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[Xrd] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

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General questions for a post gunflame frc sol, what am I using to prevent jumping?  String into gunflame yrc to try and catch the jump frames?  If I don't yrc, is sol at plus after the gunflame (and which strings put him far enough to be plus), and can I prevent the jump after that?  After 2s, what is my general mixup, catch the jump with 6H like my man HOS?  can I stagger my Standing H to catch the jump?  A gunflame to catch the jump frames?

 

I'm hoping the answer isn't just air throw/5k them after they jump, because against characters with good safe air mobility, poop!

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Most players I see do GF YRC and immediately dash jump with j.HS or something similar. If the opponent does jump, they get dragged back down to the ground, otherwise you can mix up as you are falling. I also see GF YRC into Fafnir used, if Fafnir has to be FDed then I expect that would also be effective.

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Yeah, it takes a while to get used to the slowdown of the new RC system and just how much it limits the opponent's options. Goofy stuff like Fafnir YRC before hit into command grab, which would be relatively easy to counteract in older games, is really tough to deal with.

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From what I remember testing it briefly, 2S > 6HS can catch jumps on normal block, they have to air FD immediately after jumping to not get hit.

I also recall seeing GF YRC > BR, which caught the opponent out of air and brought them into the GF, which allowed followup combos. Works similarly to GF YRC > Fafnir probably, I haven't looked into it yet myself.

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The problems I was having was after the string, the yrc had to be late enough that I IMAGINE they woul still be able to get out of a fafnir, but it's quite possible I was mistaken.

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Chain-2s-6h catches jumps unless they IB the 2S and FD high jump back. This string has the added benefit of 6h yrc, dash WT being a decent throw trap if they've stopped jumping, and you can 5S abare, etc. if they don't fear the throw.

 

After 2S, 6H is about the only thing that'll catch an FD jump.

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If someone is holding up back when I do Gunflame YRC, I'll just dash up an air throw/5K/run j.P.

 

Also yeah, Gunflame YRC Fafnir is the business. You actually lose frame advantage in the corner unless the YRC is done from far out.

 

Midscreen (or corner), if you land a running dash TK Slash VV, you can land and 5K for a full combo. I was experimenting with it to stop people from mashing throw on wakeup, but unfortunately you can only do the followup combo without a counter-hit. When you CH, the opponent doesn't get blown upwards before the second hit, which makes them launch lower overall. Which means it won't really be useful as an anti-mash option, at least without meter to RC it.

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Thanks Kikuichimonji! That was a really helpful and insightful post. Will keep everything you said in mind while I grind it out in training mode and online!

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2P > 5K, 5P > 5K, 2K > 5K, 2S > 5K, 2S > cl.S, 2S > 6HS all catch holding up back.

 

I just tested Gunflame YRC against Millia (because she has high jump momentum). If she's just holding up back, she will get out of Gunflame YRC Fafnir. If she reacts to the YRC and holds up back, there is a range up close where the Gunflame will still make her block, and Fafnir will be air unblockable unless she FD's. If Gunflame doesn't make her block, Fafnir will whiff.

 

If you YRC Gunflame, immediate far S is fast enough to catch someone holding up back. Gunflame will let you combo into Bandit Bringer, yada yada.

 

Gunflame YRC > Bandit Revolver  > (Gunflame hits) only seems to work at point blank range when they react to the YRC by jumping.

 

Gunflame YRC -> 5K hits them before they can get off the ground when they react to YRC by jumping.

 

Also, Gunflame YRC from a bit further back immediately into Wild Throw is total bullshit. If you hold up, you get hit by Gunflame. If you block, you get thrown. I honestly don't know how to get out of this setup. It's great. You can also RC the Wild Throw if they take the Gunflame, which leads into a real combo.

 

You have to put yourself at frame disadvantage to actually catch a rising jump with an air throw. So stuff like 2S -> instant air throw only works if you wait for them to jump first.

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I wanted to kno how to approach the neutral game with sol

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sol_Badguy_(GGXRD)#Neutral

Could use some editing maybe, but it's a good start.

Gunflame YRC > Bandit Revolver  > (Gunflame hits) only seems to work at point blank range when they react to the YRC by jumping.

 

Also, Gunflame YRC from a bit further back immediately into Wild Throw is total bullshit. If you hold up, you get hit by Gunflame. If you block, you get thrown. I honestly don't know how to get out of this setup. It's great. You can also RC the Wild Throw if they take the Gunflame, which leads into a real combo.

I got GF YRC > BR to work at a very specific far distance last night, but yeah it's pretty specific. As far as knocking them down into GF.

I tried GF YRC > WT in the demo, but hadn't looked at it yet on release. Sounds good, it's way easier to input than it used to be imo. I guess the only escape is gold burst, dead angle, or some invulnerable reversal.

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Also, Gunflame YRC from a bit further back immediately into Wild Throw is total bullshit. If you hold up, you get hit by Gunflame. If you block, you get thrown. I honestly don't know how to get out of this setup. It's great. You can also RC the Wild Throw if they take the Gunflame, which leads into a real combo.

