MikelAL93

[Xrd] May Gameplay Discussion

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I'm riding in on Yo-Motha~

 

Black-

 

 

 

@Ten$ion: Thinking there is great value in this OKI, could be meaty enough to always stuff back dashes. I'll look into it. 

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Purely because I really cannot be bothered testing it with absolutely everybody in the cast, is May's 6P the only guaranteed DAA beating normal in the game that isn't Eddie?

 

I regularly sniff out DAAs and stick a 6p in there to beat them - much to the chagrin of the people doing the thing. 

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Picking up May are all of her Safejumps manually timed? Realize all her hard knockdowns give her the opportunity, but just wasn't sure if she had something Like Ky or Ram's super easy safe jump setups that work pretty much universally.

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Picking up May are all of her Safejumps manually timed? Realize all her hard knockdowns give her the opportunity, but just wasn't sure if she had something Like Ky or Ram's super easy safe jump setups that work pretty much universally.

 

 


Everybody gets up with different timing. What would be an auto-safe jump on some whiffs completely on others or isn't a safejump.

'Pretty much universally' - have you seen them work on Chipp, Sin and Ky? These are the slowest two and fastest waking up, there's 7-10 frames difference in their wakeups. You will have to manually delay them but the simplest safejumps may has are:

Throw, iad, j.2h
Ambiguous safejump that can be made to hit either front or back [no crossup assist].



2d, jump 
The 'old school'. Whiff a j.p into safe j.button, or empty jump low or late air dash.

 

 

Edited by raisedbyfinches

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Safe jump from 2D > [4]6S still works on everybody with timing adjustment IIRC. That's my usual safe jump (though I'm trying to learn others) and it seems to work on fast risers like Sin. I may go back through and check my homework, though.

Also, don't worry about trying to find a universal timing because (1) they don't exist and (2) trust me, it's easy to get used to adjusting the timing for characters like Sin. I can do it and I suck, lol.

Edited by Ben Reed

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Safe jump from 2D > [4]6S still works on everybody with timing adjustment IIRC. That's my usual safe jump (though I'm trying to learn others) and it seems to work on fast risers like Sin. I may go back through and check my homework, though.

 


Timing adjustment is the 'manual' he's talking about. There are plenty more I didn't list but I'm not gonna re-write all the bits off the wiki. 

 

Edited by raisedbyfinches

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How much does May like to put the opponent in the corner and why? Like, are there tools for her that become just a ton more useful if you have your opponent in the corner compared to midscreen? If I want my play to focus more on corner push, should I stop going for dolphin and ball Oki setups in favour of ending with S HD and HS HD and is that worth it? I assume most of this is match up specific but general tips would be great.

Also a more general question, how do I make anti air air throw work for me? Often I find grounded normals easier to anti air with compared to air throw such as 2H and the occasional 6H. Is it a matter of spacing or more about the match up?

Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk

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5H becomes a bit better in the corner since there's less pushback there. Mostly better for run-in punish combos, but also just good for general pressure. Jack people's RISC up and then try and counter hit them when they try to stop you.

6H gets better too because you run SLIGHTLY more risk of getting interrupted on the ground, but no chance anymore they can move backward and make it whiff, and on air block almost nobody can do anything about 6H > Applause string. Not a gigantic lockdown tool, but good to keep people still if they get jumpy in the corner.

TBH at midscreen with meter to YRC i wouldn't end with [4]6S/H for corner push if I could help it. Reason for this is simply cause at midscreen you can go for a crossup with the meaty ball drop setups (beach ball YRC as they wake up, mix up between IAD > ball drop > jH from the other side or just forward jump > ball drop > same side jH for a fake crossup.

Against powerful characters at neutral vs May without meterless reversals (read: Elphelt) I would focus on 2D > Applause for the Dolphin oki rather than corner push. Characters like Elph you REALLY need to pin down more than get them to the corner, and hoops can help in that regard. 

I would actually avoid ending with [4]6H midscreen in general unless you're close to the corner for wallstick. for an HD ender, end with [4]6S instead because you get an easy safe jump that way, which can be very useful against characters with DPs. Take DP off the table and then go for stuff like ball drop/Applause setups.

Against Potemkin it's not a big deal, get your fill of [4]6H, your main goal is just to keep him out anyway. This is not to say to never mix him up with 2D > Applause or ball drop and the like -- just be careful about going in too hard on him and handing the life lead back to him off a defensive opportunity you didn't have to give him.

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Against powerful characters at neutral vs May without meterless reversals (read: Elphelt) I would focus on 2D > Applause for the Dolphin oki rather than corner push. Characters like Elph you REALLY need to pin down more than get them to the corner, and hoops can help in that regard. 

