[Xrd] Slayer Gameplay Discussion

[probe]

Hm yea, En is the only Slayer I see that uses 5H fairly frequently in pressure and sometimes in neutral. Can't say I've seen Spike or Eternal, how would you characterize their play?

[dwajio]

En loves 2K 5HS on block at max range, I saw him catch some people with that a good bit

[KJunk]

2K has pretty good frame advantage on block.  If you can train them to sit tight after a 2K (in fear of 5HS), it opens up options like 2K -> teleport or walk forward, which leads to either mixup or more pressure.  Just don't get too predictable with it... there are plenty of good things to do off a blocked 2K to keep them guessing.

[fogelstrom]

Hm yea, En is the only Slayer I see that uses 5H fairly frequently in pressure and sometimes in neutral. Can't say I've seen Spike or Eternal, how would you characterize their play?

Spike is like a slight cross of Hase/Taka. He can be find playing on A-cho. Though I've only seen him during the REVO videos posted from A-cho's youtube account. He playes red color and has the handle "spk". I was happy to randomly catch him as he was one of the best Slayers in previous installments.

Eternal playes on Spica Terrible on youtube. It's tourney matches posted from an arcade in Osaka. He playes original color and last time I saw him 12 dan. He playes a bit more cautiously so resambles En a bit but looks more comfortable with Xrd.

When great Slayer players is on the subject do anyone know if Kubo plays Xrd? Or does he only play poor man games such as Persona?

[MacArthur Blunts]

Ok here is something!

454 or 154. This is how top Slayers block. If you were to stay in blockstun, you block, if you can backdash, you will.

[probe]

Last time I saw Kubo was at KSB for one match on stream. As far as arcade play goes, I think he just destroyed everyone at release with like a 90% win rate then stopped playing after a few months. Also, didn't know 1 counts as a back input to backdash. Thanks mac!

[daymendou]

Corner 2D > OTG 2K > tiny delay > Meaty 6K on crouching Ky

To be honest, I never go for meaty 6K and nonmeaty It's Late combos

[MangoBlackTea]

Hey guys i want to play slayer in xrd, and i am fairly new to the xrd series of guilty gear. What are some things i should be doing in training mode with slayer on day 1? what should i be practicing?

[dwajio]

Hey guys i want to play slayer in xrd, and i am fairly new to the xrd series of guilty gear. What are some things i should be doing in training mode with slayer on day 1? what should i be practicing?

 

Well I'd say you should look further into the other forum posts, this is a good primer to slayer: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s538/sh/b96ea117-4088-4ab3-a7bc-5c6e67f36ce3/b577c8d0e03bf36f6abdc30607300c2b

 

That's from the Memoirs of a beginner thread, looks alright

 

Here's Daymendou's 1.1 XRD Slayer guide that's more up to date: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s581/sh/1608847e-5259-49db-b877-6ced5c7e4e9b/b890a68e5246fc8e89f549984d7bd533

 

Other than that you should go through your Challenge mode trials to get familiar with the character's moves. Get used to using BDC, BDC FD/Mappa/Dandystep ect

 

Personally I think having proper movement in XRD and Slayer in general is key to taking advantage of him, so play around with FDC jump, all your air to air options, you'll end up getting a lot of air to air trades and converting on the fly off those, stuff like jP jP dj jSHD j2K jPD stuff like that.

[daymendou]

The wiki also has a basic overview, though it's incomplete: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Slayer_%28GGXRD%29

 

Slayer is a close range character with powerful single hits, especially counterhits. Playing Slayer is all about controlling your spacing, which means you should focus on movement and selecting the right attacks. A large number of attacks move Slayer forward so he's very good at maintaining pressure. On the other hand, many of those moves are unsafe unless set up properly. Your general plan is to get in and stay in, mixing safe and unsafe moves to make the opponent hesitate to react.

 

On defense, Slayer has unique options to escape. His forward dash is a teleport, which sometimes allows him to simply travel past any attacks in his face and also lets him immediately move behind his opponent. His backdash ties for the longest invincibility and is the only one that can be canceled with a jump. In many cases, Slayer players prefer to backdash and jump instead of block, which should tell you how powerful this unique ability is.

 

To start, learn the range and speed of Slayer's normals. Every normal has its niche but for general purposes you can use any Punch or Kick and 6H. 5K, 2P and jP are safe options in many situations thanks to their range and speed. At close quarters, close S and far S keep the opponent blocking and signal the start of your pressure. 6P and 2H often counterhit opponents trying to stop your offense, thanks to their partial invincibility, but are slow.

