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DaiAndOh

[Xrd] Venom Gameplay Discussion

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Profile/Movelist:
http://ggxrd.com/character/venom/

IMPORTANT SYSTEM NOTE:
YRCs (25 meter Roman Cancel) occur on moves when you RC when an opponent is not in hit or block stun. There are some unique possibilities, we'll see how they develop, but it also shuts down some staples of Venom's game (such as 2s->HS Stinger FRC on hit).

Normals of note:
6p: Is the AC+R/#Reload Animation
c.s: Has a different animation, but same properties? Hitbox seems closer to #R version, if that's the case, the 3rd hit will miss most characters crouching.
j.d: New normal, replaces old j.d. Venom swings his cue upward, probably jumping anti-air. Also works great in combos, allowing for re-jump loops or 6hs when done close to the ground. j.d hits balls forward a bit, and off the ceiling, causing them to bounce downard.
5hs: Stagger only on counterhit.
6k: Does not exist.
6hs: Has Reload properties (knocks down, but not plummet like AC+R)
5d: A ball struck by this bounces ala AC+R Force Break Stinger? Did not bounce against opponent, maybe wall, considering j.d...
New Gatling: 6p->6hs. Combo is guaranteed on 6p air counterhit.
2d: Floats higher? Less range?

Throw:
Opponent stays in the ball a bit longer? Or maybe Venom recovers faster.

Specials of note:
Ball Summon (214 p/k/s/hs):
Formations are all new. P ball still sets in front, K ball formation is the same as Reload, except the lowest ball is now horizontally parallel with the highest ball. One formation places a ball high and behind Venom.
d button summon removed.
Can now cancel into teleport.
K ball j.K oki still works.
Balls cannot be redirected by normals once in motion. (ala #R). Other balls, Stinger, and Carcass work. Not sure about other special moves?
Balls seem to last longer in formation.

The Formations (THANK YOU DANDYJ!)
http://i.imgur.com/9qMrRLG.png
http://i.imgur.com/rNaDQYS.png
http://i.imgur.com/zibrSBi.png
http://i.imgur.com/oaqo6dm.png

Teleport (623k):
Frames are closer to Reload than AC+R (ie, faster startup, more recovery)

QV (41236 p/k/s/hs):
The replacement for Dubious Curve (RIP ;_; )
Venom summons a ball that hits the opponent before lining up in formation
Can be charged to create charged balls (ala Stinger charge) on the screen!
While charging, cancels out projectiles
c.s(3) combos into QV. Not sure about midscreen, but full combos in the corner.
Possible to QV YRC and have the ball come out. However, this probably means the attack won't hit.
QV balls last longer than summon balls (about 13 seconds compared to 9)
Counterhit wallbounces.

Stinger Aim and Carcass Raid ([4]6 S/HS and [2]8S/HS respectively)
The main change here is that shooting a ball on the screen will now send the ball used by these moves back or forward, and put it in a neutral position (ie, lined up in formation).
Stinger S moves it back. Stinger H moves it forward.
In the case of Carcass, the balls continue/reverse in the direction they were traveling.
Feints are gone
Carcass Raid can no longer be charged.
2S>H Stinger FRC now requires a RC on hit.. You can get YRC for this on block.

Double Head Morbid (623 S/HS)
At least one version knocks down. However, you don't have the time to setup a ball right afterward for oki.

Overdrives of note.
Dark Angel (2363214S):
New motion, probably to avoid overlapping an input with QV. Also has a fabulous cutscene.

Bishop Run Out (2363214hs):
New move.
Summons a special ball on the screen.
Restores to a neutral position after hit and tends to bounce and interacts with other balls a bit.
Any balls that are in formation are absorbed into Bishop Run Out upon move startup (more balls = larger/more powerful/lasts longer?)
When the special ball is black, it is not active and cannot be moved by Venom.
Venom's Teleport counts this as a ball. Because it absorbs balls into it, Venom will always teleport to it whenever it's on screen.