I was thinking the opposite 2D->Ball Oki midscreen against people without uppercuts and 2D->dolphin oki against those that do.  . Why do you think dolphin oki is better midscreen? Dolphin can be used to pin down people with uppercuts whereas if you use a ball you have to pin them down with a meaty or it is worthless. Not only that if they block your ball mixup you get a safe dolphin summon if you went for the low mixup to continue pressure with. Also midscreen ball combo's are higher damage and will guarantee a corner knockdown whereas if you get a dolphin mixup you really just get a combo into 2D and repeat the mixup. If you have the meter Ball YRC is strong against everyone but Leo.

 

 

 

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How much does May like to put the opponent in the corner and why? Like, are there tools for her that become just a ton more useful if you have your opponent in the corner compared to midscreen? If I want my play to focus more on corner push, should I stop going for dolphin and ball Oki setups in favour of ending with S HD and HS HD and is that worth it? I assume most of this is match up specific but general tips would be great.

Also a more general question, how do I make anti air air throw work for me? Often I find grounded normals easier to anti air with compared to air throw such as 2H and the occasional 6H. Is it a matter of spacing or more about the match up?

Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk
 

I find my game has a very different focus in the corner. 

Suddenly people can't DAA any more for fear of a CH 6p into dead [May's 6p is probably the only normal in the game that clean counterhits every DAA in a string], stun becomes an issue and the tiny pushback on our very safe c5s makes the close game stronger. Not many people realise that ball combos still exist in the corner even if the ball is bouncing away from it but hoop really becomes ridiculous. I'm also not particularly worrying just about knockdowns because I have a whole bunch of tech traps to air throw in the corner too [sweep > hshd wall stick puts them at a good height to run in and air throw a tech for example]. Your OHK game still exists because you can just put them straight back into the corner with a hoop over them or you can be really ridiculous and decide you just want them in the other corner and use OHK to put them over there [when you really feel yourself]. 

In the corner your punish combo damage without setups is terrifying and the combos with setups {for example - 6k, ]p[, 5s 5h wall stick > whatever} is amazing. 

Midscreen if you are going against somebody without a reversal you can get a heck of a lot of 'latent carry' by doing 41236k, 6k and watching as their corpse gets pushed along the stage and your instant cancel high/low mixup then puts them in a very hard situation [the same one again and in the corner]. 

@chase you're ignoring the fact that hoop oki offers you more ways to mix up and at different points in the string and kills backdashes [ball is nowhere near as good as hoop against Potemkin]. Its not quite as black and white as you are making out. 

tl;dr - 

Does she like it: yes
Why: damage becomes utterly hilarious, tools like 6p become terrifying
Stop going for ball and hoop oki in favour of HD: no, a combo off of ball or hoop will stick them there

Air throw: practice the shit out of it, it comes with experience in knowing spacing, height, which characters have buttons you ain't gonna get close to, learning the j.6p+h option select can help too. 

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@chase you're ignoring the fact that hoop oki offers you more ways to mix up and at different points in the string and kills backdashes [ball is nowhere near as good as hoop against Potemkin]. Its not quite as black and white as you are making out. 

 

Still new to May, literally picked her up last week so that was meant as a legitimate question : P hadn't thought of back dashes.

So i just started looking into the mixups I was doing in ball and realized they are character specific. Basically, only on Elphelt, Chipp, and Venom can you do the same dolphin style low/overhead mixup on wakeup and get the ball combos with a dash. These work on Millia, Ramlethal, and Zato also but you must be point blank with the timing for the meaty 6K combo is literally ASAP which is frankly impractical. Bedman & Faust also work but the extended ball combos don't work on them midscreen so there is no point going for them. On Elphelt and Venom ball seems to have more options, but after doing some testing over the rest of the cast I'm realizing the options I found messing around with Elphelt in training aren't universal like I thought they were : (.
 

Extended ball combo off 2D is just meaty move->2K->2D->Ball Hit->IAD->j.S->j.H->land->j.H->jD->djc->j.H->j.D->Ensengna. Got that from one the japanese may's and didn't realize for meaty overhead into that it was character specific : ( Off a meaty overhead combo deals about 180 to Elphelt off an overhead which is a lot more than anything from dolphin. Low is over 200 damage meterless.
 

Suddenly people can't DAA any more for fear of a CH 6p into dead [May's 6p is probably the only normal in the game that clean counterhits every DAA in a string], stun becomes an issue and the tiny pushback on our very safe c5s makes the close game stronger.

Found this interesting in combination with the death combo I posted the other day so decided to test it out.