 

Slayer's specials seem relatively unsafe but there are ways to make them dangerous for the opponent to respond to them. In particular, Back Dash Canceling (BDC) can make any of his specials invincible for the first few frames. For example, Mappa Hunch leaves Slayer at a frame disadvantage if the opponent blocks but using an invincible BDC Bite afterwards will make Mappa safe against any normals. You will need to use his specials to maintain pressure and you'll quickly learn how unsafe they can be in your beginning matches. However, you'll also find that they can be used to trick the opponent, especially when combined with BDC and Roman Cancels.

 

His signature special, Dandy Step, is the keystone to maintaining pressure because it starts his most reliable mixup. To fully utilize Dandy Step, you'll need to understand Attack Levels, which dictate how much blockstun is applied; 5H and 6H give the most blockstun but are also the slowest, 5K and 2K have slightly less range but are much faster, close S and far S apply the same blockstun as 5K and 2K but are only usable at very close range.

 

Dandy Step also briefly dodges physical attacks at the beginning. Thus, any gap in your pressure can invite the opponent to try to poke out, only for their attack to be dodged by a well-timed Dandy Step punish. The best Dandy Step followup for this purpose is the Punch attack, Pilebunker. Pilebunker has relatively great reach, very high damage, and gives a guaranteed knockdown. On the other hand, it is incredibly unsafe if blocked. Pilebunker is used less often in pressure but is very rewarding if you make a good read.

 

Slayer's mixup revolves around Dandy Step's S followup, Under Pressure. After using Under Pressure, Slayer can choose to follow it with It's Late, which must be blocked High.On block, Under Pressure leaves Slayer neutral with his opponent. If the opponent chooses to attack afterwards, Slayer has several ways to win: It's Late, Dandy Step, BDC Bite, or simply close S. If the opponent hesitates to attack, Slayer can continue into his mixup: the High from It's Late, the Low from 2K, or a grab. If played cleverly, Slayer can keep knocking down his opponent, forcing them to suffer an endless cycle of mixup and knockdowns.

 

Slayer High/Low mixup is supplemented by his great crossups. His forward dash is the main tool on this front. Much like BDC, Slayer can also cancel his forward dash (FDC); although this does not grant invincibility, it allows him to crossup with forward dash then immediately Dandy Step. He also has a short, fast airdash which allows him to crossup and land quickly for a High/Low mixup. Finally, Dandy Step's H followup, Helter Skelter, crosses up the opponent if close enough. Keep in mind that you lose these options in the corner.

 

Mixup options after knockdown:

2D (Low)

6K (High)

Under Pressure > It's Late (High)

Under Pressure > 2K (Low)

Under Pressure > BDC Bite or Throw

Under Pressure > forward dash (crossup)

Helter Skelter (crossup, High/Low)

Forward Dash > any of the above

 

As strong as Slayer's mixup seems on paper, a combination of mashing, grabbing, and jumping can defeat all of his mixup options and end his offense. However, Slayer is also able to harshly punish each of those 3 escape paths. Thus, playing Slayer is also about misleading your opponent: incite the enemy to take a risk under pressure and take their life for it.

[liquidrain]

So... I've been in the attempt to do the 21st challenge with Slayer for about an hour now and I just can't. How quick is this input? and how much does it really matter in matches? I'm thinking about learning Slayer as a main, because I'm new to GG and want to main someone, but like... if this is actually something needed I just... obviously don't have the input speed or something. 

[fogelstrom]

Challenges doesn't teach you how to play Slayer.

[_Sey]

Who do you guys think are Slayer's worst match ups?

Has any JP top Slayer ever put out some sort of matchup chart?

 

I'm still a scrubby Slayer but so far Sin/Axl/Venom/(good)Zato have all been pretty hellish.

Sol has been OK even though he can be pretty wild and build huge momentum.

tbh I feel Ky is a bit harder to deal with than Sol but I admit I often make a lot of mistakes/get too impatient when dealing with his projectils... oh, and messing up bdc bite vs. his 6H or bdc jump back vs. his fullscreen projectile oki doesn't help either, I guess he's likely not that bad of a match up considering how strong Slayer's okizeme can be vs. him.

[Flick]

Who do you guys think are Slayer's worst match ups?

Has any JP top Slayer ever put out some sort of matchup chart?

 

I'm still a scrubby Slayer but so far Sin/Axl/Venom/(good)Zato have all been pretty hellish.

