[Xrd] Slayer Gameplay Discussion

[ApertureBlack]

So, Dead on Time: When is it best used? BDC for invincibility through startup to blow through moves? Instead of Mappa RC when in Hellfire or worried about a Burst? EW seems to be a combo tool and crappy wakeup, while the aerial OD is more shenanigan based or for massive corner combos.

 

From my experience, DoT is best used as a reversal of sorts after a BDC or FDC, both of which need to be baited.  You can also use it in combos if their burst is coming back next hit and you just want a chunk of damage/kill.

 

EW is a great combo tool in the corner because it links into itself for large damage.  Its pretty meh everywhere else but its pretty good on wakeup/reversal/jump ins if unexpected.

 

I honestly dont use 2Hit Dandy that much, so I cant say much there.

[Dandy Chippu]

Oops forgot to give credit, sorry, but that video really helped my slayer.

[koufdell]

EW on ch (used as reversal and they push a button) leads to k mappa cS air combo midscreen not so crappy
DOT is a great OD to push opponent to corner with  RC  it grants you corner carry + air combo if you hit them from the startig position

SDD is a destructive OD if you can do the 2 hits for over 400 damage in the corner with RC  so ...meh

[fogelstrom]

EW against people who can't oki properly and for max dmg combos in the corner.
DoT to reaction punish stuff since it has 7+0F startup. Mostly to show people they just can't be pulling stupid stuff all the time. Like vs Faust players who excessivly use items. Show them that when you have 50% it's not free. In Hellfire I use it midscreen on c.S, f.S especially if they have burst.
For DHD if I can confirm c.S, f.S on standing I try to always go for j.D, DHD combos. Obviously air juggle ender if it kills or even looks like it will kill.
 

[moonburn_]

It's a bit gimmicky but I've had some luck with SDD following an air dashed j.S or It's Late that crosses up, usually after playing teleport c.D games. Also anything into CWH RC K > 214k xx SDD. Momentum from the RC'd CWH will send you flying if you footloose too soon though. I don't remember if I do one or two hits before I go for it.

I need to work DoT into my game more. I played around with it in some PB combos a few nights ago and it was awesome damage, but I rarely have enough meter for RRC and OD in the same combo.

[ApertureBlack]

Oops forgot to give credit, sorry, but that video really helped my slayer.

 

Dont care about credit, was just surprised.  Always happy to help.

[Gobosss]

Hello Slayer (and non-Slayer) community,

 

I find myself stuck into a routine that doesn't work anymore with my Slayer gameplan.

I used to play casual and break some jaws with ridiculously easy combo/dumb reversal in GG.AC. Now I want progress (being less casual) and find myself... well satisfy.

 

That being said, i struggle with what you call the "footsies" (?). It's kinda hard to approach with Slayer, i guess i have to learn how to manage spacing but i can't figure it out myself. I tried many things presented in this topic, such as bdc mappa, fdc, iad... nothing work very well in my hands. I get punish by every random move my opponent throw at me.

 

1) How do i get respect ? What bnb/trick should I learn first ?

 

I'm an aggressive player, in this opus Slayers seems to have more tools to get in the face of his opponent and... well you know, do as he please. Still, i can figure it out. I tried to "pressure" with K,2K (frame trap), UP+2K (into nothing), or whiff the UP into a (not so meaty) It's late+nothing (if not counter).

You get my point, i don't know how to handle my "neutral game" / pressure...

 

2) What do you think i should do to break my opponent guard ? Most of the time peole just maintain their low guard and wake up when I 6K/5D/IL.

 

I have a lot of rookie questions, and trust me when I say I tried a lot of thing before queerin assistance there.

 

Thank you.

[fogelstrom]

First of all it's nice to see that you've read alot of the tips and advice already given and gave it a fair shot. However that makes it all the more difficult to give you help. It's hard to give extremely specific advice to someone. At least for me and that's what it seems you need at this point.

Max conversion of any hit usally gives a degree of respect. People go "damn, that's some good combos/damage he knows what he's doing".
And conditioning people is super important. For example even if you play against a seasoned player do Under Pressure -> It's Late 5 times in a row. You're +1 after block and then they'll assume you never do anything else. 50% meter use 2K, Mappa, RC and with a bit of RISC it's almost half life.

I like to watch other players and really focus on what they are doing and trying to understand WHY they are doing it.

Critique videos always help alot

[SuperJ]

one thing i've been trying to integrate more in certain matchups is to use the horrendous hurtbox of mappa to defuse certain projectiles, specifically elph grenade and ino note. definitely not recommended against sol, ky, or zato!

[daymendou]

I'm starting from a similar position where I just played #R Survival mode with keyboard Sol and never really learned defense. It is really important to block and not get CH from random button presses. Sometimes it helps to just block after dash or jump or airdash. Just being able to block and punish will command a lot of respect. If you can Blitz Shield dumb stuff like fullscreen Riot Stamp, all the better.