So 6P doesn't seem to punish a dead angle on block (too slow) my god i wish it did. So you have to use it late to get the dead angle to whiff or it has to be a dead angle that hits only the upper half of her body so 6P goes through it. I couldn't get 6P to ever hit counter-hit against a dead angle though. It beats through mashing, jab mashing, and everything else CH but dead angle doesn't seem to have any vulnerable counter hit frame.

But j.S deep into slight delay 6P beats both throw mashing on instant guard and dead angle in the corner for these characters. Get a beefy corner combo from it on them.

Chipp, Zato, Axl, Milia, May. 

Everyone else seemed pretty impractical if you did win except maybe Faust, his can be out ranged kinda easily but you'll lose if your in range. 

 

While testing this found out 6K actually beats Ky and Venom's Dead Angle. So if you have dolphin and go for a meaty->6K mixup you OS against dead angle on those 2 characters. Didn't test all the ones 6K beats because I'm hungry and after testing those last 2 things on the whole cast I'm burnt out of training mode for the day, lol.

 

 

Edited by ChaseRLewis

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5k 6k (ball hits) 5d
5k 2d [4]6s, (ball hits) iad.sh, j.shd dj.hd ensenga

Pretty universal ball mixup

Yeah just thought she had the option to do raw meaty 6K like dolphin also. That is character specific : (

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Any pointers on fighting Axl? I looked in match up thread and didn't see anything. Thanks in advance guys

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Any pointers on fighting Axl? I looked in match up thread and didn't see anything. Thanks in advance guys




get as far from him as you can, put stuff on screen, use that to control the space (because he then can't) and prepare for him to rensen to try to get rid of stuff

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I wrote some stuff up on the may vs Potemkin match up. Good tech in this
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s608/sh/c8287bf3-7fdb-488f-b020-be9e54325a8b/cffc300d39cf527c04bfe3c8e39c65c2





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get as far from him as you can, put stuff on screen, use that to control the space (because he then can't) and prepare for him to rensen to try to get rid of stuff

This is completely opposite of what I was thinkin more so bc Axl is a zoning char as well. But thank you :)

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This is completely opposite of what I was thinkin more so bc Axl is a zoning char as well. But thank you

:)



He can't zone even remotely well when you have hoops and ball going on, at which point you control pretty much everything

you're not trying to chip/zone him, you're trying to shut his game down completely

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This is completely opposite of what I was thinkin more so bc Axl is a zoning char as well. But thank you :)

Reason raisedbyfinches is saying that is if you have a hoop or ball active then you can move in safely and if he tries to counter poke you he risks getting hit and you getting opportunities off the hit. At the least can get in if he gets hit by a ball or hoop.

Also unless he does his sparrow stance he can't control full screen so there is a bit of dhalsim factor you can use against him. Ball YRC full screen if you think you'll get sniped by sparrow. Also once you hit a 2D your ball mixups are super strong against him because of his grounded dp.

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I gotta learn the ball mix ups been using her for a few weeks now but haven't watched to many vids. If u guys can, gove me some people to look up I have alot of combos just need better ball mix ups. ThanKS again for the information guys

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Reason raisedbyfinches is saying that is if you have a hoop or ball active then you can move in safely and if he tries to counter poke you he risks getting hit and you getting opportunities off the hit. At the least can get in if he gets hit by a ball or hoop.

Also unless he does his sparrow stance he can't control full screen so there is a bit of dhalsim factor you can use against him. Ball YRC full screen if you think you'll get sniped by sparrow. Also once you hit a 2D your ball mixups are super strong against him because of his grounded dp.

The only problem is May loses all Balls/Hoops when she gets hit. So one good poke and your whole set-up is gone.

In my opinion, Balls shouldn't disappear when you get hit, but we'll see what changes come in the Revelator update.

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The only problem is May loses all Balls/Hoops when she gets hit. So one good poke and your whole set-up is gone.

In my opinion, Balls shouldn't disappear when you get hit, but we'll see what changes come in the Revelator update.





we already know the changes though, there's already lots of kazuki, some teruru and Syo (yes!!!) on goldenrody's YouTube channel.

May's to watch (and what their player ID may roughly contain):

Syo (しょ)
Efute (えふて)
Teruru (てるる)
Kedako (けだこ)
Kazuki (かずぃ)
Ruu (るう)

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We already know the changes though, there's already lots of kazuki, some teruru and Syo (yes!!!) on goldenrody's YouTube channel.

 

But will those changes remain when we get the console release? Weren't there additional changes when Xrd -Sign- came to console?

 
Edited by 2ndState

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Nope. There were no additional balance changes when Xrd first hit console. The next balance change came when they brought the console characters to arcades 2-3 months later with the 1.1 rebalance patch.

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