Sol has been OK even though he can be pretty wild and build huge momentum.

tbh I feel Ky is a bit harder to deal with than Sol but I admit I often make a lot of mistakes/get too impatient when dealing with his projectils... oh, and messing up bdc bite vs. his 6H or bdc jump back vs. his fullscreen projectile oki doesn't help either, I guess he's likely not that bad of a match up considering how strong Slayer's okizeme can be vs. him.

Potemkin has always been Slayer's worst matchup...

[CounterHit-DOT]

There is a lot of ridiculous Match-ups, but I say in priority Chipp, Millia, Zato  and Bedman. Then Potemkin, Ky, Elphelt, Axl and Leo, Faust.

[clams419]

Why would you say Bedman is such a bad MU? I've been playing it a lot recently and it seems pretty even.

 

I totally agree with Zato, Faust, Pot, Elph and Axl though. Very hard to play at the space you want to be at when they have all the tools to keep you out or beat you at that range.

[fogelstrom]

I don't see Slayer having any(?) favourable matchups. Potemkin undoubtly worst.
But due to EU online scene it's more player matchup rather than character matchup.

[Mr. Fancypants]

Slayer's high skill floor makes a lot of good matchups seem bad. Consistently BDC super jumping out of oki and landing BDC bite against pressure is where Slayer gets to start playing his game against the rest of the cast.

Because of this, Slayer gets larger rewards from strong use of mechanics than other characters. Instant blocking to get +1 gives you the opportunity to BDC out of pressure, where no other character can get out safely. Several of your key meterless combos are links.

 

A lot of slayers game is based on making strong reads in neutral. With consistent, intelligent use of BDCs, he can keep playing a "neutral game" where any other character would be forced to defend against an opponent's pressure. Without them, Slayer is a read-based character without a full toolkit in the neutral game.

Slayer gets a lot of mileage out of whiff punishing with Dandy step, and can build a solid gameplan around it. Eventually, however, Slayer will get knocked down, thrown, or forced to block. Slayer is weaker on defense than a lot of the cast. He uses BDCs and his slippery mobility to take advantage of neutral situations where he's negative, or as a response to a strong approach from his opponent. When under pressure, BDC is Slayer's ace-in-the-hole, Superjumping out of oki, imperfect blockstrings (instant-block everything, anyone?), or BDC-biting anything that has a hole in it. This lets Slayer play a truly unique game where his opponent must play a truly frame-perfect game. At any time, Slayer can make the right read and just get out for free.

 

When you're chosing whether or not you want to play slayer, here are the facts you consider:
BDC is the only reversal option in the game that can BEAT safe jumps.
BDC Superjump gets out of (nearly) every oki setup in the game.

BDC DOT is invincible until the active frames, and cannot be blocked up close unless the opponent is blocking BEFORE the superfreeze.

Slayer has one of the highest execution barriers in the game, and is required to use these motions frequently throughout the match.

If you think slayer is for you, then go to training mode, and start drilling
6321447H (Instant BDC bite)
44632147H (Delayed BDC bite)
663214H (FDC bite)

6641236H (crossup FDC bite)
Once you can do 10 in a row on either side without messing up, set the computer to jump, then try to catch them with all of these options on their landing to tighten your timing. Again, do 10 in a row on either side. Try to run this drill at least once a week to keep your execution tight.

When you have these options mastered, start working on 6321449S (BDC DoT) If you find yourself jumping, do 63214467S. They're both good.

When you're comfortable with your bite motions, program the computer (or grab a friend!) to knock you down and apply safe-jump oki against you. BDC Bite it ad nauseum. If, after several attempts, the bite seems impossible, try to BDC superjump out of the pressure. If you're still getting hit, you know your BDC timing is poor. If you're getting out, then you know that EITHER your bite timing isn't fast enough to keep the invincibility frames OR, the setup is safe against bite.

If you still like playing Slayer after putting yourself through this, then welcome to the club. Everything's gravy from here.

Complicated tech
Hours spent in training mode
Playing Slayer: Bites

[koufdell]

Slayer's high skill floor makes a lot of good matchups seem bad. Consistently BDC super jumping out of oki and landing BDC bite against pressure is where Slayer gets to start playing his game against the rest of the cast.

Because of this, Slayer gets larger rewards from strong use of mechanics than other characters. Instant blocking to get +1 gives you the opportunity to BDC out of pressure, where no other character can get out safely. Several of your key meterless combos are links.

 

A lot of slayers game is based on making strong reads in neutral. With consistent, intelligent use of BDCs, he can keep playing a "neutral game" where any other character would be forced to defend against an opponent's pressure. Without them, Slayer is a read-based character without a full toolkit in the neutral game.

