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[Xrd] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

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I've read several posts here that DI BR's last active frames hits high or overhead. Does DI BR's first active frames also hit hits high?

 

Edit: It doesn't (darn it! :( I thought it would be cool if it does) sorry for the unnecessary post. 

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It's "tradition" for me to ask this question:

 

What all can you do with Dragon Install (this time around)? :D

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Yo here's a burning question I've had for months:
What does Sol do against Axl's stances at fullscreen?

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Sometimes riot stamp can go right through his stance, i've seen ti occasionally and it's not something to be abused, but ti is an occasional option

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Just fyi, we decided on locking the Q&A thread until release, for now just using this topic for questions/discussion is enough. Q&A/FAQ thread will be revamped after release with a 101 included. Questions will be much easier to answer specifically once it's out so that will be reopened for questions. Feel free to keep questions/discussion going in here til then.

On DI use, it definitely looks stronger than it has been in the past. Main use seems to be for comboing into it to increase damage, more so if it will kill. Specifically WT into DI combos look good now. It's good for significant comeback attempts. There's also the fact that invulnerability lasts through the entire recovery of activation (DI > VV/TR through stuff).

It still looks like there isn't much reason to use it when you're at an advantageous situation in a match (unless it's in a combo that will kill, any hit in DI could be converted to a kill, or you want to force them to burst or something). Some reasons are the recovery animation of course, for if you weren't in a position to end DI safely. You also lose your meter. Another thing worth noting, while DI combos build a ton of meter for yourself, it also gives the opponent a ton. Especially hitting them with DI TR. So if it doesn't kill them, they get a lot to work with afterwards while you drop to 0.

You'll probably get more detailed answers soon.

On Axl stance attacks, I can't say for certain without being able to try it. I'm also not familiar with exactly what limitations he has as far as what angle he throws his chain at in succession. There are probably some good examples in vids.

The chains definitely extend his hurtbox way out though. You can surely 6P, GV, or VV the high chain, and maybe middle as well. You can probably run under high too although you wouldn't get far before having to block a lower chain. I'm wondering if Fafnir would duck under high chain and CH too (I've seen it go under Ino dash attacks). As for low chain maybe you can pre-emptive BB or RS or IAD j.S. BS probably catches them. DI activation would invul through any. All pretty high risk options of course, unless there's some way to know what angle was coming next.

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All of the posts from the Q&A have been moved here because we're planning on remaking the Q&A and turning it into more of a "Sol Badguy 101"-esque thread when the game is out on consoles and we need to reserve some posts for information. If you want to ask any questions in that vein, please ask them here for now.

Edit: Beaten to the punch.
 

It's "tradition" for me to ask this question:
 
What all can you do with Dragon Install (this time around)? :D


If you're asking for individual move differences, those are mostly covered in the first post of this thread:-
 

  • Dragon Install (214214HS, DI):
    - New input, 214214HS (instead of S). Now fully strike invulnerable during start-up. DI lasts approximately 10 seconds, with no increase in duration at lower life. Tension Gain is still high, but no longer builds automatically. All specials are now buffed in DI (barring Bukkirabou ni Nageru, which is unconfirmed). DI no longer ends once knocked down. Recovery animation is like always, but still occurs if DI time runs out while knocked down. Tension drops to 0 after exiting DI. No longer in Negative Penalty status after exiting DI. No longer close to being stunned after exiting DI.
    - HSVV has massive Tension Gain on hit. Aerial version acts like ground version.
    - TO causes the opponent to bounce backwards once they hit the floor.
    - BR has a flame effect in the air and acts the same as on the ground.
    - BB causes tumbling on normal and counter hit.
    - Kudakero causes a giant explosion upon hitting the ground. Explosion reaches behind Sol, allowing it to cross-up.
    - RS causes a giant explosion upon hitting the ground.
    - GV travels extremely fast, creating flame pillars as it travels. Deals more than twice as many hits as normal, causing massive GB+ on block. Ends with a large, rising uppercut that can be followed up on hit. Can PRC.
    - Fafnir deals up to 3 hits.
    - P.B.B. is an unblockable, dashing command grab in the air. Pushes Sol far back after connecting, allowing for safe exiting of DI.
    - TR first hit is similar to regular version (minus the cinematic), but the second is replaced with a giant, full screen blast. Does huge damage on hit, and significant chip damage on block. Blast wall sticks and can be followed up in the corner.
  • Dragon Install (air) (j.214214HS, j.DI):
    - DI now possible in air. Recovery is fast, allowing jump attacks or air options after activation. Air throw invulnerable.

Detailed move information will be added to the Sol Badguy 101 when we make it (and expanded on when we get more concrete information, presumably whenever the mook is released... or announced, for that matter) because people are more likely to read the first post of a Q&A than a general gameplay discussion thread.

If you're asking what all this entails, VR-Raiden has already talked about its practicality in a match, so allow me to expand on some of the changes.

When it says that (DI) HS Volcanic Viper has massive Tension Gain, we're talking almost 50% on that one move alone. Landing it whilst not in cooldown almost always enables a follow-up Roman Cancel into (DI) Kudakero that effectively pays for itself. In regards to (DI) Tataki Otoshi bouncing the opponent backwards: It's not a full ground bounce, but rather the small kind of bounce that occurs during a plummeting knockdown. This simply means that outside of the corner, Sol can end Dragon Install with (DI) HS Volcanic Viper with little risk of being punished during his recovery animation.

