[Xrd] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

[Final Ultima]

I'm pretty sure you can still do a regular Roman Cancel.

[ssj2jeff]

so i was watchin this video of this player going hard in the paint with sol and i saw him do some pretty nifty stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiJWrtUn0jw

at 1:19:10 he does bandit revolver in his block string and whiff RCs it to an over head. looks like he fumbles it but there's alot of potential right there. i bet you could even empty jump it to 2k/2D if you wanted to

also fafnir looks extremely strong in this game. it looks like it's safe on block and it leads to dust loop on counter hit

[Nainsoo]

http://youtu.be/KiJWrtUn0jw I saw a pretty cool start to a combo that was dropped (pretty sure due to error), but at 1:03:49 it went like 2D>BR PRC AD>j.D>2H>j.D and then he mistimed the last j.D....and then did another variation of that at 1:05:02 I'll probably edit this later to update whom else he plays against.

EDIT:

Another cool combo vs May http://youtu.be/KiJWrtUn0jw?t=1h12m1s though again, dropped. I just like that you can follow up grab PRC > 2H > blahblahblah .... the Sol from this video seems to be using PRC in ways I haven't seen other Sol players use it yet.

Against Bedman, WT > j.S>j.D>j.S>j.D>VV (might just be against Bedman 'cause of his huge hitbox) and

5K>2D>BR PRC AD>j.D>2D>j.D>j.D>j.D>j.S>j.D>VV

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

with sidewinder gone seems like there's no point to RCing BR

Reading this statement makes me feel very old.

[Greyvangelist]

haven't watched too much footage yet but is Sol's Grand Viper just really awful? I mean going back to #R GV is of course a huge nerf but it doesn't even seem to go very far at all, unless it's still mashable and just no one was doing it.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Reading this statement makes me feel very old.

lol

haven't watched too much footage yet but is Sol's Grand Viper just really awful? I mean going back to #R GV is of course a huge nerf but it doesn't even seem to go very far at all, unless it's still mashable and just no one was doing it.

GV is and has always been mashable.

[Dreiko]

How exactly do you mash it in this? Is it the AC "mash 2 buttons while hitting 46464646" thing or just mash S? I'm on pad so the 46464 thing is pretty hard for me to do enough to get the clean hit in AC so with this change to GV I thought I would not have to do that any more.

[BladeOfJustice7]

How exactly do you mash it in this? Is it the AC "mash 2 buttons while hitting 46464646" thing or just mash S?

I'm certain it's the same, my #R days were unorthodox and scrubby, I'm sure someone oldschool can confirm it. But it's always been mashable and I'm certain the manner in which you mash has always been the same.

I'm on pad so the 46464 thing is pretty hard for me to do enough to get the clean hit in AC so with this change to GV I thought I would not have to do that any more.

Your Sol mod, and my friend both play competent Sol's on pads, and they get it out. You just need to put more tamashii into it. Have you watched VR's GV tutorial?

EDIT: What's the #R, Slash frame data for Fafnir? I don't see much Sol's using it to get in close or to maintain pressure, is the static difference bad or are they unaware of its uses?

Edited February 22, 2014 by BladeOfJustice7

[Final Ultima]

haven't watched too much footage yet but is Sol's Grand Viper just really awful? I mean going back to #R GV is of course a huge nerf but it doesn't even seem to go very far at all, unless it's still mashable and just no one was doing it.

 

As previously mentioned, it's still mashable. It's pretty much back to how it was during #Reload. It's a shame that we lost the far more useful Accent Core version, granted... but there is a silver lining. Now we've got (DI) Grand Viper, which travels at about twice the normal speed and ends with effectively days of untechable time, leading into a free follow-up combo on hit.

 

How exactly do you mash it in this? Is it the AC "mash 2 buttons while hitting 46464646" thing or just mash S? I'm on pad so the 46464 thing is pretty hard for me to do enough to get the clean hit in AC so with this change to GV I thought I would not have to do that any more.

 

I personally mash 191919 and S+HS. Hitting a diagonal counts for two directional inputs.

 

What's the #R, Slash frame data for Fafnir? I don't see much Sol's using it to get in close or to maintain pressure, is the static difference bad or are they unaware of its uses?

 

Start-up: 17

Active: 3

Recovery: 13

Static Difference: +3

[Tofma]

Does Sol still have his Dustloop that was shown in the first trailer? Haven't seen anybody do it in a match yet.

Waiting for HOS.

[Orrax]

I thought the start-up in #R was 15 frames?

It's not very good for maintaining pressure, or at least it didn't used to be back then. You could use it to sometimes catch jump outs after 2S, and it was ok at max range, but still not that great.

Yes, I've seen two rep dustloops. I saw a few at the end of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5JWypA_lcI&t. I haven't watched anything but the last five minutes or so, though, so there may be more examples.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Orrax

[BladeOfJustice7]

I thought the start-up in #R was 15 frames?

It's not very good for maintaining pressure, or at least it didn't used to be back then. You could use it to sometimes catch jump outs after 2S, and it was ok at max range, but still not that great.

I thought it would really help out his neutral pressure game just as it did for him AC>ACR. Since it allows how to extend his pokes, get grab damage off hits, and maintain pressure outside of gunflame. It looks like it'll be absolutely terrifying in DI, since it does 3 hits.

Does anyone else think you can combo off of DI GV without the use of meter?

[Final Ultima]

Well Fafnir has gone back to being uncancelable, which is obviously a pretty big limitation you need to work around. It does look a lot better on hit now compared to #Reload though (already justifying itself as a potential combo part) and it does cause tumbling on Counter Hit, which I imagine will only incentivise its use over time.