Slayer gets a lot of mileage out of whiff punishing with Dandy step, and can build a solid gameplan around it. Eventually, however, Slayer will get knocked down, thrown, or forced to block. Slayer is weaker on defense than a lot of the cast. He uses BDCs and his slippery mobility to take advantage of neutral situations where he's negative, or as a response to a strong approach from his opponent. When under pressure, BDC is Slayer's ace-in-the-hole, Superjumping out of oki, imperfect blockstrings (instant-block everything, anyone?), or BDC-biting anything that has a hole in it. This lets Slayer play a truly unique game where his opponent must play a truly frame-perfect game. At any time, Slayer can make the right read and just get out for free.

 

When you're chosing whether or not you want to play slayer, here are the facts you consider:

BDC is the only reversal option in the game that can BEAT safe jumps.

BDC Superjump gets out of (nearly) every oki setup in the game.

BDC DOT is invincible until the active frames, and cannot be blocked up close unless the opponent is blocking BEFORE the superfreeze.

Slayer has one of the highest execution barriers in the game, and is required to use these motions frequently throughout the match.

If you think slayer is for you, then go to training mode, and start drilling

6321447H (Instant BDC bite)

44632147H (Delayed BDC bite)

663214H (FDC bite)

6641236H (crossup FDC bite)

Once you can do 10 in a row on either side without messing up, set the computer to jump, then try to catch them with all of these options on their landing to tighten your timing. Again, do 10 in a row on either side. Try to run this drill at least once a week to keep your execution tight.

When you have these options mastered, start working on 6321449S (BDC DoT) If you find yourself jumping, do 63214467S. They're both good.

When you're comfortable with your bite motions, program the computer (or grab a friend!) to knock you down and apply safe-jump oki against you. BDC Bite it ad nauseum. If, after several attempts, the bite seems impossible, try to BDC superjump out of the pressure. If you're still getting hit, you know your BDC timing is poor. If you're getting out, then you know that EITHER your bite timing isn't fast enough to keep the invincibility frames OR, the setup is safe against bite.

If you still like playing Slayer after putting yourself through this, then welcome to the club. Everything's gravy from here.

Complicated tech

Hours spent in training mode

Playing Slayer: Bites

just a tip doing bdc dot like this to get the faster cancel possible 63214647   hope it works

[_Sey]

If you think slayer is for you, then go to training mode, and start drilling

6321447H (Instant BDC bite)

44632147H (Delayed BDC bite)

In what kind of situations is delayed bdc bite useful? instant bdc bite is pretty obvious, but I'm not sure if I understand where/why you'd use backdash into bite, wouldn't you just end up out of range + whiff bite?

[Sashi]

Is there a trick to getting IAD j.SK j.214K to hit twice? Is it a timing or spacing thing?

[Mr. Fancypants]

In what kind of situations is delayed bdc bite useful? instant bdc bite is pretty obvious, but I'm not sure if I understand where/why you'd use backdash into bite, wouldn't you just end up out of range + whiff bite?

 

It can be nice against forward-moving attacks with short active frames: Ky 6k, Sol (raw) Fafnir, etc. Also as an answer to dive-kicky moves with longer active frames followed by vulnerable landing recovery: I-No j.236P/K/S dives, Leo j.D.

 

You're right to call that out though. It's by far the most situational option, but it's nice to have in your kit when you're in situations where you don't have the frames to challenge your opponent with a normal.

 

 

Is there a trick to getting IAD j.SK j.214K to hit twice? Is it a timing or spacing thing?

Timing, spacing, and opponent hitbox all factor into this. The timing of the normals after the IAD also matter, if you do the j.SK too late in the airdash, then by the time you do j.214k, you're falling too quickly to get the second hit.

[daymendou]

Revelator: Dust K Pile K Pile works again

Is anyone interested in updating the wiki? I want to update the movelist comments; compare to the Sol wiki. When I complete my draft, I'll post it here first.

[dwajio]

Revelator: Dust K Pile K Pile works again

Is anyone interested in updating the wiki? I want to update the movelist comments; compare to the Sol wiki. When I complete my draft, I'll post it here first.

Yessssssssssss

[Mr. Fancypants]

Revelator: Dust K Pile K Pile works again

Is anyone interested in updating the wiki? I want to update the movelist comments; compare to the Sol wiki. When I complete my draft, I'll post it here first.

I would LOVE an updated Wiki. How can I help?