Now as for (DI) Grand Viper, the GB+ on block is so absurd that it cranks the R.I.S.C. Level to maximum from a neutral start so long as you get max hits (although an opponent is probably not going to stand up for the uppercut regardless). The flame pillars that emerge during (DI) Grand Viper also have a hitbox, making it no longer entirely free to being jumped over.

P.B.B. is a new move, and its main use seems to be for safely exiting Dragon Install at the end of a combo. It is currently a little underutilised because most players that activate DI tend to do it on the spur of the moment rather than as a confirmation, and it's kind of hard to plan how you end DI if you can't even guarantee the hit, let alone the length of the combo. In theory, it would be the optimal ender after (DI) Tyrant Rave ver.Beta in the corner, as we know that such a combo is at least possible.

Speaking of which, (DI) Tyrant Rave ver.Beta is now the world ender, especially in HELL FIRE status. You can even get a free follow-up in the corner provided the combo wasn't too long up until that point. Because the new wall stick turns into a slump if they hit the ground (treating the opponent as crouching), you can even land a dashing 5D into a Homing Jump or Homing Dash.

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I just saw the changes, boy that looks sweet.  Sweet enough to just do it for fun! (Yeah yeah, go for the kill and all that...)

 

I'm so glad they took Negative Penalty, Knockdown, and Stun values out of the equation though.  That was cramping Sol's style.

 

Also, is it just me or is the fact that they changed the input from  :d:  :db:  :b:  :d:  :db:  :b:  :s:  to  :d:  :db:  :b:  :d:  :db:  :b:  :h:  proof alone that he's gotten stronger? :D

 

Maybe his ultimate form will be something like  :d:  :db:  :b:  :d:  :db:  :b:  :d:  :db:  :b:  :d:  :db:  :b:  :du:

 

And also, is it true that DI Grand Viper is the classic AC body blow version?  (i.e. reasonably safe on block).  I know he doesn't have clean hits anymore but still.

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I think the main purpose of the input change was to stop people doing accidental Grand Vipers.

As for (DI) Grand Viper, no, it still ends in a Volcanic Viper-esque rising uppercut (also, there's nothing "reasonably safe" about AC/AC+R Grand Viper's -21 on block, I think the term you're looking for is "comparatively less unsafe"). However, the opponent is launched so high on hit that you can still land and then combo off it if the gravity's not too high. 5K has been confirmed to work, I can't recall if anything else has been.

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The question of how to deal with Axl stance attacks came up recently, and I happened to come across this today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wav_eppzYVM&t=3m27s

 

Sol appears to punish the low chain on block with a CH 2P. We don't know if it only punished because Axl attempted to cancel to another chain, but it certainly punishes fast so I wouldn't be surprised if it's guaranteed. It's also a normal block so whatever Axl did left him at at least -5. That means on IB you might even be able to CH 2D for a full screen knockdown.

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Looks pretty guaranteed to me. That stance must be CH state the whole time. That means you get whacky shit like HeavyVV>RC,runupandcombo. I guess that explains why you see people flail wildly after blocking those chains.

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I really, really hope that DI is good.  Ride The Fire is incredibly hype and I'd be very sad if we never got to hear it because DI just wasn't worth using.

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I really, really hope that DI is good.  Ride The Fire is incredibly hype and I'd be very sad if we never got to hear it because DI just wasn't worth using.

It's definitely better than ever in Xrd. You'll see it more for sure. A few posts up you can see what myself and Final Ultima recently posted about its potential use and specifics.

I've started gathering noteworthy timestamps from youtube match videos at the bottom of the first post. They'll serve as quick references for whatever someone might be wondering about. And might be useful for demonstrating stuff in the 101 thread, answering future questions, optimizing combos, matchup threads, etc. If anyone is watching vids and sees something they think is worth noting and might fit into one of the categories (or warrant a new one), go ahead and share a link.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8266-xrd-sol-badguy-gameplay-discussion/?p=770745

I've been going through the posts in this thread and adding links people have shared already, I'm about halfway at the moment.

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One thing I forgot to test at AX was GF startup.

 

Does anybody know if it's back to #R speed, as in, can you combo into it on a crouching opponent out of 5H/2H?

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So you can literally mash 4hs and grab him out of it or something? I doesn't looks easy to grab, otherwise I'm sure we would've seen that before no?

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So you can literally mash 4hs and grab him out of it or something? I doesn't looks easy to grab, otherwise I'm sure we would've seen that before no?

 

Well you do have to take hitboxes into account... it's not as if you're going to be able to grab the very edge of his fist. You just won't be able to throw it out too deep.

 

i totally forgot, fafnir can't be comboed into right? like any gatling > fafnir?

 

You cannot cancel any normal into Fafnir, correct.

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One thing I forgot to test at AX was GF startup.

 

Does anybody know if it's back to #R speed, as in, can you combo into it on a crouching opponent out of 5H/2H?

I'm pretty sure I've seen this in Xrd. I'm not sure where the video evidence is, though.

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