As for (DI) Grand Viper, you can almost certainly combo off it in the corner. Actually, considering Sol's movement speed in Dragon Install, mid-screen might not be too farfetched either.

[Dreiko]

I personally mash 191919 and S+HS. Hitting a diagonal counts for two directional inputs.

Ohhhhh! That's useful, thanks. I thought only 4 and 6 counted, this might make the difference. I mash S and K since that's where my fingers are positioned (I piano the face buttons on pad) so if it doesn't have any difference to S + H that will be ok. Well, I was mainly an Order Sol player in the past so I guess it makes sense I don't know everything yet. As someone above said I'll just have to put more soul into it. :D

[cynistar]

Hey guys, I'm new to Guilty Gear but I'm learning this game. I currently live in Japan and I'll be playing a lot today with one of my buddies. Is there anything you'd like me to test out for you guys? I'll do whatever I can to bring in info while it's still arcade exclusive.

You can post here or tweet me @cynistar742 if you have something you want me to test. I'll be tweeting out my thoughts and things I figure out.

[Final Ultima]

Your help would be very much appreciated. You mention that you're new to the game, so I'll keep it simple. If you have a problem with any of the following, feel free to disregard.

Are there any altered gatling combinations or Counter Hit properties on Sol's normals? If you don't know, what happens during a CH 6P or CH j.D near the corner?

After landing a Dust Attack (5D) in the corner, if you perform a Homing Dash (6 after 5D), what combos are possible off a low wall stick?

Can you continue a combo after an air Bandit Revolver (j.236K) on air hit? Say during an air combo, pre-double jump?

(DI) Bandit Bringer (236[K] during Dragon Install) was reported to cause sliding on hit. If this is the case, how long is the slide, and what combos are possible?

What combo follow-ups are possible in the corner after a (DI) Grand Viper (214S during Dragon Install)? Is a combo possible mid-screen?

Is Fafnir (41236HS) plus on block or even Instant Block? How does (DI) Fafnir (41236HS during Dragon Install) compare to the regular version (both on block and hit)? Fafnir on Counter Hit causes tumbling. Can you combo after this with or without Grand Viper mid-screen?

Is Kudakero (j.214K) safe on block when covered by the flame that emerges from the ground? Is (DI) Kudakero (j.214K during Dragon Install) safe on block, or even plus? Is Kudakero into Fafnir possible? Is it possible to combo off a cross-up (DI) Kudakero?

Edit: I caught your PM. It's a shame you weren't able to get this message before you got to the arcade, but these things happen. Don't worry about it.

[Brent-quest]

Dragon Install looking more and more legit. Seems even to be + frames on activation? Tyrant Rave does massive chip on block in DI mode and seems like you should always try time the end of DI with this as it will push back really far and give you space during recovery. You're gonna lose the tension anyway so you might as well.

[GreekAngel]

Um, hi guys. I just noticed during some Xrd videos that Dragon install no longer goes away on hard knockdown. I assume they made it that way so that it will be less risky to use it in battle. I hope someone didn't already address this point, but I figured it should be brought up regardless :3

[BladeOfJustice7]

Dragon Install looking more and more legit. Seems even to be + frames on activation? Tyrant Rave does massive chip on block in DI mode and seems like you should always try time the end of DI with this as it will push back really far and give you space during recovery. You're gonna lose the tension anyway so you might as well.

Yeah it definitely looks like it could be used for reversal options. DI VV doesn't seem to be as damaging as it used to be though, I guess that's due to Tyrant Rave becoming Proton Cannon.

Um, hi guys. I just noticed during some Xrd videos that Dragon install no longer goes away on hard knockdown. I assume they made it that way so that it will be less risky to use it in battle. I hope someone didn't already address this point, but I figured it should be brought up regardless :3

it's been known since location tests.

6hs looks significantly faster, it appears to no longer be in constant CH state, ground on CH. It looks actually useful now.

[D.R.F.]

Is new 6h 1 hit like hos'?

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[Final Ultima]

6HS is 1 hit now, correct.

I'm actually not too sure about it being all that much faster though. It looks to me like Sol pauses briefly during start-up and then catches up by swinging down faster than he used to, so it gives the illusion of being faster than it is.

[D.R.F.]

It looks like it could be decent for pressure and ending pressure, but for sols combo routes it probably won't be used for knockdown. Again these are the main uses I think for it so maybe im thinking too linear

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[Brent-quest]

can Kudakero be YRC'ed to get a downward momentum shift? more interested in the application and properties of 6HS also. Does it combo in to BB on CH?

Edited February 24, 2014 by Brent-quest

[Final Ultima]

It looks like it could be decent for pressure and ending pressure, but for sols combo routes it probably won't be used for knockdown. Again these are the main uses I think for it so maybe im thinking too linear

 

It has its advantages. It's a special cancelable knockdown, and unlike 2D you'll be able to get knockdown from it on air hit, so you can cancel it into Gun Flame (Feint) for some additional meter and still get oki.

more interested in the application and properties of 6HS also. Does it combo in to BB on CH?

 

Judging from the ground bounce, probably.

[Dreiko]

I saw a combo where the dude went into fafnir from a standard corner D loop, pretty late in the combo too. He was doing the "jD jD delay jD land jD" variant as opposed to the "jD delay jD land jD" one and got it in after two reps, then seemed to follow with 2S>2H>VV, though you may be able to get even more stuff I think.