Dead Angle Attack:
No longer wall sticks, less knockback.

Will be updating this post as vids and info surface. Feel free to contribute/ask/discuss/speculate! And remember, settle with elegance!

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Man losing Dubious and lightning balls kinda sucks. I really liked this part of his gameplay.

This new move looks kind of wierd to me from what I've seen from the loktest. I just hope he won't be a carbon copy of his #R version, cause it was pretty boring comparing to later versions..

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I don't see why teleport would not be capable of being YRC'd. Since he can't mixup because of the slowdown it would just give him better recovery and neutral awareness for 25%.

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Man losing Dubious and lightning balls kinda sucks. I really liked this part of his gameplay.

This new move looks kind of wierd to me from what I've seen from the loktest. I just hope he won't be a carbon copy of his #R version, cause it was pretty boring comparing to later versions..

Yeah, Lightning balls were awesome, especially with the combo routes in ACR to get 2 of them set up off of a DBC loop.

With the new moves, formations, ball mechanics, and possibly YRCs on moves like Carcass Raid, he'll be different enough imo. Vids may be pouring in from the new loketest if ASW cops have let up...

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Google translate interpretations...

From Fino Twitter (@Fino_077):

On QV:

"使い道はまんま青リロのデビですね。ちなみにしゃがみ+近距離じゃないとガトリングからつなげられません笑"

It seems you can only chain on crouching opponents when close?

.足払い短い...

.ボール配置相変わらず...

.ビショップ相変わらず...

.投げは地空とも簡単に弾ける!地だと6HSでも弾ける

.転移は二段J出来ない変わりに裏でも振り向く

Translation From Ronove

- 2D is short

- Ball arrangement is the same as usual

- Bishop is the same

- Can easily combo off both air and ground throws. Same for 6HS.

- Venom can't do a double jump off his teleport but instead he flips back, even when behind an opponent.

Xrdヴェノム

.カーカスとステ有利フレーム少なく、足が短いのと噛み合って割られやすい。

.立ちHSからQV繋げられなくてどうしよと思ったら地上Sモビでダウンとれた。しかし有利フレームないから何も重ねられないっぽい。

.ビショップランアウト空気。

.生成転移は楽しい。

Again, from Ronove

- Both Carcass and Stinger have less advantageous frames on block, the sweep is short and it's easy for the opponent to get away from pressure.

- Can't connect QV off 5HS but it seems S Morbid knocks a grounded opponent down. However it has no advantageous frames so it feels like you can't really do it again often.

- No idea what he means to say about Bishop Runout... either that the move can be done in the air too or that it leaves the opponent airborne? No idea on this sorry. :\

- His teleport is fun to use.

Combo off of 6hs? I thought it still grounded? Hmmm, I asked for clarification...

Based on prior tweets, unchanged I'm presuming is in reference to 3rd loketest. I don't know how his balls were in that test anyway -_-.

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Some important info it holds out to be true from Fino...

- 2S>H Stinger FRC now requires a RC instead

- after guarding Greed Sever if you don't have 50% all you can do as counter is 2S>H Stinger, the risk-reward is kind of screwed up

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Wat. I had to read that a few times before it sunk in.

It's really hard for me to visualize how without lightning balls or Stinger FRC is Venom's pressure supposed to look like.

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Well pressure wise it may still be possible because....IMPORTANT INFORMATION:

YRCs happen on moves while your opponent is NOT in hit or blockstun. Thus, when certain gaps appear in your pressure, YRC on Stinger (and Carcass) should be possible. This also means Teleport will have YRC, and we don't know how exactly it will work for QV. I also envision fake outs using Mad Struggle YRC could be a thing....YRC ball summon too? YRC ball hits? Lots of possibility for new things....we'll see.

EDIT: HEVEN has posted lots of QV combos...interesting stuff...

https://twitter.com/HEVEN_KUNAI

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about only getting 2s stinger, wouldnt you be able to do 2s xx s morbid?