 

It's solid, but I'm curious how you use it. From right outside throw range I don't see any decent setups. Wake up would be the best time, but throw inv ruins it. Block set-ups that leave you close enough either lose to 2p (if it's set up with a lvl 1 or 2 attack) or require RRC (if the attack was lvl 3 like 2s). 

 

From even further back, I couldn't get  5S/2S > GF YRC, dash WT to work either. Can't YRC soon enough to dash far enough to beat the GF. Like above, though, it worked well with RRC. I'm not complaining about 50%, but feasible 25% options would be legit.

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It's solid, but I'm curious how you use it. From right outside throw range I don't see any decent setups. Wake up would be the best time, but throw inv ruins it. Block set-ups that leave you close enough either lose to 2p (if it's set up with a lvl 1 or 2 attack) or require RRC (if the attack was lvl 3 like 2s).

From even further back, I couldn't get 5S/2S > GF YRC, dash WT to work either. Can't YRC soon enough to dash far enough to beat the GF. Like above, though, it worked well with RRC. I'm not complaining about 50%, but feasible 25% options would be legit.

You use it as a hit-confirmed Wild Throw in dash pressure that is less susceptible to being mashed out on. If they jumped, you don't WT and can pursue. WT YRC fulfills a similar role, but gives you fewer options if they evade.

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Who was the primary guy behind the wiki for sol?

Mainly myself and Final Ultima, wrote based on vids and prior knowledge. I wanted to have it mostly done by release. There are surely some parts that could use editing or finishing up, any suggestions are welcome. I haven't gotten to giving it another good look since actually playing yet.

btw I like the captions Kaizen lol

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:v:

 

If you want me to give the page a general runover, I could do that now that I have some free time. I actually wanted to contribute to the bulk of the wiki, but due to a packed schedule I was unable.

 

I feel that some of the entries are a little cramped and could use some touching up, and noticed that the strategy/gameplay session is a little incomplete. I've been finding some character specific combos and going over some of the old combo thread to find that some things are a inconsistent on other characters (like throw RC, GF Feint, BB), and have been screwing around with Fafnir > BB. Maybe after I do some more labwork I can give it a touch up.

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Hey Guys,

 

I've always perused this site but have never made an account until now. I'm trying to get serious with Guilty gear for this upcoming tournament cycle, so, here I am.

I am having a huge problem with Sol's BNB where he does Rising jD to falling JD, I can't catch the timing for the life of me. Do you need a High jump install in the corner or what? I've tried the challenge mode and cant complete that either. I know this has probably been answered somewhere else, but I cant find it.

 

I'm glad to be a part of this conversation and hope to level up with you guys.

My psn is Crazy_kmikaze_88 or TheKamikazeJD

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The typical problems with Dustloop execution are generally one of the following:
 
1. You're going for the second j.D too early, or too late.
--Is the move not coming out, or just whiffing? Though you have a bit of a window here, it's not large. Not as large as it used to be in XX/#R, anyway.

-If you're pressing the button when Sol's already falling close to the ground, it's probably too late.

-If you're pressing the button after the first and you're not even hearing the move come out, it's probably too early.
 
2. You're going for the first j.D too late.
--You want to start the move pretty much as soon as you leave the ground. j.D should be connecting before the peak of your jump. If it's at the peak or after, you're not doing this fast enough.
 
3. You're letting the opponent float too high for the second j.D to connect.
--Though j.D has a decent vertical hitbox, sometimes the opponent is just too high for it to connect. If this is the case, if you're using 6P to float them, into 5H, j.D, you might be cancelling 6P into 5H too early. 6P has a fairly wide gatling window, so you want to delay the 5H afterwards for as long as possible so the opponent is as low to the ground as they'll get before you jump cancel into j.D.

 

-If they're already in the air when you're starting the combo, if you're doing it with 5K to 2H to relaunch, they might be so high up that regular reps won't work from that height, which would force you to do [j.D, j.K dj.D, fall j.D], or just [j.D dj.D, fall j.D].


-Lastly, I-no, May, and Millia are lightweights and float higher than most of the cast. Ram and potentially Elphelt also fit into this category, but their vertical hitboxes are low enough that you can generally get by with standard timing.


 
 
This is understandable, DLoop is now harder than it's ever been due to increased recovery on j.D, and thus makes the number of reps you can do significantly less than before (if you want a comparison of how stupid easy it used to be, go watch GGXX vids of PC/NOB/Daigo). High jumping is not necessary to DLoop.
 
Try each of these at a time and see if you can spot the problem.

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Man I appreciate it. It was definitely a timing thing. I am starting to understand where that window is at now. There are a lot of movement type things that are kinda blowing my mind as well. Like n the video VR posted back in Nov, I think, he did the GV JI. How in the hell does that only work using 2147 S? It seems crazy that that 7 cant be substituted to something else... I may just be over thinking... IDK.. But I appreciate the help

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