes the motion to leave the corner that's your opportunity to pounce on them with Epyon. However if two of them try to leave the corner in the same direction at the same time, you need to cut there exit path and whip the direction that hits them back into the corner. This will force the opposing team to break there formation eventually since they have there backs against the wall with very little space to maneuver around, and this will definitely make them desperate to leave the corner if you have someone that has a giant beam like Luna Zaku's charge shot, since they can barely dodge, this makes them both a sitting ducks staying in the corner to eventually get hit by a big beam. and if you have an EX-S it's gg since EX-S can stay so far away and deals tons of damage and all you have to do is sit there with your presence because they will not want to run into Epyon's thick defence as most likely it's a losing engagement if you run at an Epyon instead of letting the Epyon run at you. So in the end if they don't decide to split up they will be stuck in the corner for quiet awhile for gerobies and what not to hit them all day long.

Now to face Xi..... there is no definite way to get into Xi, since this is a 2v2 game, let your partner deal with Xi. All your partner has to do is annoy the hell out of Xi and keep downing it while you the Epyon goes and rapes the partner of Xi 3 times if must, if it's a 1k, Epyon should not lose to it, not even against Alex. Try to kill there partner as quickly as possible, if you can already make Xi feel like he is in the OC zone he will not rush you. Instead Xi will try to heavily rush you before his partner takes the 1st life to get your aggro off his own partner, which is a good thing for Epyon as now Xi will be running into you thick defence (aka your 4/6AB whip range that can actually deal with his missiles and the rest of his projectiles.) This is what I mean when I say, it's an advantage for Epyon when people come into his defensive zone.

For EX-S he's a special case, since he punishes people that play passive or a tight formation neutral game. Ex-S biggest weakness is that neutral game play is his greatest power, Epyon eats people's neutral away, so in away Epyon is a counter to Ex-S, however going blindly into Ex-S is dangerous as his sub can down you. If you go in to him make sure to use the Heat Rod to get in or time your 8B like a god to hop over his sub. If your not a god with 8B then rely on the Heat rod to hit him. As long as your chasing him 24/7, Ex-S can't do anything but focus on you. Now here is the next part, your partner either needs to kill Ex-S's partner or he needs to attack Ex-S with you. Basically you need to flank Ex-S and he will lose the engagement. Usually a good partner for Epyon for this case would be God, Banshee, or Gold Frame as these MSs can support plus flank with Epyon. Another notable MS that can do this with Epyon is F-91.

If you go against Reborn, then Heat Rod is a must for this match up, as it will protect you from Reborn's Assist, if you use the heat rod properly, if incorrectly the assist will blow up in your face when you whip them. again basicly you can use the same strategies I explained to you above or you try to use the Heat Rod to engage Reborn, as when I face reborn, I always wait until my Heat Rod lands then attack, unless I have Cherudium shield bitz backing me up.        

Now to answer your last question about BC > B, yes that move is really handy, That mode reserves boost in Zero System and you can BC > B > Rainbow Step > MA to run. like..... if you happen to over heat and you want to run from your target, target his partner and BC > B away from him and towards his partner. BC > B is also really good attack to flank someone that is not looking and also BC > Block can be used repetitively in over heat, as after the block animation you can chain BC again and then into block again. 

[zodiark921]

Thanks for explanations!  I read through your comment and went to play a few games afterwards,  using 4AB a lot more and play more patiently trying to corner the other team and force them to make a move.   Definitely see the improvement in terms of damage dealt and survival rate.  However now I ran into a problem where the opposing team tried to focus down my partner and take him out first (Im only playing on ranked shuffle so our communication is limited).  I had a few matches where my partner actually died before me (Mainly due to BR attacks and not melee).

 

Ex-S is still a very big problem for me.  When he tries to keep a distance from you and he got a very strong partner (An IJ in 1 of my games) who kept staying in front of him and stop me from charging in.

 

And I didnt know BC > Block can be used repetitively in over heat.  Thats a great tip!  Will definitely incorporate this into my game play. Thanks!

[Tryflozn]

That's one of Epyon's biggest flaws... is that he can't play with people that don't understand how to play a back or support role. However if your partner knows and is playing an MS that can support from a far, you need to play Epyon as a shield for him. You need to make sure to look at the radar and tell where you partner's position is on the map. Then you look for the enemy on the radar to see which one is the closes to your partner. Look for the closes one to your partner and pounce on that one, Make sure no one ever passes you, in return this will create a front line that is very visible, unless your partner decides to go in front of your Epyon then the front line will automatically break. Usually this strategy works as long as your partner cooperates with you then you should be fine. If they don't then your going to have to rush and kill yourself before they takes the 1st life, or you need to learn to play as a back Epyon and let them take all the lives, which is really difficult to play this style of Epyon, do to him not having any range, but it's possible. 

[LinksJP]

Unlike other MSs in the game, Epyon is one of the MSs that has a really high counter pick rate, the top 3 MSs that counter Epyon are Xi, Master, and Turn A Gundam. out of these three, the top one on the list is Xi. there not complete counters since this is a 2v2 game, if this was a 1v1 game those 3 MSs would completely counter Epyon. If you happen to face any of these MSs as an Epyon player, it will require you to have a proper back partner that compliments Epyon's features, this would most likely be a Cherudium, unless you partner know how to play a Gold Frame, this would work too. But the recommended partners for this match up would be Luna Zaku or Cherudium (I would say an EX-S would work too in this case).