Inferior option.

Even though S Morbid supposedly knocks down in Xrd (something I heard in passing), it's in a far worse oki situation, it's not confirmable as well, so it's horrible on block. Maybe possible to react and YRC before reaching a blocking opponent though? If not, then it's really bad since you would need 50 meter just to make it safe. Whereas the 25 meter for the Stinger FRC usually guaranteed you knockdown, or a pressure situation if blocked.

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yea i just meant to punish specific things. in my head i picture it causing a kd similar to what fb morbid does now, but i guess its more likely that it knocks them hella far like it does now

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yea i just meant to punish specific things. in my head i picture it causing a kd similar to what fb morbid does now, but i guess its more likely that it knocks them hella far like it does now

Nah if anything, it's just like the pre-AC+R version with some kind of knockdown. May not be as strong as FB Morbid's though, I doubt it's better or else there would be better oki opportunities.

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- Venom can't do a double jump off his teleport but instead he flips back, even when behind an opponent.

Can he still air dash afterwards?

Now I wonder if we can use the old jump install trick by doing slow TK teleport input to get a double jump/air dash.

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I'll be timestamping for the video thread later, but some observations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZDUy7JLPHA (Venom gameplay at about 29, 50, and 60 minutes)

Bishop Runout as suspected interacts and bounces with balls on the screen, doesn't go away after single use...

Bishop Runout absorbs your inactive balls when the super is performed....woah!

QV can be charged like Stinger. It will place charged balls on the screen upon release.

QV while charging can absorb/cancel out projectiles. Against I-No in the vid, her note explodes while charging QV.

Could swear I saw a ball hit by 5d bounce off a wall like AC+R FB Stinger?

Also observable in video: the arc new j.d sends balls out, teleport looks like free action afterward, close slash hitbox possibly going to #R version (a nerf) and some formation stuff!

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Saw from a Nico stream K ball j.k oki is still a thing.

QV might be cancellable into itself and/or formation.

5hs does not stagger. 5hs QV does not work. 5hs Double Head Morbid does. 2hs QV works...may only be on counterhit.

S Double Head Morbid Knocks down. Not much oki time.

Possible to YRC QV and have the ball come out on whiff. Not sure on block/hit.

c.s(3) QV works. Midscreen, If the proration was strong enough to cause knockdown, can otg with another QV. In corner, you can do a full combo!

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I saw someone PRC Stinger Aim, but still this doens't allow for it to combo just makes it safe on wiff.

But you can do fun stuff like place a ball, hit it YRC it with IAD follow up like the old Stinger FRC. You just can't use it in combos, which is disappointing as 50% tension will be needed this time around.

Characters seem to tech very fast out of QV so to me that move just seems weird. The projectile nulifing aspect is nice, but using it charged version will be hard. I mean you could possibly knockdown with a sweet into a charged QV, release it when the opponenet get's up, YRC it and hit the ball for a longer block stun but all of this seems a bit counterintutitive for someone used to the old Venom.

Setting up formations will again be a pain if the ass as we'll be back to using sweep all the time since it's the only move that guarantees a long knockdown.

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Ok disregard all that I've said. Just seen the A-cho video with Venom and I screamed like a little girl when he blew people up.

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I love you Dandy. The second one is def K. The 1st and 4th ones are S or HS, not sure which. . 3rd one is probably P.

Going to watch A-Cho when I can today. Looking forward to N-O!

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That new jD looks amazing, I love it. Carcass Raid was actually what made me quit playing Venom, I got really tired of losing from execution giving me 236/623X when I wanted the other. Since none of my other characters are in, I think I'll come back to Venom!

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Ok disregard all that I've said. Just seen the A-cho video with Venom and I screamed like a little girl when he blew people up.

Dood yeah, that set between Venom and Axl? His pressure and oki looked disgusting. So early to really say but he's looking strong.

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