 

I'm not using dash canceling in matches yet because I still can't imagine using it at the right times. BDC Superjump might be useful when cornered but I always get hit. Try to stay within half a screen away so you can actually dodge/punish with Dandy and not get hit out of every IAD. Do not spam Dandy followups from neutral and remember there's YRC if you need it. Be careful with 2D and Pilebunker/Crosswise if you're close enough to end at throw range. Neutral or forward jump j.S into c.S is probably a bad habit but it still works for me.

 

I've been focusing on getting confirms, especially since anti-air stuff is big. Get whatever damage you can, even if it's just 2KD or j.KD. The confirms I'm focusing on are c.S or f.S, 2PS, 5P or 5PP, j.K/S; c.S f.S Dead on Time is great if you can do the half-circle (I can't) and it seems easy to buffer since neither 5S gatlings into 2S. Spend the time figuring out air combo routes cause going beyond j.SHD or KPKD adds a lot. I see a lot of damage opportunities off CH 5P/2P/j.K but I still miss most of them. Every good confirm you get means you need 1 or even 2 less reads to win.

 

For pressure, I find that I have to be really persistent. It might take 5 or 6 "cycles" before I get a hit. I play more reactively so I watch the opponent's patterns, like what Fogel says. If they 2P/D after UP+nothing, I start using 2H (needs to be blocked low, foot invulnerable from frame 5 beats 2D and ties with most 2P). If they wakeup DP a lot, I try to bait it then go for c.S f.S. Every normal gatlings into 5D if you're in range. Other moves to try are 6K YRC j.K/HS, 6P/H, 5H and 5H 2H, P Dandy Helter Skelter, FDC Bite, walk up Throw, IAD j.S. Try delaying your button presses too.

[Drake Aldan]

After going back to Slayer and playing casually for some time, I've started to dislike K Mappa as a general tool. If it's not RC'd, it feels negative on hit and block- which is fine, but some characters can start whiffing attacks (Ky 2D, Ram 2KK, Leo gatling series, etc.) to beat BDC P Mappa/Pilebunker/etc. I end up having to block, which isn't good at that range.

Sol can IB 5K > K Mappa and 5K punish as well (really no good!!!)

 

Watching Hase, he seems to never use Mappa except-

 

- when he can RC

- to chase down (like a movement option, or to catch backdash)

- to hit at tip (for more leeway if backdash is necessary)

 

I found it quite interesting.

 

Hase does some peculiar (well, to me) things.

 

- Lots of 5K IAD.

- Jump-in/IAD attack, canceled into j214K. (Seems pretty safe, knockdown on hit.)

- Confirms into 2D (cS > fS > cS/2K > 2D, 2K > cS > 2D, etc.)

- Use of BDC P Mappa as a "DP".

- j2K as a movement option after super/double jumping.

- 7/8, 66214K to escape the corner.

- Use of 214PS in neutral (rarely 214KS).

 

What are some other Hase habits you notice?

[Loli-Zero]

After pile bunker he does long FDC IAD j.D footloose. It can't be mashed out of, is safe on block, and combos in the corner on hit. I added this to my game and it helps a lot. You can do j.S j.K mixups too

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[fogelstrom]

What are some other Hase habits you notice?

Winning

[Nov Ganon]

Hey guys how are u starting the match ? What moves are you using? In the matchup thread is it possible to show the options each character has at the start of the round?

[fogelstrom]

Hmm... when playing against not so good people I usally start of with K Dandy because you can react on moves with slower recovery and punish with PB or CWH. If they backjump CWH. They do nothing use Under Pressure or empty Dandy throw.

But if it's better people I tend to play it safe. Mostly 5K, backdash, BDJC, IAD back. Just to let me get into my own footsies.

Basically you can do anything you god damn please really. Nothing is right nothing is wrong.

6P blows up Sin f.S, Sol f.S (not 100%), Leo f.S/5HS.
Slayer mirror I tend to use 2D alot at startup.

[Loli-Zero]

In a lot of matchups tight 214PP is a good way to start. If someone used a "safe" poke you will dodge it and hit them with the tip of pilebunker getting you some free corner push to start your momentum. If they block, It is spaced far enough that they can't get a good punish (maybe 2K > 2D or something like that). I also like to use 6HS if I notice someone is doing a lot of aggressive jumping or aerial moves to start off the round. You can hit IADs, stuff like greed siever, and Eddie flight for a big reward. I tend to only use these options after watching the opponent once or twice though.

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[MasterXDrake]

What can you do against Axl sparrow stance? 

[Loli-Zero]

IB free 2P CH to disrupt. You can buffer that into K Mappa or something to close the distance

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[Drake Aldan]

So what's the deal with reversal backdash/how does it work?

 

I've been getting stuck in the corner fighting El, sitting in crouch block and getting my RISC cranked.

I thought I really had no options, but... Slayer's backdash invul frames are as much as Pot's... I guess I never paid attention to it. I know I read it here before, I think, but it must've flew over my head.

I've always been doing BDC and never using the full backdash...

 

20f of invincibility, whiff punish cancels on reaction with P/K Mappa, DOT, etc.... I guess being stuck in the corner isn't so bad after all...