After having the proper partner selected, you need to play Epyon really patiently as well as learn to corner the opposing team. The technique to corner your prey is always a must for an Epyon player when the opposing team plays a tight formation or if they decided to counter pick you. So when I say corner someone I don't mean push them into a corner and attack them blindly. When I say corner them, corner them and just keep moving around and don't attack until you see them try to leave the corner. Once one of them makes the motion to leave the corner that's your opportunity to pounce on them with Epyon. However if two of them try to leave the corner in the same direction at the same time, you need to cut there exit path and whip the direction that hits them back into the corner. This will force the opposing team to break there formation eventually since they have there backs against the wall with very little space to maneuver around, and this will definitely make them desperate to leave the corner if you have someone that has a giant beam like Luna Zaku's charge shot, since they can barely dodge, this makes them both a sitting ducks staying in the corner to eventually get hit by a big beam. and if you have an EX-S it's gg since EX-S can stay so far away and deals tons of damage and all you have to do is sit there with your presence because they will not want to run into Epyon's thick defence as most likely it's a losing engagement if you run at an Epyon instead of letting the Epyon run at you. So in the end if they don't decide to split up they will be stuck in the corner for quiet awhile for gerobies and what not to hit them all day long.

Now to face Xi..... there is no definite way to get into Xi, since this is a 2v2 game, let your partner deal with Xi. All your partner has to do is annoy the hell out of Xi and keep downing it while you the Epyon goes and rapes the partner of Xi 3 times if must, if it's a 1k, Epyon should not lose to it, not even against Alex. Try to kill there partner as quickly as possible, if you can already make Xi feel like he is in the OC zone he will not rush you. Instead Xi will try to heavily rush you before his partner takes the 1st life to get your aggro off his own partner, which is a good thing for Epyon as now Xi will be running into you thick defence (aka your 4/6AB whip range that can actually deal with his missiles and the rest of his projectiles.) This is what I mean when I say, it's an advantage for Epyon when people come into his defensive zone.

For EX-S he's a special case, since he punishes people that play passive or a tight formation neutral game. Ex-S biggest weakness is that neutral game play is his greatest power, Epyon eats people's neutral away, so in away Epyon is a counter to Ex-S, however going blindly into Ex-S is dangerous as his sub can down you. If you go in to him make sure to use the Heat Rod to get in or time your 8B like a god to hop over his sub. If your not a god with 8B then rely on the Heat rod to hit him. As long as your chasing him 24/7, Ex-S can't do anything but focus on you. Now here is the next part, your partner either needs to kill Ex-S's partner or he needs to attack Ex-S with you. Basically you need to flank Ex-S and he will lose the engagement. Usually a good partner for Epyon for this case would be God, Banshee, or Gold Frame as these MSs can support plus flank with Epyon. Another notable MS that can do this with Epyon is F-91.

If you go against Reborn, then Heat Rod is a must for this match up, as it will protect you from Reborn's Assist, if you use the heat rod properly, if incorrectly the assist will blow up in your face when you whip them. again basicly you can use the same strategies I explained to you above or you try to use the Heat Rod to engage Reborn, as when I face reborn, I always wait until my Heat Rod lands then attack, unless I have Cherudium shield bitz backing me up.        

Now to answer your last question about BC > B, yes that move is really handy, That mode reserves boost in Zero System and you can BC > B > Rainbow Step > MA to run. like..... if you happen to over heat and you want to run from your target, target his partner and BC > B away from him and towards his partner. BC > B is also really good attack to flank someone that is not looking and also BC > Block can be used repetitively in over heat, as after the block animation you can chain BC again and then into block again. 

 

0_0 Try really knows a lot. You could publish a book on epyon. Even though I disdain melee/don't understand epyon fundamentally, I feel like even I learned a lot. Speaking as EX-S main what he said about that matchup is spot on. Im monitoring this thread taking notes from trys wisdom

[KillaKincaid]

I know that the Xi match up is pretty bad match up for Epyon. The mico missiles just seem to stop all my advances. I usually try and over-cost the partner, but Xi as a back is still strong. What you said about Ex-S is very true. Matter of fact, that man above me gives me A LOT of trouble.

 

 

Thanks for all this info though. I definitely keep it in mind in the future.

[Tryflozn]

0_0 Try really knows a lot. You could publish a book on epyon. Even though I disdain melee/don't understand epyon fundamentally, I feel like even I learned a lot. Speaking as EX-S main what he said about that matchup is spot on. Im monitoring this thread taking notes from trys wisdom

LOL Skyslam said the same thing, he told me I should write a book about it too LMAO

 

I know that the Xi match up is pretty bad match up for Epyon. The mico missiles just seem to stop all my advances. I usually try and over-cost the partner, but Xi as a back is still strong. What you said about Ex-S is very true. Matter of fact, that man above me gives me A LOT of trouble.

 

 

Thanks for all this info though. I definitely keep it in mind in the future.

Usually when it comes to Xi, I would switch to 00 O-raiser in a competitive match, unless for some reason I would feel confident enough to face Xi with Epyon if I had a confident Ex-S as my rear partner, since Xi would need to come forward to attack Ex-S due to Ex-S's red lock far out ranges Xi, and if he plays neutral game and leaves Ex-S alone, Ex-S would win because his neutral game is extremely strong, strong enough to actually carry an MS that has no range, which in this case would be Epyon. Also if Xi pushes up, he will force himself into Epyon's Defensive zone which is in Epyon's favour of engagement. That's why Ex-S & Epyon is a valid team composition since if they want to OC Epyon they need to push to Ex-S but in order to get to Ex-S they need to get through Epyon's front line. This comp is High Risk + High Reward, but also really difficult to play and can be extremely effective against a lot of MSs that are usually a counter pick to both Ex-S & Epyon, With these two borrowing each others abilities they negate each others weaknesses in away.  

[KillaKincaid]

You can add Penelope to that list of suits that shut Epyon down. I think it's actually worse than the Xi match up.