 

Can you mash out reversal backdash? (Should you mash it out?)

Can opponents call you out for it by using lows in blockstrings (is there a better way to sneak a backdash in)?

[fogelstrom]

So what's the deal with reversal backdash/how does it work?

 

I've been getting stuck in the corner fighting El, sitting in crouch block and getting my RISC cranked.

I thought I really had no options, but... Slayer's backdash invul frames are as much as Pot's... I guess I never paid attention to it. I know I read it here before, I think, but it must've flew over my head.

I've always been doing BDC and never using the full backdash...

 

20f of invincibility, whiff punish cancels on reaction with P/K Mappa, DOT, etc.... I guess being stuck in the corner isn't so bad after all...

 

Can you mash out reversal backdash? (Should you mash it out?)

Can opponents call you out for it by using lows in blockstrings (is there a better way to sneak a backdash in)?

 

You got 8F recovery if you do a normal backdash.

Potemkin has 1F of recovery. There's quite the difference.

You can BDJC, backdash jump cancel. That way you get invul frames added to your jump startup so in reality you get a jump with invul frames and can, if lucky or well timed, jump straight out from pressure.

You can't just mash because there is no input buffering (yes there is but it's 2F afaik so no point in mashing)

Best way to know how to utilize BDC/BDJC is to know frame data and blockstrings. Anywhere a blockstring isn't tight you technically could BDC/BDJC but it's alot easier said than done.

[fogelstrom]

IB free 2P CH to disrupt. You can buffer that into K Mappa or something to close the distance

Are you sure this works? I know some characters can 2P but I've never managed with Slayer.

For the time being I'm doing 6P after a low since Axl can't cancel a low into a low he has to go mid/high and 6P beats both them. But if he waits out the recovery and go low again you get hit wich sucks.

[Loli-Zero]

Haven't actually tried it, I was just making an assumption based on what other characters can do. It should work though. Sol gets a free 2D and that move is 7 frames. I suppose the hit box on 2P might not be right for hitting the chain. If that's the case 2K would probably work.

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[Dandy Chippu]

If you're feeling confident you can pilebunker his chains (seen it done, almost cried)

[Martikol]

Hey guys I have a couple of questions,

first,how do you deal with people who NEVER stops pushing buttons ( they never respect you no matter what you do)? because I just got rek'd by this millia player who actually knows her combos adding insult to injury 

also, how do I deal with millias wakeup game and blockstrings? what about sol?

 

lastly, Is it worth it to FD during almost inescapable blocktrings (i.e. millia) or should I just save the meter instead in case I need to DAA?

[fogelstrom]

Hey guys I have a couple of questions,

first,how do you deal with people who NEVER stops pushing buttons ( they never respect you no matter what you do)? because I just got rek'd by this millia player who actually knows her combos adding insult to injury 

also, how do I deal with millias wakeup game and blockstrings? what about sol?

 

lastly, Is it worth it to FD during almost inescapable blocktrings (i.e. millia) or should I just save the meter instead in case I need to DAA?

I will not go into how to deal with Millia and Sol specifics because we have matchup specifics threads for that. Just to make such information easier to find for everyone.

I know your pain and any Slayer player is going to run into someone like that. Know your frame data is REALLY good in this situation. Also you need to convert absolutely everything and get knockdown as much as possible. And for gods sake make sure you do meatys on these people.

For example 5K is +3 on block. You can do 5K, 5K, 5K, 236K on block. Nothing is tight but if they press between any hit it's CH.

2K is +4 on block. 2K, 2K, 2K, 5K is frame trap after frame trap. You can even attempty 2K, 5HS, 236K.

It's Late is +1 on block so if you ever get that it's free pressing 2K after. Just go straight into 236P and you can easily confirm hit to RC 214K-K.

c.S, f.S is +6 on block... obviously you can do whatever the hell you want here basically. 

Anything on block to IAD j.S(x), j.K works good against most mashers unless Millia mashes 5P.

I think it's rather boring when you end up having to play by numbers. Especially if I myself win over and over and the person just refuses to learn. Like getting 2K CH after EVERY It's Late on block. I get salty from me hitting that seriously. Because it's so stupid by the other person.

Also frame traps including 6P and 2HS is EXCELLENT. Like 2K, 2HS. CH for free combo. 6P CH is awesome close to corner and you can 236K, RC, 214K-K midscreen for combo there as well.

And I probably can't stress this enough. BDC P MAPPA. SERIOUSLY. You can wreck people like no tomorrow. 236K, BDC 236P, BDC 236P, BDC 236K, BDC 236P.

If you look at JP players many of them "tap" FD to time with the hits so you spend less meter. Xrd already has a lot more pushback than previous installments. So you at most need to FD 3 hits and they'll start wiffing. At that point you can jump or BDJC. But you can get predictable and people can IAD and air throw you if they're good.

All in all against certain characters I definitively think FD is a good use of tension. Certain Sol players, Ramlethal, Millia